Jeez. 4K displays are coming down in price like crazy lately. One of the latest introductions, Samsung’s U28D590D, is now available through the Newegg marketplace for just $799.99. Yes, that’s technically $100 over Samsung’s MSRP, but it’s still peanuts for a 28" monitor with a 3840×2160 panel. Amazon also has the monitor listed for $698.99, but it’s not yet in stock. According to AMD’s Robert Hallock, this new monitor supports 4K resolutions via DisplayPort at 60Hz using single-stream transport.

Thanks to single-stream transport, this monitor should be detected as a single panel when hooked up via DisplayPort. That may not sound like much, but it’s a rarity in the 4K world, where the limitations older scaler ASICs cause many displays to work as two separate tiles. This tiling arrangement leads to the same kind of awkwardness you’d get out of a dual-monitor setup, and it’s far from ideal in games. (Scott outlined these hurdles in detail here.) The Samsung U28D590D should be hurdle-exempt. According to Hallock, AMD "worked very closely [with] the scaler vendor" on this display.
What else? Well, the U28D590D has a TN panel with 170°/160° viewing angles, which are narrower than what you get out of the finest IPS panels. But the thing also has LED backlighting, 370 cd/m² brightness, a 1000:1 contrast ratio, a one-millisecond gray-to-gray response time, and support for "one billion colors," which is presumably shorthand for 10-bit color support. We’ve had a chance to look at some other 4K monitors with TN panels recently, and they look surprisingly good—good enough to make us overcome our usual IPS snobbery.
I’m glad to see 4K displays stray so far from their pricey beginnings. I also hope this surge of affordable 4K displays (and 4K laptops) will motivate developers to implement better high-PPI support in Windows apps. I wrote about the dearth of high-PPI apps and Windows’ somewhat awkward coping mechanism five months ago, and we’re still not there yet.
Must have ended early because it’s $699 again.
FINALLY!
I started a forum thread on this subject a while ago. I still wonder when we will see similar quality for the living room. Right now I don’t think there is a 4K TV that runs 4K at over 30 hz anywhere(because HDMI 2.0 is not adopted yet)
Will be exciting to watch this adoption and transition over the next 2-3 years.
[url<]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0JC-0007-00009[/url<] "HOT DEALS" post here... [url<]https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=93646&p=1203062#p1203062[/url<] NewEgg preorder $600 till 4-26-14 Free Shipping
for general usage, sure, but not for anyone playing games
and lightboost.
[url<]http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/[/url<] I can coerce 110 hz out of my monitor, which is tolerable, but motion blur can still be a problem depending on what games you're playing, especially if you get stuck using lower refresh rates. Also, I can't think people need these monitors for video or gaming, as neither require 4k, or perform better with it. In fact, 4k is quite the negative for gaming, considering all it's drawbacks. [url<]https://techreport.com/review/26279/amd-radeon-r9-295-x2-graphics-card-reviewed/3[/url<] [quote<]When I do notice the additional sharpness, it's not always a positive. For example, I often perceive multiple small pixels changing quickly near each other as noise or flicker. The reflections in puddles in BF4 are one example of this phenomenon. I don't think those shader effects have enough internal sampling, and somehow, that becomes an apparent problem at 4K's high pixel densities. My sense is that, most of the time, lower pixel densities combined with supersampling (basically, rendering each pixel multiple times at an offset and blending) would probably be more pleasing overall than 4K is today.[/quote<]
The geometry thing can’t really be understated. rounded or elongated squares made me constantly fidget with controls on CRTs. So glad to have LCD, even if it’s not perfect.
i was really looking forward to SED’s but as you said stupid patent trolls stopped that tech from becoming produced
sad really because as you said it had the qualities of a crt and lcd
Everything does.
Lol not even close. One deals with a middle man, one direct to manufacturer. One can get price protection on stock, the other can’t. Also if a product doesn’t move, most BB manufacturers can return the stock, mom and pop can’t.
They both demand strong relationships with their distributors and customers. The difference is scale of their operation.
