How about a Radeon R9 290X for 900 bucks?

If you’ve been following these things at all, you probably know that the Radeon R9 290X and its little brother, the R9 290, have been selling at steep premiums for a while now. The 290X’s suggested list price is $549, and the 290’s is $399. Although both cards have been relatively easy to find in stock at online retailers, they’ve been going for something like $200 above list.

The problem is one of supply and demand, of course. Resellers are raising prices in the face of scarcity.

One trend has created a major distortion in the market on the supply side: crypto-coin miners have evidently been snapping up high-end Radeons like mad in order to build mining farms. Today’s Radeons happen to be unusually good at crunching the make-work algorithms used by coins like Litecoin, and that makes them essentially money-printing machines. As long as the power consumption and other costs work out right, it’s possible to reap a calculated profit by mining coins with these cards. That profit can be converted from virtual coins into very real money, and as you might imagine, that’s made these Radeons hot commodities.

In fact, they’re such hot commodities that R9 290X prices have hit a new high-water mark at Newegg, as indicated in the screenshot above. Multiple versions of the R9 290X are in stock, but they’re now priced at a penny shy of 900 bucks. There are a couple of cards priced slightly lower, including an MSI at $849.99, but that’s it. The marginally slower R9 290 is selling for between $650 and $750. Even the R9 280X, which is almost identical to the two-plus-year-old Radeon HD 7970 and is supposed to sell for $300, is going for $550-580 right now.

That’s… just a bit above list.

The e-tailer has placed limits of three to six cards per customer on most of these products, which at least suggests that bulk purchases of 290 and 290X cards may have been depleting stocks.

The demand for Radeon R9 cards is definitely healthy, but the unfortunate part of this situation is that gamers have been effectively priced out of the market for high-end Radeons. If you’re looking for this class of graphics card, the GeForce GTX 780 is a much better deal. It’s selling at around its $500 suggested price. But fans of AMD and gamers who, for whatever reason, would tend to prefer AMD’s latest offerings are faced with an unhappy choice.

In situations like this one where graphics card prices are being buffeted by the forces of supply and demand, we often have trouble discerning how much of the blame to assign to strong demand and how much to chalk up to poor supply. Several years ago, scant supply of 40-nm GPUs from TSMC made both AMD and Nvidia GPUs scarce. At other times, one of the GPU makers has simply missed on its estimates of demand for its latest products, leading to poor availability and a shift in market share to the other team. Supply-side problems do happen. However, the GPU makers are very reluctant to share hard numbers about the quantities of chips they are shipping, both for competitive reasons and because of SEC regulations against that sort of disclosure in the wrong forum.

That’s probably why our inquiries to AMD about the current situation have been met with not particularly enlightening answers, like "supply is healthy, but demand is very strong." Who knows what that statement means without context? With that said, we do have some sources familiar with the situation, and they’ve indicated that the monthly quantity of new Hawaii GPUs coming into the market is relatively solid, if not spectacular, for this class of graphics chip.

If true, then the lion’s share of the blame for the hefty mark-ups on high-end Radeons falls on the demand side of the equation.

Of course, AMD has the option of ordering much larger volumes of Hawaii chips, if it can secure the additional wafers from TSMC. Those chips likely wouldn’t reach the market for several months at least, but AMD could pull the trigger at any time on an unusually large production run.

The trouble with doing so is that pretty much everyone observing the crypto-mining phenomenon expects the bubble to burst at some point. If and when it does, those coin miners who have assembled large farms will undoubtedly be looking to sell their graphics cards. AMD could be left holding big inventories of GPUs while a glut of slightly used high-end Radeons floods the secondary market via eBay and the like. That could be a financially damaging outcome, especially for a company in the midst of attempting a dramatic turnaround.

I’m sure AMD is enjoying its sales success, but my sense is that it recognizes the risk involved in its current position and will probably be fairly cautious when making forecasts and placing orders for GPUs. The firm seems to recognize that gamers, not coin miners, are its core customers.

The question is: what can it do to appease those core customers, when they have effectively been priced out of the market? Here’s hoping the folks at AMD have some creative options in the works, because the present situation isn’t great for gamers.

Comments closed
    • Elijafire
    • 5 years ago

    Great assessment, but you forgot the market that is made up of gamers+miners. Those folks are perfectly satisfied I imagine.

    • anotherengineer
    • 6 years ago

    The gigabyte card is a bit cheaper in Canada at about $700, or about $630 US after the exchange rate.

    [url<]http://products.ncix.com/detail/gigabyte-radeon-r9-290x-oc-a0-93519.htm[/url<] I guess Newegg really is raping it's customers. The cheapest one seems to be a club at $630 cnd or about $567 US [url<]http://products.ncix.com/detail/club3d-radeon-r9-290x-royalking-6d-94194.htm[/url<]

    • Billstevens
    • 6 years ago

    The only sad part about this whole thing is that the 290 is a pretty damn good gaming card for what would have been a very reasonable price compared to competitive cards from Nvidia. Instead, mining demand has completely re-purposed the cards for a really lame function.

    I really like the idea of crypto currency but I hate the current concept of mining. Encouraging thousands of people to burn power and resources to compute meaningless values in order to obtain currency is an absurd waste of resources.

    People are essentially getting money for letting their computers burn power at full load. Primecoin is at least trying to do something about this issue but its one of many alt-coins and not the most popular. Overall this is a terrible reason to stress a power grid and is socially irresponsible at best.

    • Prestige Worldwide
    • 6 years ago

    I think this was just a last-ditch effort to make as much money as they could off of remaining stock before all the 290x cards sold out.

    That’s right, according to Fudo, the R9-290x is sold out in the USA, or at least completely sold out at NewEgg.

    [url<]http://fudzilla.com/home/item/33962-radeon-r9-r290x-sold-out-in-the-us[/url<]

    • Choz
    • 6 years ago

    Meanwhile in Australia Umart have a 290X for $635 AU which is about $575 US. Good to see that for once its not us getting ripped off by markups!

    • Billstevens
    • 6 years ago

    Litecoin mining by the time summer 2014 arrives should no longer be viable compared to ASIC miners soon to be released if they remain on schedule and can meet early demand. So the ATI buying may slow down for farmers waiting to buy the ASIC miners.

    However I am not convinced farmers will sell their graphics card farms. They may simple save them for other alt-coins so that early GPU mining is open to them on a younger currency. As long as Bitcoins value stays strong there is merit in mining alt-coins.

    • marvelous
    • 6 years ago

    All AMD cards have gone up even 7000 series

    • Cyco-Dude
    • 6 years ago

    fortunately, the 7000 series cards are in stock and at good prices. get them while you can…close to the current line in terms of performance, but at a fraction of the cost.

    • moose17145
    • 6 years ago

    Did anyone else pick up a R9 290 when they were 400 bucks and are feeling absolutely great about their choice to do so?

      • JustAnEngineer
      • 6 years ago

      I bought mine on November 4.

      • UnfriendlyFire
      • 6 years ago

      People were like, “Oh, those new GPUs will be cheaper in a few months…”

    • itachi
    • 6 years ago

    I swear this whole bitcoin/cryptocurrency stuff is weird.

    Some people must be cashing like crazy, to order dozens of r9 290x at once.. how much can you make with a single r9 290x ??

    And I heard france was one if not the top electricity supplier so they should have low prices :o, and yet the prices aren’t moving here..

    • Phartindust
    • 6 years ago

    Time for AMD to start playing hardball with the gougers.

    The conversation should go something like this.

    “Get your prices down to where they should be or:
    1.We’ll raise your price to take away your illicit profits.
    2. If that doesn’t work we’ll place your orders at the back of the line, and fill them when we have extra stock.
    We’ll sell to more honest retailers first. You know, the ones not hurting us and our customers.”

      • PrincipalSkinner
      • 6 years ago

      I don’t think they got so much control over the retail. I’d love to see them try get things in order though.

        • UnfriendlyFire
        • 6 years ago

        AMD could raise the price of the GPUs that they sell, but I’m pretty sure the contracts that they signed have some restrictions on the price setting.

        Newegg and other retailers are obviously going to oppose AMD’s attempts at increasing the manufacter’s price of the GPUs.

        • Phartindust
        • 6 years ago

        They set the price that they sell to retailers, so they have control over that. And shipping contracts expire after they are filled. First run contracts should be nearing fulfillment I’d think. And when they do, then AMD is in a position to effect changes.

