”Windows Threshold” said to disable Modern UI on desktops

Microsoft may go out of its way not to annoy us desktop users in the next major Windows release. According to Neowin, that release, which is known as Windows Threshold (and which may or may not be called Windows 9 upon launch), could disable the Modern UI interface altogether on desktop systems.

Word is that some pre-release builds of Threshold already do this. Those builds still serve up Modern UI by default on tablets, Neowin says, but they disable it by default on desktop PCs. (Users can still go in and re-enable it if they wish.) To access Modern UI apps, desktop users are expected to use the Start menu or the taskbar. And, oh joy, Modern UI apps run inside windows just like their non-Modern UI counterparts.

Neowin says this design is symptomatic of a departure from the "Sinofsky vision of [a] hybrid OS." Steven Sinofsky, the former President of Microsoft’s Windows division, left the company in November 2012, shortly after the release of Windows 8.

Microsoft hasn’t said a peep about Threshold yet, so this is still just a rumor. I think it ranks pretty highly on the plausibility scale, though. Windows 8.1 already takes the trouble of booting into the desktop by default on desktop PCs, and it adds title bars with basic window controls to Modern UI apps (though those apps are still stuck in full-screen mode). We’ve heard rumors about Microsoft implementing fully windowed Modern UI apps before, too.

Comments closed
    • vargis14
    • 6 years ago

    I do not know why they can not give us the best of both worlds…that includes the people who like the metro deal.
    Just have a simple Mode selection option in the control panel or even the login screen. Since windows 8 is a bit more efficient then win 7. There should be no problem for them to just have a desktop mode AKA win 7 mode and metro mode and even a combo of both.
    I think that would make everyone happy. I for one dislike metro and will stick with win 7 until I am sure I will get the same win 7 experience with the improvements of 8.1 without having to run a program to get it almost like win 7.
    Some people like to have 20 chrome windows open that I find odd since you can only read a one at a time and sites update often with new stuff + bookmarks work well and internet is fast….but who am I to judge since I like having 50+ desktop shortcuts on a plain back round leaving me with space for like maybe 10 more shortcuts:) But one thing that 20+ chrome windows will do is help you use that extra RAM that hardly gets used.

    • rika13
    • 6 years ago

    I actually turn off Aero on my desktop running Win 7. I don’t mean “just turn transparency off”. I refer to killing the themes service and getting Win2k style windows. This not only helps compatibility with some older apps, but does save a bit of GPU overhead for pretty effects that have honey badger levels of apathy over.

    • yeeeeman
    • 6 years ago

    I think the correct word for Windows 8s UI is not modern but tabletized. Windows 7 UI is modern, sleek, intuitive, clean, refreshing, easy to use. That is modern.

    • GTVic
    • 6 years ago

    Modern UI doesn’t go away because Microsoft now allows a window around a Modern UI app and defaults this on a desktop.

    This is a fairly confusing article and a lot of people are generally confused based on the comments posted here. But … instead of educating themselves prefer to rehash pointless histrionics.

    • Kaleid
    • 6 years ago

    Apart from as little tablet-UI as possible I want two things:

    1. Ability to change the windows explorer background color. Too much white blows.
    2. Ability to set as a default setting to show available free space.

    • Grape Flavor
    • 6 years ago

    Sure, whatever. The people have spoken. I still don’t think Windows 8 is nearly as bad as some people have made it out to be, but if even Microsoft themselves aren’t willing to defend their operating system anymore then I’m sure as heck not either.

    Just work on bringing us a Windows 9 that everybody can love and PC users can put this whole sorry episode behind us.

    • cheesyking
    • 6 years ago

    Now if they’d just stop trying to force you to have a microsoft account to use the thing I’d be happy.

    • bender
    • 6 years ago

    Damn it MS … stop messing around.

    Win 8 was the coolest idea: one OS to work on both desktop and tablet. They just forced the tablet paradigm onto desktop users. Bad move IMO in an otherwise fantastic OS.

    Here’s what I want going forward:

    1) Give desktop users the ability to never have to see tiles (sounds like they’re heading this way)

    2) I thought I cared about the Start menu, but now that I use Macs a lot more … all I want is a feature as good as Spotlight (in addition to the current taskbar). The search in the current Start menu sucks. I type ‘media’ and Windows Media player doesn’t even show up but 3 VLC flavors do?

    3) Multiple desktops … pretty please?

    4) Fix the ‘show desktop’ button when the taskbar is on the left side of the screen (where it should be on wide screen). What it does in Win 8 is unforgivable.

    That’s it! Sold at least one copy. Oh and thanks for finally giving us the damn ‘up’ button back in Explorer why they took one of the most useful navigation buttons away from me I’ll never quite understand.

      • Ninjitsu
      • 6 years ago

      I believe Windows 7 fixes 2 and 4 for you.

        • bender
        • 6 years ago

        I’m still running 7 on my primary machine. You’re right about 4, but I definitely do not always get the results that I would expect from the Start menu search.

        I think it’s especially frustrating because I’d much rather type what I want than have to hunt down an icon or a file some.