[quote<]They are both local places that you can pick-up stuff on your own.[/quote<] That is where the similarity ends. B&M stores such as your BB have entire departments of purchasers dealing with the manufacturer one on one. Your Mom and Pop stores typically have to go through a distributor which takes their additional cut. A mom and pop store sometimes join a purchasing group to get better rates. Your Mom and Pop stores also can have much lower overhead than a B&M shop. Operating a B&M and a Mom and Pop store require two very different management styles and business strategies. A mom and pop store also relies heavily on repeat business and cultivates those relationships. They also have to make sure that they can rotate their inventory in a very quick time (ideally within 30 days before the purchases become due). Try to use business strategies that big box B&M stores use in a Mom and Pop store and you will be closing the doors down for good within 6 months.
ITT: impatience geeks who don’t understand retail and logistics.
Taxes and tariffs, how do they work?
They are both local places that you can pick-up stuff on your own.
The only difference is that one is owned by a corporation/LLC and other is usually a sole proprietorship or partnership. It is sometimes easier to get a specialty item from a small operation than a large store, because the larger store has to worry more about inventory control (a.k.a getting product that sells in bulk rather than loading on product geared towards certain niches).
Lol, are you implying that a Mom and Pop store have the same purchasing power as a B&M store like Best Buy?
And cost an arm and a leg for early adopters.
Not much difference.
Imperfect screen geometry, sensitive to EMI, image quality is highly depended on RAMDACs on video card, massive/voluminous and uses a ton of heavy metals (real reason why they were phased out).
SEDs/FEDs are the holy grail (combines the best qualities of CRTs and LCDs), but they are trapped by patent trolls.
OLEDs still have to work on life expectancy, cost and color accuracy.
He probably means that since 4K doubles 1080p exactly, there should be no uneven scaling artifacts because every pixel just needs to be doubled once in both dimensions. So it would end up looking like one giant 1080p monitor with huge-ass pixels.
Why anyone would prefer that is beyond me. Weak GPU? Then this is not for them in the first place.
Oh no, that solution just sounds gross.
c
Let’s take a big square. That’s your pixel on a 1920×1080 LCD display. Take that square and cut it into four equal-sized squares, bisecting it horizontally and vertically. Those are the pixels on a 3840×2160 display.
Take the four smaller squares and push them together to make a big square. Except for the seams between the smaller squares, the four of them together do a pretty good job of representing the larger square. That’s what happens when you feed a 1920×1080 signal to a 3840×2160 display.
x
s
z
Never had slow shipping from newegg. It is always shipped out same day (if realistic) for me, even busy times (black friday). I have hundreds of orders over the years, and don’t remember ever having a shipping delay.
Overrated
Should be possible to do it with two DP cables, if you’d be willing to put up with the issues that’d bring :).
It’s LCD. It has a fixed number of pixels.
Hope I am wrong in getting the impression
that this monitor ONLY displays 4K.
As in it upscales everything up to 4k and
no other options apply.
If correct that is a deal killer for me 🙁
Been reading Amazon Questions/comments.
EDIT… Ok, at least the PDF shows multiple resolutions
The thing I like is that I can run it at 1080P and
it should display as well as any native 1080P monitor
due to the exact 4X 1080P of 4K res.
(Some programs are unusable at 4K)
jmc
Do video cable bandwidths even allow for that?
Newegg certainly isn’t the same company it was 7ish years ago, but they still have great sales.
I recently bought an Asus rt-n65u for $20 after rebates as well as a Asus VN248H-P for $120 after rebate.
Both arrive 2 days after placing the order using the supersaver shipping.
I have had the opposite experience. Anecdotes!
lol yea I noticed that as well. Whatever… the videophiles are just spazzing out because simply because they refuse to admit that a high quality TN panel can actually be quite good. Haters gonna hate. lol
v
I remember them always being slightly more expensive than other sites, but their site design was so superior I accepted it as a the cost of being able what I wanted in minutes instead of hours.