      • Majiir Paktu
      • 6 years ago

      Illicit? I don’t think you understand retail.

        • Phartindust
        • 6 years ago

        Oh, I understand retail – get as much as you can for as long as you can get away with it. Doesn’t make it right. And right now this certainly isn’t right. At some point it becomes gouging. Gouging is wrong, hence illicit. And at the prices we have seen for these cards, I think that is the proper term.

        AMD really didn’t need this right now. They released a great card at a great price point ( yes, yes heat and noise with the reference cooler blah blah blah). And now the target audience can’t afford or justify getting one.

          • BIF
          • 6 years ago

          Gouging is subjective, and isn’t even well defined by our laws.

          “I can’t describe gouging, but I sure as hell know it when I see it!”

    • lethal
    • 6 years ago

    So, whats more profitable for AMD, trying to sell those cards or not selling them and plugging them to make virtual money :p?

    • YukaKun
    • 6 years ago

    Did you guys team up with Anand to post this or someone paid from the back to make this information a very cheap jab at the 290X?

      • Kougar
      • 6 years ago

      Cheap… haha, I get it!

      • snook
      • 6 years ago

      cheap jab? this is a basic, these cards are supposed to be X price, they are currently at XXX price. I am that rabid AMD fan, but these prices are way to high to even consider. the reason: 780Ti ~$699 at launch, the price Nvidia set. the 290X ~$699-$899 or easily $100-$250+!! over the price AMD set at launch. the draw for me was great price with great performance from AMD, that is a vapor now, even i can see at the same price the 780Ti is the real winner.

      I not an Nvidia fan. but, I’m less of a fan my favorite company letting others gank me for every penny they can. in about two weeks, the prices will either be back to MSRP or the 780Ti is the ONLY choice.

      this actually makes me angry. that 780Ti is going to be great for years and I wont upgrade for a while after either…AMD was somehow able to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

        • YukaKun
        • 6 years ago

        I was just pointing out the fact that Anandtech published basically the same article/information about the 290X.

        I do not believe in coincidences in the tech world.

          • snook
          • 6 years ago

          I misunderstood, apologies. I’m still amazed the prices are this crazy.

          • Kougar
          • 6 years ago

          Since you hadn’t noticed by now, most of the topics covered under the Anandtech Pipeline tend to get brief news coverage on Tech Report as well. It kind of happens when both sites serve mostly the same reader audience. Just as other websites in turn often pick up and cover news that was posted on these sites, or even Tech Report & Anandtech reporting from the same Digitimes’ article.

          I don’t see why if Anandtech posted it why the readership of Tech Report wouldn’t also be interested in said bit of news. Particularly when GPUs are a big deal and prices of $900 tend to outright negate any sort of GPU recommendations both sites may have given to buying R9 290 & 290 cards in the first place.

      • travbrad
      • 6 years ago

      Bigfoot paid them, while sitting in the studio they used to fake the moon landing.

    • cynan
    • 6 years ago

    Or how about not shopping at large online retailers who seem to be bent on ruining their reputation as having top notch serve and pricing that they’ve spent years establishing.

    There are plenty of places to get a 290x at around $600 (eg, [url=http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=93754&vpn=R9-290X-EDBD&manufacture=XFX<]here[/url<] or [url=http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1024073-REG/visiontek_900654_radeon_r9_290x_4gb.html<]here[/url<] or [url=http://www.shopblt.com/item/asus-r9290x-dc2oc-4gd5-radeon-r9-290x-pcie/asus_r9290xdc2oc4gd5.html<] here[/url<]). Yes, still a bit overpriced, but not this $900 garbage. Stuff like this makes me never want to shop at Newegg again.

      • James296
      • 6 years ago

      still use Newegg to setup comp builds but I go else where to get the parts.

    • Krogoth
    • 6 years ago

    Everybody is getting mad!

      • Srsly_Bro
      • 6 years ago

      While you remain unimpressed!

    • Vrock
    • 6 years ago

    How about “no.”

    • Geonerd
    • 6 years ago

    At these prices, fabbing Hawaiian Island chips is like picking money from trees.
    I’d think that AMD could afford to pay TSMC a hefty expedite fee. Knock the chips out in a few weeks and get the boards to the market ASAP, making a nice profit along the way.

    (Given that these prices have been around for some while, it seems this ain’t gonna happen…)

      • Voldenuit
      • 6 years ago

      [quote<]At these prices, fabbing Hawaiian Island chips is like picking money from trees.[/quote<] AMD is unlikely to be benefitting from this price elasticity. The price gouging happens at the retailer end first. As others have mentioned, it is an extremely risky situation for AMD as when (not if) the cryptocoin bubble bursts, the demand/supply cuve for GCN cards could invert very suddenly.

        • yuhong
        • 6 years ago

        [quote<]AMD is unlikely to be benefitting from this price elasticity. The price gouging happens at the retailer end first.[/quote<] But they could benefit from the increased volume, which is what parent was talking about.

      • dodozoid
      • 6 years ago

      Well, you are wrong… this pricing bullshit only happens in the USA and Canada.
      My part of Europe have been spared. It`s all fault of your greedy retailers.

      Edit: this is a reaction on Geonerd, not Voldenuit

      • Novuake
      • 6 years ago

      You do not seem to realize how long “fabbing” takes. In the week(s)long process the cryptocurrency mining could have fallen flat. Then what? Problems for AMD, and very likely they will not come back from it.

    • Bensam123
    • 6 years ago

    lol, Nvidia for once is the better ‘deal’. XD

    Although you can mine coins with these… which will essentially pay them off, so maybe Nvidia is still the worst deal… more so if you look at long term investments. XD

    If you really are hard up for AMD, the 270x’s and lower haven’t been touched, due to density. You can buy one or two of them for relatively cheap and they still mine coins. Just no one is going to build mining rigs with them.

    I’m sure AMD isn’t going to increase supply in order to meet with demand here, as a miner myself I doubt this is sustainable for more then a few months… Then again I thought I’d see the market prices starting to plummet for coins right now and it would peter out in the next two months, yet that’s not the case.

      • shank15217
      • 6 years ago

      Don’t forget power usage, mining with these video cards will definitely be felt by your energy bill and if you do it at an institution it’s considered a felony because you are essentially stealing power.

        • Bensam123
        • 6 years ago

        Pretty sure everyone that mines knows about power costs and they don’t amount to much verse the profit.

    • UnfriendlyFire
    • 6 years ago

    Just a question, would it be profitable for a R290X or R290 GPU owner to sell their GPU, or use it for bitcoin mining and cut back on gaming?

    I know someone who bought two of those before the prices became absurdly high. She’s tempted to sell those GPUs.

      • Firestarter
      • 6 years ago

      Depends on whether she can get similarly performing GPUs from Nvidia at lower prices, and how big that price difference is. Any money gained from making that change should be weighed against how much she could be making by using those GPUs to mine scrypt-coins. Is it worth selling if you can get the same money over a few weeks by running a miner when you’re not using the GPUs?

      • dragontamer5788
      • 6 years ago

      If you learn the market, it will be more profitable to keep the GPU.

      But that involves doing cost-analysis between BTC, LTC, DOGE, and the host of different coins. Then, you convert the coins between each other and keep track of mining pools. (Join the wrong one, and you may [url=http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mining-Pool-Give-Me-Coins-Hacked-10-000-Litecoins-Stolen-419921.shtml<]lose all your money[/url<]) Or as you turn [url=http://invezz.com/news/forex/8816-forex-news-btc-usd-bitstamp-joins-mtgox-in-suspending-withdrawals<]BTC -> USD, you may run into some issues[/url<]. The cryptocoin world is still in its infancy, not very many people know much about it yet. There is money to be found, but not without its risks.

        • UnfriendlyFire
        • 6 years ago

        She’s not familiar with actually running coin-mining.

        I tried to setup a bitcoin mining operation on my N61Jq laptop (with a glorious Radeon 5730m) for fun, and gave up after having no success with even properly running the software. So I can’t help her if she runs into problems.

          • SCR250
          • 6 years ago

          Then the advice should probably be “take the money”, get an equivalent Nvidia setup for now with brand new cards (or save more by buying used on eBay) and if she so desires in the future to go again with the R290X when prices return to earth she should be able to sell those Nvidia cards.