      • Wirko
      • 6 years ago

      4) I tried that and found two small annoyances in two minutes, nothing major. One more on 2012 Server over RDP. We shall praise Microsoft’s attention to detail.

        • bender
        • 6 years ago

        Yeah on 8 I was disappointed that the show desktop button is where you would expect it to be, but whipping your mouse into the corner and clicking actually brings of the Start screen – just like the top left corner of the screen. Like I need two corners for that.

        So you have to aim for this tiny little space right next to the corner.

    • End User
    • 6 years ago

    I run dual 2560×1440 displays on my Windows 8.1 rig and the modern UI is just fracking terrible on such a setup. Good riddance.

    Microsoft really needs to put some effort into their desktop UI. OS X just destroys Windows in the classic desktop UI arena (apart from Snap (thank you BetterSnapTool!))

      • sweatshopking
      • 6 years ago

      Hahaaha. That’s why OSX is copying the flat UI. Cause its horrible. They brought a modern UI clone to IOS, and its coming to OSX too.

        • End User
        • 6 years ago

        Flat design ≠ Modern UI

          • sweatshopking
          • 6 years ago

          sorry bro. it’s a copy. live in your dream world. They’re 4 years behind MS in ui design.

            • sschaem
            • 6 years ago

            And MS is 15 years behind AOL by using large purple and green square on full screen pages?

            No, MS might be ahead in many area, but desktop UI is not one of them.
            History is proof, from the first mac of the 80s to today.

            • sweatshopking
            • 6 years ago

            Hahahaha. No.

            • vargis14
            • 6 years ago

            Man SSK you sure to seem to troll for downvotes and do a fine job at it. Keep up the good work I do find your posts amusing most of times.

            I get my fair share of downvotes also but I am not trying to get them.

            A good analogy would be early 1980’s wresting…..your like the Iron Sheik waving the flag of IRAN around or one of the Japanese tag team wrestlers Mr. Fuji and Mr. Saito throwing salt in people eyes.
            Keep the entertainment coming along with the good comments you post often also.
            Thumbs Up!

            Wish they had a Thumbs vote counter for all members so we could all see who ranks where. I think it would be kinda fun. I suspect I would be on the thumbs down side of the %50 mark.

            • sweatshopking
            • 6 years ago

            i’m sure i will be.

            • sweatshopking
            • 6 years ago

            and lol, this article is like a month old.

    • internetsandman
    • 6 years ago

    It seems like Microsoft is struggling to simultaneously backpedal and advance. I’m curious to see how long it will be from Windows 8 initial release to the kind of widespread deployment that XP and 7 enjoyed.

    Is this update going to cross that threshold?

    • Krogoth
    • 6 years ago

    Microsoft is eating a ton of crow…..

      • oldog
      • 6 years ago

      Well yes and no. Yes the Metro interface looks like it’s not long for the desktop world but I suspect that there is a win (no pun intended) here by getting any user of Win 8 to have a familiarity with their tablet interface.

    • ssidbroadcast
    • 6 years ago

    I was inside a Microsoft Store the other day and happened to see a Surface 3, so I picked it up and played around with it for like 30 seconds. I went to the “desktop” from the Start Screen… and then realized I had no way of right-clicking anything. How do you right-click on a Surface? I tried two-fingers.

    And then I put it back down and moved on with my life. Such a confused machine.

      • dalingrin
      • 6 years ago

      Tap and hold for right click. This is not new to the Surface or Windows 8. Its has been around for a very long time. You can also use a button on the stylus to right click as well.
      I recently bought a Surface Pro 3 with the expectation that I might not like it and would need to return it. That was based on comments like yours that always come up when the Surface or Windows 8 is mentioned. However, now that I’ve had the Surface Pro 3 for a few days I honestly have no idea what people complain about. Its a really great device for my needs and I can now get rid of my previous laptop AND tablet. I still use my desktop for heavy duty work/games but everything else can be done with the Surface Pro 3.

        • ssidbroadcast
        • 6 years ago

        *shrug* the build quality and screen resolution/display was nice. It’s light.

      • moog
      • 6 years ago

      Tap and hold until you see the box. Let go.

      • Meadows
      • 6 years ago

      You do realise tap&hold is the same thing Android uses, right?

      • [+Duracell-]
      • 6 years ago

      A long tap is the same as a right-click.

      • sweatshopking
      • 6 years ago

      This is hilarious, ssid! You need to use nonmacs once in a while! This is like 15 years old!

    • Kougar
    • 6 years ago

    This sounds promising, but remember that pre-release builds of Windows 8 still had the Windows 7 desktop option right up till just a couple months before launch too.

      • Shouefref
      • 6 years ago

      Please, let us dream for a while. Don’t spoil it already…

    • JohnC
    • 6 years ago

    Thank God. Should’ve been done long time ago. Also, maybe the “try-hard” All-in-One PC manufacturers will now stop FORCING people to pay for useless touchscreen junk. Like MSI did with their Adora system – it fit all my requirements for wall-mountable “family” AIO except when I was buying it the ONLY version that was available was with touchscreen display. Fortunately it was easy to disable this feature (which was useless to every family member or guest and only added nasty finger smudges), unfortunately I was still forced to pay for this hardware feature even though I did not want it.