I haven’t experienced any of that except pricing and ads (their ads have always been bad though). I still get excellent customer service from Newegg. I’ve never had trouble returning items, even very recently.
I’ve simply stopped buying things from them because of their prices. Though I still go their site because it’s by far the best for finding items and viewing high quality pictures.
Unfortunately the mom and pop computer retailer near me just announced they were closing their Peoria location yesterday, and their last day is Saturday. To go to a mom and pop computer retailer now I have to drive roughly 40 miles each way, so now with the price of gas it’s cheaper to order online and wait a couple days.
Amazon is my preferred place to buy stuff. I pay for Prime so I can get 2-day shipping, and when they say 2 days it’s 2 days. I have more than saved the $80, and when it goes up to $100 I’ll still save.
Looks like that’s not being sold by Newegg. It’s from a third party.
Against my better judgement I will say: If you find the prices at Newegg are not competitive then don’t buy from them. Just please stop whining about it in useless comments that clutter the page.
Depends. A lot of cheap junk is so bad color on the top of the screen is different than on the bottom, so a lot of hate is justified.
The problem is people take these rock bottom TN screens as a measure of TN quality in general.
OLED is (for indoor stuff).
Great blacks, response time, colors, viewing angles. Decent brightness and power consumption.
Too much radiation, space and heat when compared to LCDs…
Gets progressively less sharp at higher frequencies and requires progressively more gamma correction as the device ages.
For example, the monitor I use right now requires an average gamma correction value of 2.23 (up from the NVidia default of 1.00). Some games ignore this driver value, and do not support high enough values themselves in its place (for example, Amnesia – Pigs of Something or Other), so I usually have to run those games windowed (fullscreen).
One 780 for 4k? Not. Check into some benchmarks. Unless you enjoy your games @< 25FPS.
So you are running triple/quad SLI 780TIs or Titans?
I’m waiting for this before I get into 4k tech. I have an ASUS VG278HR going from 120 to 144 isn’t noticeable to me, but could never go back to 60hz! IMO it will be years before 4k 120hz, coz of panel and GPU requirements.
CRT? 😛
To all people who complain about TN: actually IPS is not the holy grail, because black levels suck arse on them, you’d be better off with a VA panel… on which latency will be somewhat higher instead.
Actually there is no holy grail.
Please please please 4K at 120HZ…
This is worth investigating as previous 4k displays would enable Eyefinity across the two tiles to reach that resolution.
I’m not talking B&M stores, I’m talking mom and pop businesses.
I don’t know about that. The longest it has ever taken Amazon to get a product to me was 3 days, with Amazon prime it is 48 hours. If I get a newegg order to change its status to “shipped” within in a week I consider fast processing by newegg standards.
Srsly_Bro?
c
No kidding… I mean I get the hate people have for TN panels, I really do… there are a LOT of REALLY crappy TN panels out there… but the Good TN panels really are not that bad….
i 100% agree but everyone on TR thinks IPS is gods gift to computers
apart from the angles which i dont care about because i ALWAYS view my screen from directly in front i dont notice much difference at all, sure im not an imaging professsional and most people buying screens isnt either so i dont get the total HATE on TR for TN screens
i saw an asus ips and a 144hz screen side by side when i was getting my latest screen and i actually preferred the 144hz screen over the ips when viewing games side by side
maybe the color might be 0.1% off on TN panels (or some silly fraction like that) but i honestly couldnt tell – im happy with my TN 144hz screen and i wouldnt want anything else (except maybe a 144hz 4k screen 🙂
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaggies<]Jaggies[/url<] are annoying, even at high resolutions.
buy my monitors! they’re hand made!
Looks like the videophiles are out in full storm.
m
I was more referring to deja vu since all the comments are nearly exactly the same to the last time this TN 28″er was posted.
So, when will the Korean manufacturers get their hands on this panel and controller?
I’d jump on 28″/4k/TN for ~$400. It’s possible, as 4k 39″ VA panels are already well below $700.
Take 2.
Does this mean that the frame pacing fix for crossfire implemented in recent Catalyst releases that was limited to 2560×1600 will work at 4k on this monitor?