          Recent sold prices on eBay put the used R290x at $650. So selling the pair for $1300 would net after eBay, PayPal, Shipping and insurance costs: 10% in eBay selling fees ($130) along with 2.9% + 30 cents for PayPal ($38) + shipping costs ($19.65 USPS Priority Large Flat Rate Box + Signature Confirmation) and $16.60 for USPS insurance so expect to clear about $1095.75 on the sale.

      • Bensam123
      • 6 years ago

      Do they want to just play games or do they want to make money? I think that pretty much answers the question and isn’t really something any of us can answer… If she wants to just play games, sell the cards, buy some 780s… If she wants to make money, play games and mine over night.

        • ozzuneoj
        • 6 years ago

        To take this one step further… if she doesn’t want to make money off of them at all, just keep them and play games with them. If you can spend $1000+ on graphics cards, you probably make enough money to make the few hundred dollars in possible profit (after fees) seem rather insignificant compared to the risk of getting ripped off and wasting a bunch of time.

    • smilingcrow
    • 6 years ago

    Ironically is there the possibility that this helps nVidia more than AMD?
    Say AMD are supply constrained so not in a position to gain from extra sales.
    This means that many gamers are going to look at Radeon pricing and even if they would rather buy AMD unless they are rabid fanboys they will buy nVidia as they offer much better value at current inflated prices
    This assumes that all the extra profits are going to the middlemen.
    Capitalism can be weird like that.

    • HisDivineOrder
    • 6 years ago

    AMD just can’t get a break, can it? Even when it’s selling out its cards, it’s selling them out in probably the worst possible way. They aren’t making any extra money per card for all the upcharging (as far as anyone can tell). They’re getting slammed in the media for the pricing. Consumers are reading reviews of “great value priced deals” and then finding cards that are almost twice the cost now, which makes people run screaming to the other team that was only a little more (780 vs 290) to begin with. Now nVidia is beating AMD in the price wars.

    All these cards will eventually get shunted back into the used market right when any solution AMD could devise to increase supply might take effect, which would then have stores sitting on massive amounts of inventory because they can’t compete with coin miners who got more than enough from the cards pre-bust to sell them at massive discounts. Especially when they sat there and ran the cards hard for days and days in parallel quad-crossfire configs for days on end, so their life expectancy is somewhat reduced as it is.

    Amazon and Newegg get all the crazy profit, but AMD gets the blame for the pricing. The miners get their coins and their profits, but the used market will get cards that were pushed to the limits continuously for months and then were resold. When they fail as any hardware will fail after continuous use it’s not designed for (consumer cards aren’t designed to be run continuously so hard), AMD will get the blame for that, too.

    Now toss in the fact that 290 and 290X are two of the few cards that actually can run Mantle or TrueAudio, two standards AMD needs to take off in a hurry. Except gamers aren’t buying the cards that have these technologies in them because people are buying them for non-gaming purposes. So the standards aren’t proliferating and won’t until the used hard and put away hot cards get resold eventually. If they ever do.

    In the meantime, AMD’s efforts to convince publishers to jump on board their audio technology and their new API look like a waste of time when they’re focused around cards few to no enthusiast actually can buy now at reasonable pricing.

    Elsewhere, nVidia–the company that just announced Gamestream to unify all kinds of physics operations into one piece of kit–is selling gangbusters of cards at the prices they promised.

    I think the 290 and 290X is the last time they’ll release a compute-capable card that is not crippled in regards to non-gaming purposes. AMD is getting royally reamed by this.

      • yuhong
      • 6 years ago

      [quote<]I think the 290 and 290X is the last time they'll release a compute-capable card that is not crippled in regards to non-gaming purposes.[/quote<] Well, AMD probably wouldn't want to cripple the cards this way. They promoted the GPGPU power in Kaveri last month when they launched it, and they mentioned mining as an example in the presentation.

      • NovusBogus
      • 6 years ago

      AMD is perhaps the most noble company that ever existed. Clearly their poor performance over the last few years was intentional, because they knew the world is not ready for their technology and would tear itself apart if they brought their full power to bear. Unfortunately they had a momentary relapse because the elders didn’t get a chance to explain to some of the younger executives why they do what they must.

        • SCR250
        • 6 years ago

        [quote<]AMD is perhaps the most noble company that ever existed.[/quote<] That is sarcasm right?

      • shank15217
      • 6 years ago

      You know AMD can easily solve this by releasing a card specifically for litecoin mining, suddenly there would be little reason to buy 290s and those prices would come crashing down. You assume that mining is a fad, what if you are wrong? What if this is a real killer app for GPUs? I would hold judgement for a few months, AMD is carving out a market where it has essentially no competition. In the meantime features like mantle and HSA are still supported by their APUs and mid range cards. If these cards do finally become obsolete, they will available at dirt cheap prices online in the used market.

        • UnfriendlyFire
        • 6 years ago

        AMD should’ve known that having high integer performance would get the coin-miners’ attention.

          • Firestarter
          • 6 years ago

          AMD should’ve predicted the massive BTC/LTC price hike in November 2013, right. If they could’ve predicted that, they wouldn’t be wasting their time designing GPUs, they would be making bank with investing.

        • travbrad
        • 6 years ago

        You make it sound like they can just create a new GPU at will. GPUs take a long time to design and work out all the problems.

        Litecoin values will probably crash before AMD could re-design their architecture specifically for a litecoin mining card, work out all the bugs, tape-out, and then wait for TSMC to actually manufacture some, send to partners, partners send to retail.

        When you buy a GPU you are usually buying something that started being developed YEARS ago.

      • squeeb
      • 6 years ago

      All valid points, but Mantle is supported by 7 series cards too.

      • Elijafire
      • 5 years ago

      They should release a card specifically for mining along side it.

    • Sialic
    • 6 years ago

    My thoughts to this article, are:

    1.) I am happy that AMD is selling so many cards that they cannot keep up with demand. As the underdog in seemingly pretty much everything, I root for them.

    2.) These prices are absurd.

    3.) As a gamer, I cannot justify buying an AMD card right now. This causes great cognitive dissonance between 1.) and 2.). I.e., I would love to upgrade my system with a 290 or 290X; however, it is so expensive that I might as well buy an Nvidia card. In analogy form, it seems like: Intel is to AMD on the CPU front as AMD is to Nvidia on the GPU front… or maybe I have that reversed!?!

    I do not really see this as a positive for AMD in the long run; and I really, really hope that AMD has a solution to this problem going forward.

    In essence, if you were a mid to high end gamer in today’s GPU market, would you buy an AMD or Nvidia GPU?

      • jihadjoe
      • 6 years ago

      It’s positive for AMD.
      They sell all their cards, the high-end ones even.
      Much-needed money flows, R&D continues.

      It’s not positive for non-mining AMD fans.

    • glacius555
    • 6 years ago

    Insane! I can buy these cards cheaper here in Europe, R9 290X with improved cooling for $600 + shipping!! Quite many in stock..

    I guess our energy prices are too high to drive the prices higher.

    • NeelyCam
    • 6 years ago

    What is it exactly that makes AMD GPUs better for cryptomining than NVidia GPUs? And more importantly, what would from NVidia to make their next ones “crypto-competitive”?

    I can already see it: in a year, all CPUs are bought at horribly elevated prices by cryptocoin speculators, and gamers can’t buy discrete GPUs anymore because they are horrendously expensive

      • dragontamer5788
      • 6 years ago

      Its an architectural issue. AMD decided to make integer operations more efficient, NVidia did not. Integer operations are not commonly used in graphics programs, but are commonly used in crypto-coin mining.

      [url<]http://www.extremetech.com/computing/153467-amd-destroys-nvidia-bitcoin-mining[/url<] Its a simple matter of having integer units. NVidia is entirely focused on Floating-Point operations, and double-precision and integer computation suffers as a result. But since there is less circuitry on board, NVidia GPUs likely use less power for being a bit more specialized. AMD certainly didn't "bet" on cryptocoins. It just so happened that their cards were better designed for the task. Its likely AMD's HSA and "general compute" strategy paid off here. AMD took a risk in making a more generic card with otherwise useless circuitry. NVidia focused their cards entirely on the Gaming market. They aren't as good at general computation as AMD cards are (and by design. Gamers don't use integer units. Its wasted space)

        • NeelyCam
        • 6 years ago

        Ok; thanks for the clarification, to all of you (dtamer,tipoo, chuckie). I <3 you all – valentines day or not

        So, since integer operations mean crazy demand and high prices, what if NVidia decides to jump to that gravy train as well? What if both AMD and NVidia starts targeting cryptofreaks because that’s where the money is?

        That’s my point. Gamers are bad customers. They are whiny, and obsessed with FPS/$. The Cryptofolks are willing to pay way more for the cards. Why should AMD/NVidia cater to gamers?

          • briskly
          • 6 years ago

          The cryptocurrency market is extremely volatile and ASIC miners loom on the horizon, even if LTC is designed to be more resistant to this than BTC. Even if the Litecoin bubble doesn’t implode, the demand for cards will as they lose money during operation. At least those whiny gamers are a predictable enough market, if not especially high margin.

          • BobbinThreadbare
          • 6 years ago

          That’s why both Nvidia and AMD have been trying to get the GPU compute market going for years now. AMD is just more heavily invested (since APUs are the only way they can compete with Intel).

          • dragontamer5788
          • 6 years ago

          As others have said, it is too late for cryptocoins. ASICs have already won the Bitcoin battle, and LTC and DOGE will soon move to ASICs as well. No one knows how long cryptocoins will last… and GPU-based cryptocoin mining will certainly meet its demise sooner.

          But both NVidia and AMD have just different bets on the GPU Compute market. The NVidia 780 and Titan remain faster than the R9 290X in [url=http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7457/59312.png<]Single Precision Floating Point computations[/url<]. This makes NVidia cards better at tasks like Folding at home (a chemistry simulation)... and likely a better card for the Weather-prediction market as well. And the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_%28supercomputer%29<]supercomputer market[/url<] orders ~20,000 GPUs at a time. So weather-prediction and physics simulation is big money as well. Ultimately, it is very hard to predict what the next major computational task is. But the future GPU that does it better will become the winner.

      • tipoo
      • 6 years ago

      Here’s the long story, but yes, in short it’s because AMD decided to care more about integer performance on their GPUs than Nvidia did, since GPU workloads are mostly Floating point and not integer. This article is great. Even the GTX Titan is destroyed by 100 dollar AMD cards.
      [url<]http://www.extremetech.com/computing/153467-amd-destroys-nvidia-bitcoin-mining[/url<]

        • dragontamer5788
        • 6 years ago

        Ha ha, I ninja’d you with the same article!

      • chuckula
      • 6 years ago

      AMD wins because GCN includes a bunch of integer operations that NVidia didn’t bother to implement.

      Nvidia’s cards tend to do better in HPC workloads that are basically all floating-point, but NVidia’s CUDA cores aren’t quite as general-purpose as GCN cores.

    • lilbuddhaman
    • 6 years ago

    I bought a 770 and am loving it. I have two retired 6870’s (one modded to hell and one sitting on ebay right now). Goodbye AMD, your 3 generation long reign in my systems has ended.

    • jdaven
    • 6 years ago

    I don’t know who is going to benefit the most from the inflated prices but if it is the OEMs (Sapphire, HIS, etc.) then I hope they invest the money into research developing better cooling solution. If it is AMD, I hope they invest the money into research into make better GPUs and CPUs. In either case, we the consumer win regardless of the source of the current demand.

    • sschaem
    • 6 years ago

    The 280x start at over 500$ now at newegg. No game bundle.

    AMD was unable to manage this situation in the past 3 month, and that’s too bad.
    its possible AMD got so scared after their past GF waffer agreement, that they under allocated and to manage cash flow ordered a small amount with no guaranties to up production. I wouldnt put that past AMD deal ‘negotiators’

    AMD a few weeks ago said revenue will fall off a clif this quarter (that’s wall street jargon) even with this core business craze. So clearly AMD is not able to profit from making their cards double in price for consumers… This might actually hurt them in the long run, but its all good news for nvidia.

    AMD got all the stars aligned to kick butts.. yet they can’t make the right decision to move ahead 🙁

      • kc77
      • 6 years ago

      I think the mistake they made is that they made the card too appealing for the Bit Mining crowd. The problem is that there isn’t anything they can do about it now. They should have reduced the compute performance on the 290x and then released something in the FirePro line at a much higher price. Instead they have a card they can’t produce fast enough due to the value they priced the card at originally.

    • albundy
    • 6 years ago

    lol, it aint even worth half that! but an awesome way for newegg to rake in on the 1000% markup.

    • jokinin
    • 6 years ago

    It doesn’t seem to affect Europe so much, I’ve made a quick research, and you can find a custom cooled Gigabyte 290X for 459€ and that same ASUS for 568€, including taxes. Not that i’m going to replace my 7870 anytime soon, but those aren’t so expensive as there.

    • kamikaziechameleon
    • 6 years ago

    Nvidia might price cut just to gain that market share.

      • JosiahBradley
      • 6 years ago

      Why when it can milk prices between your only two choices? Also nVidia already has the dominate market share, it’s a huge company compared to AMD.

        • ALiLPinkMonster
        • 6 years ago

        Yeah, they’re LOVING this right now. Once this crypto-coin thing finally goes away and AMD can stabilize its normal market, we’ll hopefully see a price war. That’s the good to take away from all this.

    • jthh
    • 6 years ago

    I am partly to blame. I have two Asus R9 280x on extreme backorder at bhphotovideo.com. They are listed as “pre-release shipping in small quantities.” Their customer service team keeps pushing back the in-stock dates. First it was January 17, then Feb. 1, then Feb 8. Now it’s March 1.
    I plan on seeing how the mining goes when I finally do get them. If it doesn’t work out, I’ll buy a next level Haswell chip and have me a nice gaming system.

    • Prestige Worldwide
    • 6 years ago

    Cheapest 290 I could find in Canada was $550 on a weekly special sale at NCIX. I’ve seen 290’s going for $660 in recent weeks.

    Don’t even get me started on 290x prices, the market is a joke right now. The cheapest they seem to go for is $700 and I’ve seen them well into the 800s. This kind of gouging is just ridiculous, and frankly insulting to any loyal newegg / ncix customer, considering the MSRP is $549.99.

    Even 280x are selling for wayyyyyy more than they should be worth this late in their lifecycle. The thing is an ancient relic in technology terms since things move at such a fast pace in this industry, yet I’ve seen it selling for way over $400 quite often in recent months.

    It would be a terrible time for anybody who is considering making a GPU purchase.

    I have a friend in Switzerland who bought a 290x at a seemingly non-inflated price, apparently the coin-whores are more prevalent in North America.

    /rage

      • yuhong
      • 6 years ago

      >apparently the coin-whores are more prevalent in North America.
      Probably due to the electricity prices.

        • itachi
        • 6 years ago

        and how much is the prices of electricity over there ? I think last time I checked here in france it was fairly cheap.. can’t really remember the exact price though maybe something like 0.11 euro per kw/h average ?

        Not even sure..

          • Prestige Worldwide
          • 6 years ago

          Electricity prices are fairly cheap in Montreal, would be a very good place to set up a mine. We have such cheap electricity here because Quebec has a virtually limitless supply of hydroelectric dams powering the vast majority of the province.

          [url<]http://www.hydroquebec.com/publications/en/comparison_prices/pdf/comp_2013_en.pdf[/url<] In Montreal, the average price is 6.87 cents (Canadian) per kWh based on monthly usage of 1000 kWh. For context, NYC is 21.75, San Fran 22.94, Detroit 15.54, Toronto 12.48, Chicago 11.43, Houston 10.10, Miami 9.46, Vancouver 8.91, Seattle 8.97. So I guess it wouldn't be out of the question to buy a 290 and mine back the inflated price by selling these derpy coins, but my principles are telling me not to overpay for said product.

            • anotherengineer
            • 6 years ago

            You have to be careful about Ontario rates, we have off prime at 6.8cents semi peak 10.8 i think and peak rate 12.8 cents.

            Then there is delivery, debt retirement, and a few others then HST.