Why use MSAA when SMAA exists?
Me too. I started a new comment thread here earlier and it’s gone AWOL.
Hmm, AMD worked with the developer of the scaler? Hmmmm… AMD, they people who introduced FreeSync to VESA. Hmmmmmm….. Please, oh, please……
There’s a huge difference between 0 AA and 2X AA. There’s a visible (but slight) difference between 2X and 4X AA. Above 4X AA, the differences are only visible in still screenshots. There’s no time to notice them when the action is going.
It is harder to process orders fast when you are dealing with larger volumes. Amazon has the same problem for years when it got big.
It is because B&M stores are lowering their prices in order to compete against etailers. Shipping costs are starting to catch-up (raising fuel costs). The mainstream etailers are trying to reap in the profits since they know that people now prefer shopping online because it is more *convenient* and are willing to pay a premium for this. B&M have the advantage of shipping stuck in bulk which helps to reduce the shipping cost per unit.
TN panels are more than sufficient for the vast majority of the people out there. Their primary weakness is having poor vertical viewing angles (not a big deal for most people). The horizontal viewing angle isn’t too bad but it can be problematic for spectators and/or you intend to use the unit as a secondary display. Color accuracy is fine for most people and you usually need proper source material to notice the difference from a IPS and *PA unit.
IPS and *PAs are better at color accuracy and viewing angles but they are not as fast as TNs. LCDs cannot match a quality CRT at color accuracy, viewing angle and speed.
123
TN = Twisted Nematic? 😛
You can order it. They will ship it as soon as it is back in stock. Trust me, I’ve ordered plenty of back ordered items from them.
Totally_Nasty
In all fairness higher quality TN panels are not that bad, in fact you will be hard pressed to tell the difference during typical use between a TN and a IPS panel unless the two are right next to each other (yes yes viewing angles are a dead give away, but I am rarely looking at my desktops monitor form a 160+ degree angle…). And on some really nice TN panels, its hard to tell the difference even if they are right next to each other. It is just a shame that most TN panels out there are total garbage which has given them a bad name. Oh I agree that IPS and a few other panel types are better (depending on your use case), but at the same time a GOOD TN panel can actually be quite nice and enjoyable to use.
b
Kinda sad really… because newegg used to (typically) have the best prices in town and their shipping was fast as heck.
Because otherwise, why would people need to upgrade?
That would be meaningful if it could actually be ordered.
TN = Terra_Nocuus?
You forgot slow shipping.
Once again, the industry is incentivizing the path of Yarrrr.
I am with you on this one. Heck I would pay an extra 50 for it to already just come with a proper hight, pivot, tilt, swivel stand that just mounts to a vesa mount already on the back like my current monitor does. I can understand offering a stripped down model for those who are too cheap to appreciate a proper stand, but for god sakes please at least offer another model that does have a proper stand and a vesa mount for a few bucks more!
Edit: typos.
If an 860 gtx with 4 gigs can approach the performance of a vanilla 780, I’m thinking things will be fine at lower AA levels. I’m not convinced the higher levels of AA are necessary at the higher DPI’s of these monitors.
What everyone else said.
TN, no wai.
I don’t even know why they bother making TN displays over IPS ones. If every factory making TN panels made IPS panels instead, cost of scale would bring the overall cost of all those IPS panels down considerably.
Instead, we have tons of TN panels being made and only a few IPS panels. Then every IPS panel is worth its weight in goldplated latinum.
Meh, industry. You annoy me. Then again, they couldn’t even be bothered to make the standard 120hz while they were bothering to make a new standard, too. Eventually, they’re going to make a new port standard to do it regardless, so why wait?
So they can make NEW controllers in the future and sell them, too, I think.
Newegg has become the Best Buy of online.
Horrible prices, horrible customer service, horrible return policies, and annoying ads.
Yep. Newegg. The New Best Buy.
They should rename themselves Newbuy.
Not this again. Why can’t they just finalize their plans all at once rather than trickle them out, forcing us to find workarounds and hacks and everything else to make things work that should just work?