            My hydro bill here in Ontario after everything is included is about 18.6 cents/kw.hr

        • njoydesign
        • 6 years ago

        well, look at Russia, where electricity is dirt cheap – 290X is widely available and the cheapest one I could find is 20500 RUB, which is $585. That’s not too bad. Most are sold for about 22000RUB though, which is about $630

        I think it’s more the fact that americans are much more into this mining business and regular gamers suffer as result. I guess you could buy one from an european shop and even with shipping it over the pond you will still get it cheaper than when buying it in the US

      • Deanjo
      • 6 years ago

      The local retailer here in Saskatoon was clearing out Visiontek 4G 290’s for $462.52 CAD.

      [url<]http://otvtech.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=355&vmcchk=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=240[/url<]

    • derFunkenstein
    • 6 years ago

    What would be too bad is if AMD is still selling the dies to manufacturers at their initial prices – the only people not making any extra money on this nonsense is likely AMD themselves.

      • demani
      • 6 years ago

      And this is the problem- I don’t think they are enjoying this at all as they see Newegg making major profits on this card, while AMD is still squeezed to match Nvidia pricing on the wholesale side. It’s absolutely crazy. Hell, even the card manufacturers probably are getting shut out, so its ONLY Newegg and Amazon (and other retailers) who are making money on this.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 6 years ago

        You’re probably right; I’m just making all kinds of assumptions I guess. I’m assuming that AMD is contracted to the card makers for certain pricing, but equally assumed (perhaps mistakenly) that the card makers might not be. I hope it’s someone other than the eTailers making money on it.

    • DPete27
    • 6 years ago

    [quote<]...that makes them essentially money-printing machines...That profit can be converted from virtual coins into very real money...[/quote<] 1) Is there anybody actually paying "real money" for Litecoins with all this talk of bubble-burst? 2) What kind of profits are we talking per card on average? Obviously that has to do with energy costs, but are these people making thousands of dollars? Hundreds? Tens of thousands?

      • derFunkenstein
      • 6 years ago

      Early miners made a virtual mint. Nowadays I think it’s a loser unless you’re going dedicated ASICs, especially with garbage like this going on, sending coin prices plummeting.:

      [url<]http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/02/new-silk-road-hit-with-2-6-million-heist-due-to-known-bitcoin-flaw/[/url<]

        • DPete27
        • 6 years ago

        Some [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlhSF602y9DSdHRneWVZcjJLWmhjaVBMTHVCR3l4eHc&usp=sharing#gid=0<]quick and dirty googling[/url<] (not sure of that table is up-to-date) suggests around $5/day of profit per R9-290X. That's roughly $1800/year/card!

          • derFunkenstein
          • 6 years ago

          That’s not bad, I guess. Certainly down from a year or so ago.

        • cegras
        • 6 years ago

        That’s a bit wrong. Bitcoin uses some crypto algorith that asics can do, but litecoin uses scrypt, which was supposed to be more robust to that sort of attack.

        [url<]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrypt[/url<]

          • dragontamer5788
          • 6 years ago

          SCrypt protects against a very different problem than Transaction Malleability. SCrypt is designed for password hashing, and is designed to protect against dictionary attacks by being slow.

          Transaction Malleability is a completely different beast, unrelated to the underlying hashing algorithm. Its like performing an XSS attack over HTTPS. AES and PKI has nothing to do with an XSS attack, its a problem with the HTML protocol with the web browser.

          Similarly, Transaction Malleability is a problem in the automated transaction confirmation protocol that is commonly used.

            • cegras
            • 6 years ago

            Hmm, I thought the whole point of altcoins using scrypt was to prevent people from hoarding coins with asic miners?

            • dragontamer5788
            • 6 years ago

            In hindsight, derFunkenstein talked about two different vulnerabilities.

            You are responding to the first vulnerability.
            I’m talking about the 2nd one.

            So there seems to be a miscommunication somewhere here. Pay me no mind…

            Yes, SCrypt is harder to implement with ASICs. But remember, ASICs are still the best, just not as ridiculously overpowered as before. SHA256 ASICs are ~700x better than a GPU (SHA256 == Bitcoin)

            Scrypt ASICs look like they’re “only” 20x better than a GPU. They significantly make it harder to make an ASIC, but ASICs will eventually be the way to go anyway.

            • cegras
            • 6 years ago

            Thx for the clarification friend.

            • chuckula
            • 6 years ago

            From what I’ve seen of SCrypt an ASIC can attack it from 2 angles:
            1. Implement fast specialized circuitry for the PRNG that Scrypt uses to reduce the need to hold large pseudo-random sequences in memory. This is the reduced-memory attack approach at the expense of requiring fast & potentially complex PRNG circuitry.

            2. Implement what would effectively be a very stripped-down GPU that still has a bunch of fast RAM attached but throws out every bit of circuitry that isn’t specifically intended to crunch SCrypt hashes. This is simpler from a compute perspective and would beat a GPU in both real performance & power efficiency, but it still requires implementing a relatively complex memory controller and having DRAM on a board.

            Litecoin is better at defeating ASICs than Bitcoin, but as you said.. ASICs will still win if done properly.

      • Firestarter
      • 6 years ago

      [quote<]Is there anybody actually paying "real money" for Litecoins with all this talk of bubble-burst?[/quote<] Most of the LTC gets traded for BTC as far as I know, and people definitely pay money for BTC. [quote<] What kind of profits are we talking per card on average? Obviously that has to do with energy costs, but are these people making thousands of dollars? Hundreds? Tens of thousands?[/quote<] Depends. A single HD7950 mines about $3 to $5 worth of LTC per day, depending on factors such as how many other people are mining and what the current going rate is. Subtract the power costs and you get the marginal profit.

      • f0d
      • 6 years ago

      i paid for my 5850 my 6970 my htpc case and a few hard drives mining bitcoins a few years ago

      i wont be getting that anymore but back a few years ago you could make a few bucks with an amd card

      now you don’t really get jack unless you mine the newer coins like litecoin and others (which i haven’t done – i haven’t mined for a while now)

      • CB5000
      • 6 years ago

      i have a 7970 that i used before the asic boom, and then switched over to litecoin. That single 450$ graphics card netted me about 2000$ with bitcoin and litecoin combined, so a 4x ROI isn’t too shabby. i have since stopped mining litecoins, and sold my currencies when the prices spiked last year. my electricity isnt a significant cost since power here is dirt cheap.

    • pdjblum
    • 6 years ago

    Notwithstanding AMD claiming they are not at fault, which I get, they are still responsible. Let me explain why I think this is a reasonable statement. When they send you cards to review, they come along with a MSRP, which is integral to your final recommendation. If the MSRP is not a reasonable expectation, as it has not been for quite sometime for the cards in question, then your recommendation is tainted at best, though certainly not your guy’s fault. Why should you guys be put in that position, one that could implicate you by association (yes, I am reaching, but you get it)? It would be awesome if you guys along with pcper and other tech sites would stop reviewing AMD cards until they step up and correct the problem.

      • pdjblum
      • 6 years ago

      Have not posted in very long time because of the hands up/down thing. Do not get why someone would give this post a vote down? If you disagree, please say why. Why disparage a reasonable comment that is meant to be in the best interest of our pc enthusiat community?

        • chuckula
        • 6 years ago

        At this point I wear them as a badge of honor considering there are certain individuals who downthumb (and upthumb) without thinking.

        It’s pretty easy to tell the posts that have undeserved down and up thumbs.

        • NeelyCam
        • 6 years ago

        This is how thumbing is – don’t take it personally. And don’t choose not to post because you’re worried about downthumbs.

      • dragontamer5788
      • 6 years ago

      These cards sold at their MSRP when they were released. A few months later, cryptocoins exploded and dramatically raised the prices of AMD GPUs as a result. The reviews of the R9 290X and other cards are valid at the timeframe that they were published. Obviously, it is no longer the case due to changing market conditions.

      No one should be held responsible for failing to read the future.

        • pdjblum
        • 6 years ago

        They recently sent out the 265 for review with an MSRP that is likely to be unattainable. This is not predicting the future but recognizing the ongoing situation, don’t you think?

          • cegras
          • 6 years ago

          Why do you think that? The hashrate on the 265 is nowhere near the 290’s.

            • pdjblum
            • 6 years ago

            Sorry, I do not know the the relative bitcoin mining performance of the different skews. I hope my general sentiment still is reasonable.

            • cegras
            • 6 years ago

            It really depends. GPUs are being bought to mine litecoins, which uses an algorithm apparently specifically designed against ASIC attacks, since it requires a lot of memory. Nowadays it is impossible to get any amount of money from bitcoin unless you buy chips specifically for mining them. So LTC is what is driving up GPU prices, and most people are going for the R290 because they have the highest hashrate / watt I think.

          • dragontamer5788
          • 6 years ago

          Even Charlie doesn’t think the 265 is a good buy.

          [url<]http://semiaccurate.com/2014/02/13/amds-radeon-r7-265-one-avoid/[/url<] With reviews like that, it probably will come out with its low low MSRP.

    • Bauxite
    • 6 years ago

    Everyone who wanted Hawaii but waited for the better cooler versions to come out got screwed pretty bad, lol!

    Bitcoin et al mining are a “I leave my water faucet running and get paid for it” kind of waste. Burning electricity for the sake of it. Still, compared to all the other completely pointless things we waste basic resources for, meh. Annoying that they drove prices up, but same crap happened with SSDs early on, especially from gouge-egg.

    Gotta say though, at least a lot of the other distributed computing efforts did something meaningful. This is just computing SHA hashes and getting a bunch of [s<]people[/s<] suckers to speculate on it. Some people are making pretty good money off the suckers though.

      • Firestarter
      • 6 years ago

      Eh, at the moment it’s partially compensated for by heating, so it’s not a total loss in that sense. But you’re right, this is the fundamental flaw in the idea of a Proof of Work algorithm, which is the reason that people are looking at Proof of Stake algorithms to take over.

        • NovusBogus
        • 6 years ago

        Not gonna lie, sometimes when I wake up and its 45-50 degrees in my apartment because Minnesota I wish I had a GPU space heater going. I do have one RasPi Block Erupter, but it only uses a couple watts so it’s like peeing into the ocean. Oh well, serves me right for being overly cautious and efficient.

          • Milo Burke
          • 6 years ago

          Where in Minnesota? I live in the northern suburbs of the Twin Cities. =]

            • NovusBogus
            • 6 years ago

            SW suburbs for me, a few miles outside the 494. Lots of tech jobs down here, especially in EP/Edina.

          • mesyn191
          • 6 years ago

          Run Mikyway or LHC@Home then. Its what I do and my furnace hardly ever has to turn on in winter.

      • NovusBogus
      • 6 years ago

      Noble causes don’t pay the bills. And there’s gonna be a lot more bills to pay if/when folding@home produces the next $50 wonder pill that the doctors say everyone has to take.

        • BIF
        • 6 years ago

        People can choose to not take the pill.

        In my opinion it is the government education system that prepares many of us to believe everything the politicians and doctors say, and to obey without question, when questions should be asked…

      • OneArmedScissor
      • 6 years ago

      “gouge-egg” has a ~1% profit margin. They’d better take what they can get.

      • Voldenuit
      • 6 years ago

      [quote<]This is just computing SHA hashes and getting a bunch of [s<]people[/s<] suckers to speculate on it. Some people are making pretty good money off the suckers though.[/quote<] See [url<]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory[/url<].

      • JustAnEngineer
      • 6 years ago

      The energy-wasting litecoin miners have also gobbled up the 3rd-party coolers for the R9-290(X). I haven’t seen an [url=http://www.arctic.ac/us_en/accelero-hybrid.html<]Arctic Accelero Hybrid[/url<] in stock anywhere, especially not at its former $105 price point.

    • kc77
    • 6 years ago

    This is what i was able to find.

    290x

    [url=http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GDDR5-4GB-2xDVI-Graphics-GV-R929XOC-4GD/dp/B00HS866AK/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1392402371&sr=8-7&keywords=Radeon+290x<]Gigabyte R9 290x - $599[/url<] (this one is apparently now going for $769) [url=http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8871754&SRCCODE=WEBGOOPA&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCV1-CjCE&gclid=CJvt9cuhzLwCFQIOOgodx3UAIg<]XFX R9 290x - 699[/url<] 280x [url=http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1022647&Q=&is=REG&A=details<]Diamond R9 280x $393[/url<] [url=https://www.google.com/shopping/product/6070366702824335112?q=%22Radeon+R9+280x%22&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.61535280,d.aWc,pv.xjs.s.en_US.M3gUQDA8spw.O&biw=1920&bih=979&tch=1&ech=1&psi=1WP-Uo7rOqiIyAGknIHYBQ.1392403414919.5&prds=hsec:online&ei=MGT-Upi7BI3YyAHL14HoBQ&ved=0CP4GENkrMA44KA<]Asus R9 280x - $334[/url<] It wasn't too hard to find them. But yeah if you go to the big names then yeah they are going to charge you an arm and a leg.

      • Ari Atari
      • 6 years ago

      I believe the difference here is that these $900 cards are in stock TODAY, not in 2 to 5 weeks. Your first two links are the same btw.

        • kc77
        • 6 years ago

        Wow down voted for providing a link to cheaper cards. Interesting. Link updated and the second link ships TODAY as you would put it. There were more links available but I’m not going to cut and paste all of the Google search returns.

        The fact of matter is using Google shouldn’t be that hard for anyone to do. If you want the cards cheaper they are out there. Now if you want to complain so be it. But it’s not going to be because you can’t find something closer to MSRP.

        Should there be more? Of course. But the whole point is can you can find the card cheaper somewhere reputable.

          • BIF
          • 6 years ago

          You were only downvoted because nobody has been fed to the lions yet, it was your turn, and the spectators in the Colosseum don’t know what to do with their intense feelings of bloodlust.

            • kc77
            • 6 years ago

            Looks like it. 🙂

          • chuckula
          • 6 years ago

          You did [b<]not[/b<] provide links to cheaper cards. You provided links to websites that [b<][i<]talk about[/i<][/b<] cheaper cards, but do not actually provide you with the opportunity to buy the card for the price stated. Newegg is charging ripoff prices, but the reason they can get away with it is that they will actually ship you a card. By your logic, the Nvidia Titan costs $25 because in 5-6 years that's probably what one will go for on the second-hand market.

            • slash3
            • 6 years ago

            The XFX 290x at TigerDirect is in stock and can be purchased with a classic mouse click.

            • chuckula
            • 6 years ago

            And for $699 I’d be running to find the nearest GTX-780TI and be done with it.

            • ahmedabdo
            • 6 years ago

            But that’s not $900. I’m not saying that it is cheap, but the man doesn’t deserve to be down-voted !

            • NovusBogus
            • 6 years ago

            $25? Pfft, I offer them for the low low price of $24.99. Expected delivery is 1-664654732543 weeks. Cash up front please, preferably in unmarked non-sequential bitcoins.

          • Convert
          • 6 years ago

          The gigabyte card is $769 and the XFX is still $150 over MSRP.

          The Diamond card is preorder and the Asus either isn’t in stock or the sites that claim availability I wouldn’t trust the stock levels anyways.

          Now I realize I could have worded my post a bit better and not started picking apart your helpful links right from the start, and I hope you know that I’m not really discrediting the fact that these cards can’t be found [i<]somewhere[/i<] online at or close to MSRP. Most of us just stick to certain sites for our ordering. I only use Newegg and Amazon for bigger purchases, if it isn't one of those sites it doesn't exist for me. Crazy, silly, whatever you want to call it I just have enough patience to wait for something to come in stock or I simply buy something else. I personally do a lot of ordering and knowing the return routine and policy is solid is critical. So anyone reading your post probably noticed the same things. Anytime there are supply and demand issues for a product this same thing happens, you can usually find it near MSRP somewhere out there if you look hard enough and you don't mind playing the in stock or not game.

      • Bensam123
      • 6 years ago

      A preorder and a popup store looking to steal your money. There are quite a few companies that are popping up overnight selling these cards and disappear in a week or so.

        • kc77
        • 6 years ago

        Tiger Direct is anything but pop up. Very popular in Florida.

        [url=http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8869859&CatId=7387<]They have another 290X this one for $649 and in stock w/ custom cooler. [/url<]

          • Bensam123
          • 6 years ago

          [url<]https://www.google.com/shopping/product/6070366702824335112?q=%22Radeon+R9+280x%22&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.61535280,d.aWc,pv.xjs.s.en_US.M3gUQDA8spw.O&biw=1920&bih=979&tch=1&ech=1&psi=1WP-Uo7rOqiIyAGknIHYBQ.1392403414919.5&prds=hsec:online&ei=MGT-Upi7BI3YyAHL14HoBQ&ved=0CP4GENkrMA44KA[/url<] 4th link Empire deals, Rover... Tiger direct has a 7-21 day ship time = preorder.