As if HDCP stopped piracy at all anyway. All it did was make my monitors blink every time I turn on my HDTV, annoying the hell out of me.
Actually on their US customer site it is more expensive. lol
[url<]http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=95635&vpn=LU28D590DS%2FZC&manufacture=Samsung[/url<]
[quote<]CAD[/quote<] (From link) [quote<]$1 CAD = $0.91 USD[/quote<] (Source: google) Its even cheaper!
I think they changed something in the matrix. Apoc get me a hard line!
Price per pixel is the same as in the most expensive 21.5″, 1920×1080 TN Samsungs. It will be interesting to see how image quality compares to those.
If they make an IPS version of this, I’d spend more than $800, but until then, I’m good with my twin 16:10 24″ IPS monitors, thanks.
TN = That’s Nasty?
Lame, I got a 3-yr warranty on my Dell P2214H IPS I bought a few month ago.
No G-sync?
yeah, i have never bought off of newegg. stuff is ALWAYS cheaper at ncix or memoryexpress. they’ve become tigerdirect.
my brother bought me an hp ips monitor a few months ago, so i’ll be monitored up for the next few years. One thing that surprised me, however, was i got a 3 year warranty on my acer TN, but a 1 year on my more expensive IPS….
Use duct-tape. Problem solved.
Interesting but not surprising. I find that Newegg is usually overpriced on a lot of their items. Most times I can pick stuff up locally for at least the same price but it is usually cheaper (especially when you tack on their shipping charges).
Input latency is always one of the top variables in a monitor purchase for me, twitch gaming all the way.
But I would still prefer 1440p 144/120hz Gsync instead of 4K if I wanted to step up from 1080 resolution-wise and still have the kind of features I would need for maximum fluidity and minimum input lag while playing FPS games.
Don’t think an 860 is gonna be much use at 4K.
Early adopters beware!
If there is any possibility you’ll ever want to use your 4K display for watching movies or other encrypted content, I HIGHLY suggest you read up on industry plans around HDCP 2.2.
If your hardware doesn’t have HDCP 2.2 support, you’re basically gonna get screwed.
you said that before bro. make something new up
That’s a real shame that there’s no mount. I bought a nice arm about 10 years ago and I love having the space below the screen empty.
Also agree about the TN. If somebody had told me that we’d have a panel on any type with that many pixels for that price a year ago, I probably would have called bullshit. I’d never get a TN for work, but for gaming, this could be definitely a fun compromise.
Edit: that word should not be blanked out. Harry Frankfurt wrote a perfectly respectable philosophical essay with that title.
Well if it’s 8-bit +FRC to get 1 billion colours, and if they upped the quality the viewing angles should improve as per the specs say.
A good desktop TN panel is not even comparable to a junk laptop TN panel.
I prefer IPS/HVA/PLS myself, but I have never seen a TN panel with more than 6-bit and/or 6-bit+FRC colour. I would like to see one first hand to see.
Looks like someone is trying to ride the +1 train again.
Here’s to hoping that NVidia gets their 860-ish card out soon as that will be a pre requisite for me to pink up one of these marvels….
That makes it even worse, because according to the current exchange rate, 1 CAD is worth about 10% less than 1 USD.
That’s in Loonies.
Well that’s interesting.
TN = Thanks, No!
No VESA mount = no buy.
Which is too bad, because even a TN display is tempting. After all, you are still getting 4k resolution [i<]and[/i<] 60 Hz (older 4k displays were limited to 30 Hz). Even at $800, that isn't too bad if you're really after the real estate.
agree, if the input latency is good(ish), then this would be the first ‘4K’ monitor I’d recommend or buy myself
Typical Newegg price gouge.
$599 at NCIX
[url<]http://www.ncix.com/detail/samsung-u28d590d-28in-4k-uhd-c5-95635-1165.htm[/url<]
Very curious about input latency. (1ms grey to grey is meaningless)
TN is a big worry, but not all TN is complete garbage, some is alright depending on use.