      • sschaem
      • 6 years ago

      Your link for 599 is really 769$.. And 1 left in stock at that price.
      The situation in the us is not that rosy …

      Gigabyte R9 290X GDDR5-4GB 2xDVI/HDMI/DP OC Graphics Card GV-R929XOC-4GD
      by Gigabyte
      Be the first to review this item
      Price: $769.00 & FREE Shipping

        • kc77
        • 6 years ago

        Prices change. That’s what it was yesterday when there were 5 in stock. You can either complain or buy it. I do not care one way or the other.

        The whole point of me posting the links wasn’t to say, “Hey the skies have cleared and all is well.” The whole point of it was to show is that we can we buy those cards today below 900 dollars, good or bad, happy or sad if you look for it.

        I was doing it to help others not myself. I bought myself a video card about 4 months ago for $689. What was it? Well it was a GTX 780 (non TI).

          • BIF
          • 6 years ago

          [quote<]Prices change. That's what it was yesterday when there were 5 in stock. You can either complain or buy it. I do not care one way or the other. [/quote<] kc77 is right, that was the price when I checked yesterday, and now it's higher. Not his fault. Woof.

    • brucethemoose
    • 6 years ago

    Hmmm, I should probably sell my 7950 right now, the buy a 290 or 2 when ASICs come out and prices come crashing down.

      • willmore
      • 6 years ago

      Don’t short AMD stock, short the cards. Clever.

      • jihadjoe
      • 6 years ago

      I’m actually thinking of buying a couple of cards elsewhere and carrying them into the US to sell.

    • Firestarter
    • 6 years ago

    I wonder what kind of Nvidia card I could buy with my 2 year old HD7950

      • brucethemoose
      • 6 years ago

      Actually, Nvidia cards are more expensive too. The 780 never really got the price drop it needed to match the 290, and the 770’s price has gone up to roughly match a 280X.

        • Firestarter
        • 6 years ago

        Makes sense I guess, with the total demand for GPUs being up.

        • homerdog
        • 6 years ago

        Pardon? The 770 can be had for <$350 while the cheapest 280X is $499.99. On Newegg.

    • ronch
    • 6 years ago

    This law of supply and demand partly demonstrates man’s greed. In the case of an item that’s in demand, the seller will obviously not have trouble selling it. But hey, why not jack prices up to make more money?

    And people are wondering why the world is like this.

      • Meadows
      • 6 years ago

      I’m sorry, should they just give them away? Fool.

        • ronch
        • 6 years ago

        I don’t think you understood what I mean. So who’s the fool?

          • Srsly_Bro
          • 6 years ago

          Still you.

            • ronch
            • 6 years ago

            Look, my friend, I’m pointing out a fundamental flaw in human nature. I’m not attacking anyone. If you or Meadows or whoever else here got hurt or found my original comment offensive, I’m sorry, you can either cry or take it as constructive criticism or at least a curious observation on my part. But what did Meadows do? He misinterprets what I’ve said and calls me a fool. Is that how proper men act? I had no choice but to retaliate. Not saying I wanted to, heck, I don’t wanna offend anybody here, but Meadows acted high and mighty. A little camaraderie goes a long way, don’t you think?

            • sschaem
            • 6 years ago

            Is that you Karl?

            I think you got that reaction becaus you are promoting pure communism.
            This might make you a good camarade , but Man falls to ruin under your Promoted principles.

            Check how eBay works… Highest bidder. This goes against your belief on how man should behave , but its what works.

            • Meadows
            • 6 years ago

            Communism is indeed the word, but I didn’t want to be the first to actually say it.

            • Meadows
            • 6 years ago

            You seem to be opposing something that’s natural and reasonable. Moreover, supply and demand *should* govern every open market because such markets are the ones that ultimately work best. History has proven this consistently.

            All in all, I had no other word to call you after such a comment from you.

            • Srsly_Bro
            • 6 years ago

            I just read that we are friends. I stopped reading there. That’s all I need. 🙂

            • BIF
            • 6 years ago

            [u<]Hypocrisy[/u<]: The TRUE fundamental flaw in human nature. Example: When the individual does it, it's called cunning, or savvy business, or "bargain hunter." And it's a thing to be proud of, such as waiting in lines on US Thanksgiving Day for the next Black Friday sale. Yet some of those same line-campers will shake their heads and "tsk tsk" companies like Apple or Microsoft even while buying their products!

      • Ari Atari
      • 6 years ago

      It’s not greed that it demonstrates, it’s a man’s values. If a piece of silicon is worth more to him then the fuel he uses to get around for the month, then it should cost more. If it isn’t, then he will pay more for the gas or forgo the silicon. Utility is different for everyone.

        • YukaKun
        • 6 years ago

        The pillar of Capitalism is greed (egoism) when you trade. “The monkeys that do business”.

      • Pwnstar
      • 6 years ago

      You can only sell for a price that some one else will pay. I really doubt Newegg is selling any $900 GPUs.

        • sschaem
        • 6 years ago

        Intel sold more then a few CPU at ~900$. Nvidia titan was considered a success.
        Those GPU are actually good at non gaming work

      • BIF
      • 6 years ago

      I want a new card for my 3D work and for folding which runs 24/7. I don’t plan to mine any crypto currency with it. And I might end up being socked with the price increases along with everybody else.

      Maybe I am in the minority, but we should all remember that “the world is like this” actually includes people like me who have work to do and don’t plan to join the communal bubble.

      • Srsly_Bro
      • 6 years ago

      Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

      #playerhater#yolo#capitalism#QQmoar

        • ronch
        • 6 years ago

        Yes, of course it is. The game man has created. But let’s say I’m selling bread and one day I wake up and a big calamity strikes and everyone is suddenly hungry and there’s nothing to eat. My store is full of bread and there’s nowhere else to get it. Obviously, most people would think the law of supply and demand and immediately raise prices because it would ‘deter’ people from buying it and at least ease demand a little bit, lessening the pressure on weak supply. But the thing is, whether they like to pay for it or not my bread will inevitably run out because they NEED to eat. They’ll pay 10x the price if they have to because really, there ARE people who can pay 10x. So if I raise my prices 10x only the rich people will be able to buy while the poor go hungry. And it will probably still take just an hour to clear my inventory. I got 10x more, and that’s really good, but it demonstrates an inherent flaw in man’s nature. The flaw of greed to take advantage of a situation to make more revenue. Well, what if I don’t raise prices at all? I would still be able to clear in inventory in an hour and still would’ve made the same profit as though the calamity never struck but this time, it’s not just the rich who will be able to eat, but it will be on a first-come-first-serve basis. That’s more fair, isn’t it? I didn’t make 10x the revenue, but at least the poor also got to eat.

        Of course, this is a very unlikely scenario in today’s world run by capitalism and man’s law of economics and business just won’t allow it.

          • sschaem
          • 6 years ago

          In both scenario the same amount of people would have starved to death

          Your problem seem to be more that people with money don’t deserve it,
          And society should not reward anyone more then others

          And waiting In line is the true way to reward people?

          I guess your utopia will come true when Disney land Cuba opens

          • Meadows
          • 6 years ago

          The laws of supply and demand do not force your hand. Theoretically, you *can* continue selling your bread at sub-par profits, but you’d be a fool to do so.

          First, let’s look at this from the humanitarian perspective. A life is a life, no matter whether it belongs to a homeless wench or a rich upper-class gentleman. Whether you raise your prices or not will not save more people: it will leave the same amount of people hungry, so your sense of “justice” will be merely an illusion.

          Moreover, a rich guy could just buy all your bread first thing in the morning and then resell it at a premium in a cunning act of arbitrage — after all, if [i<]you're[/i<] not man enough to raise the asking price, then [i<]someone else[/i<] will be. Free markets work like that. Secondly, let's look at the business perspective. You let a great profit opportunity pass by [i<]while only feeding the same number of people[/i<] you'd feed anyway, which is careless, to say the least. In addition, should the rich actually [i<]stay[/i<] hungry, they'll be a pain in your butt. Best case is they'll ask for bread to be held for them at a premium, so you end up the same way you should've ended up anyway, and worst case is they'll attack you legally for the failure to provide them with service. Top tier customers are not ones you want to anger, so your little charity could endanger itself. (You do not face the same threat from bottom feeders, since let's be honest; what could [i<]they[/i<] do?) To cut a long story short: you'd be a terrible shopkeeper.

            • thermistor
            • 6 years ago

            Meadows incredibly effin douche-y as usual.

            Look, as a shopkeeper, he will still make a profit, even with slightly inflated prices, something in keeping with a disaster.

            I think we all agree that we can get out our moral compasses and look at what passes for catastrophe-driven prices versus out-and-out extortion.

            Besides, I wouldn’t want to be the one responsible for causing children to go hungry because many of my heretofore customers cannot afford my price-gouging $100/loaves of bread.

            Supply and demand is only a framework, and is not a reason or an excuse for removing your moral compass from financial transactions. The so-called free market is an illusion to blind you to the fact that you’re just a tool, Meadows.

            • Meadows
            • 6 years ago

            Thinking of the children is nonsense.

            • uni-mitation
            • 5 years ago

            How about throwing those moral compasses out of the equation? Meanwhile Meadows is not doing anything illegal then damned be my moral compass and yours! He can do whatever he wants with his loaves of bread.

            Unless doing something immoral but legal had in any sense a bearing in the sales of a company I would think many current companies would be out of business today? There is a big list. But then again, as a consumer you can buy with your wallet.

          • BIF
          • 6 years ago

          First off, if there’s a big calamity, it won’t matter because…

          …people will accuse you of being an evil business owner because you have all the food and how dare you!
          …then…
          …they will pass a law saying you can’t sell your bread at a profit in a time like this and how dare you!
          …then…
          …they will accuse you of being an evil business owner because you have all the food and how dare you!
          …then…
          …they will smash your windows and steal your bread, and while they’re at it, they’ll take all the other food from the store, the cash from the till, and they’ll rip out the fixtures and shelving just to make sure they got it all.
          …then…
          …they will say you deserved it because you were an evil business owner who had all the food and how dare you!

          The answer?

          Well, it may just be smarter to raise the prices and bring in as much revenue as possible so that you can afford armed guards while making next month’s rent and taxes which will be due on the 1st anyway regardless of the calamity, and you don’t know when the next bread delivery truck is going to arrive anyway.

          If you can’t make the tough decisions, then you shouldn’t open a bread store!

      • Krogoth
      • 6 years ago

      Sour grapes, the thread.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 6 years ago

        I prefer bananas

          • sweatshopking
          • 6 years ago

          I’LL KILL YOU! IT’S OBVIOUSLY MANGO

      • Freon
      • 6 years ago

      We should have a government program to give out Radeons to those in need at discounted pricing. We’ll send in the FBI to confiscate the Radeons from Newegg so they can be properly rationed.

      • alloyD
      • 6 years ago

      As much as I don’t like it (being a poor schmuck in the market for a GPU right now), allowing demand to set prices works quite well for luxury items (like high-end GPUs). Any time demand exceeds supply, there must be a method to determine who actually gets the product since everyone can’t have one. In the case of luxury items, why not determine by price?
      I would really like an R9 290X.
      I do not need an R9 290X.
      I definitely won’t pay the current going price, but apparently some people are. I see no problem with that in this case.

    • UnfriendlyFire
    • 6 years ago

    You know what AMD should do?

    Sell stripped down GPUs specifically meant for bit/litecoin mining, and undercut the ASCII machine sellers.

    That way should the coin-mining bubble bursts, only the stripped down GPUs’ prices would be primarily affected.

      • Firestarter
      • 6 years ago

      You mean AMD should’ve predicted the massive price hike of BTC and LTC in November/December? Or the weird success of Dogecoin? Nobody has that kind of crystal balls and if they had, they sure wouldn’t waste their time designing GPUs.

      edit: way to edit your post after the fact

        • UnfriendlyFire
        • 6 years ago

        I didn’t see your post until after I did my editing.

          • Firestarter
          • 6 years ago

          My post was a reply to an earlier version of your post, where you said that AMD should have predicted that their GPUs would be popular for scrypt mining.

      • dmjifn
      • 6 years ago

      [quote<]undercut the ASCII machine sellers[/quote<] ASIC?

        • UnfriendlyFire
        • 6 years ago

        Yeah, that.

        I’m terrible with acronyms. 😛

        • NovusBogus
        • 6 years ago

        Dwarf Fortress is serious business.

      • S_D
      • 6 years ago

      That’s actually a great idea. Remove the video output part and it’ll knock some money of the cost too

    • maxxcool
    • 6 years ago

    I doubt beyond the oem sale price that amd is making any extra cash off of this. It is the vendors in the channel that are making >%40 profits per unit.

      • stdRaichu
      • 6 years ago

      Nonsense – AMD is [i<]obviously[/i<] hoarding the cards themselves so as to mine themselves more R&D money. Edit: I've been doing some more research into this, and it turns out that if you re-arrange the letters to "Radeon: Gaming Evolved" you get the following: [b<]Go mine doge, Rev. Vandal![/b<] Seeing as there's a Reverend involved I suspect this coin-mining plot of AMDs goes a [i<]lot[/i<] deeper than we thought and probably has ties to the Vatican... who want people to stop playing computer games and get back in the churches... jeez, it's all starting to make sense! Edit 2: Confirmed; if you so the same thing with "Nvidia: The Way it's Meant to be Played" you get: [b<]Oh yea, AMD tentative bit-pay swindle[/b<] This whole thing stinks of corruption at the highest levels.

        • UnfriendlyFire
        • 6 years ago

        AMD could build their own mining machines… If they have the guts to risk it that big.

          • willmore
          • 6 years ago

          Think of it, they could still sell the cards as new. They could even advertise them as having the best burn in testing in the industry bar none. Also, warranty returns would be down as any card that survived the mining would be unlikely to fail for infant mortality reasons. As long as they can sell them before 20nm ramps up, they’ll have lost very little and maybe made some coin.

          Sadly, it could be one of the most profitable things AMD has done in years.

    • PrincipalSkinner
    • 6 years ago

    It’ll be fun when GPU mining stops being viable. After explosion comes the implosion. With bunch of discounted cards everywhere, no one will be buying new ones for a while.

    • chuckula
    • 6 years ago

    OK, I may make fun of AMD*, but those prices are just silly and aren’t really AMD’s fault.

    There is the threat of a market glut if AMD steps up production too much as well, since the litecoin fad ain’t gonna last forever (or even 4 more months).

    * Moreso AMD’s marketing department & associated fanclub than the real engineers.

      • shank15217
      • 6 years ago

      Bitcoin was a fad too, it lasted a bit longer than expected, what makes you think lite coin wont?

        • chuckula
        • 6 years ago

        Even if the fad continues, GPUs will be superseded by ASICs if there is real money to be made in Litecoin… just like what happened in Bitcoin [that’s in the middle of yet another crash as we speak].

          • dragontamer5788
          • 6 years ago

          Just in time for Dogecoin, which now tops the charts as [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1v6fjp/dogecoin_now_accounting_for_more_transaction/<]#1 crypto-coin by transaction volume[/url<]. GPUs retain the flexibility of programming. Making ASICs only makes sense when these coins sit still for more than 6 months at a time. GPUs can be reprogrammed easily to switch between BTC, Litecoin, DOGEcoin, and any other random coin that starts up and becomese popular.

            • Prestige Worldwide
            • 6 years ago

            [url<]http://www.stuffcoins.com/images/items/3596.png[/url<]

            • derFunkenstein
            • 6 years ago

            “such under construction. very 404. much wow.”

            –Mrs. derfunkenstein, who walked in to see that photo.

            • Milo Burke
            • 6 years ago

            You married a good one.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 6 years ago

            That I did.

            • yuhong
            • 6 years ago

            Dogecoin uses the same algorithm as Litecoin.

        • dmjifn
        • 6 years ago

        Was it a fad? I just bought the Sid Meier Humble Bundle and it had bitcoin as a payment option.

          • shank15217
          • 6 years ago

          You missed the sarcasm, i’m obviously stating it’s not a fad and it will be around. Litecoin was specifically made so that it’s not as easy to mine with custom asic right from the beginning.

      • LostCat
      • 6 years ago

      I have a friend with four vidcards for the stuff and I think he’s just doing it for the hell of it, not to make money. 🙁

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