      • sweatshopking
      • 6 years ago

      I’ll never buy another nontouch computer again. Its too useful. Its like having no keyboard.

        • Chrispy_
        • 6 years ago

        Do you use a [url=http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071229220020/en.futurama/images/a/a8/Finglonger.jpg<]finglonger[/url<] for your HTPC then?

          • sweatshopking
          • 6 years ago

          No. I don’t have it on my desktop. I’d like it though, especially in my kitchen. On my laptop, surface, etc. Its fantastic.

    • Andrew Lauritzen
    • 6 years ago

    “And, oh joy, Modern UI apps run inside windows just like their non-Modern UI counterparts.”

    Don’t “poo poo” that point; that’s one of the biggest issues with the modern UI stuff (full screen). If you could put it in (ideally resizable) windows then some of it would actually be useful on desktops.

      • robliz2Q
      • 6 years ago

      One of the major confusions from what I observe of normal users who on Desktop tend to hit maximise window button rather than work with Desktop windows, is the dislocation where the screen switches mode unexpected.

      What I hate about the Metro err… Modern, is that it stops you browsing an app, whilst doing something else; it’s far important than features like dual or quad core to me in practice. The other gotcha is when they demand you sign up to some crapola service, as first step before you even seen if you would want to do it. Leads to uninstall, install a traditional desktop version of whatever it was that does this.

    • Kretschmer
    • 6 years ago

    I’d imagine that MS Executives are in a cold sweat over the prospect of businesses holding on to their Win7 boxes until the end of time. It’s not smart to shoot your golden goose.

    As someone who was quite happy with Vista (SP1), I have no idea what they were thinking with Win8…

      • cygnus1
      • 6 years ago

      They’re golden egg keeps going. I don’t know that they care much version you use. As long you’re still buying on a regular basis. Either with new PC’s or under software assurance contracts. All the big companies running Windows 7 until the end of time are also likely paying software assurance licenses for them every year too.

    • Meadows
    • 6 years ago

    Hahah, I bet MMO is disappointed now.

      • l33t-g4m3r
      • 6 years ago

      How can someone suffering from pseudologia fantastica be disappointed? They’d just tell themselves otherwise. Doesn’t make anything he thinks true, but I’m sure he thinks it is in his own mind.

      Edit:
      After all, Windows 8 is a screaming success because Microsoft is still making a profit. /MMO ( Of course, none of MS’s other business ventures would have anything to do with that, because Windows 8 is it’s sole revenue generator. DURR.)

        • sweatshopking
        • 6 years ago

        Its like 2 seconds to disable it on windows 8. Nobody will care either way.

    • blastdoor
    • 6 years ago

    “Neowin says this design is symptomatic of a departure from the “Sinofsky vision of [a] hybrid OS.” ”

    Instead of this being symptomatic of a departure from the hybrid vision, I wonder if this is just MS bowing to intense pressure from desktop users about this specific issue.

    If there were truly a departure from the vision of a hybrid OS, would we have the Surface Pro 3, which is clearly designed and promoted as a hybrid device? I don’t see how you have a vision for selling hybrid devices without having a vision for a hybrid OS. Or is the entire Surface effort circling the bowl? Is the Surface Pro 3 the last chance being given to this hybrid vision?

      • jdaven
      • 6 years ago

      These two items in today’s shortbread…

      Neowin: Microsoft reportedly plans to ditch Surface brand; phone range to be “Nokia by Microsoft”
      DigiTimes: Microsoft said to halt Surface Mini production

      …seem to support your inquiry.

    • WhatMeWorry
    • 6 years ago

    Why didn’t Microsoft do this to begin with. I’m all for advancement/improvement as long as I can learn or implement it on my own time and in my own way.

      • robliz2Q
      • 6 years ago

      I think it was hubris, it sounded good PUSHING the new UI to gain market share and network effects for that software, with ISVs being pursuaded of need to make major porting efforts.

    • DPete27
    • 6 years ago

    April 2015 for Win9 launch sound about right to everyone?

      • Ninjitsu
      • 6 years ago

      Nope, should be October.

      EDIT: Wow did i just miss a joke? :/

    • evilpaul
    • 6 years ago

    I switched over to Windows 8 a few months after its release. I honestly don’t see why people hate it so much. You can set up the Start Screen however you want basically. Although it could use more customization options, really. You can get at whatever with the Windows key as fast as the Start Menu. You can do the start typing an application name and it brings up suggestions. (The Alarm Modern UI App is pretty nice too. I’ve burned so much less food in the oven.)

    It seems slightly less efficient even after you’re fully used to it like you are with Win7, but not by all that much really. I think the reticence is mostly hating change and being annoyed by Microsoft’s hubris for foisting a huge change on us and expecting us to be happy about it.

      • [+Duracell-]
      • 6 years ago

      I like the Start Screen better than the Start Menu when it comes to pinning apps to them. I find it easier to organize the icons how I want them, then use my spatial memory to get to them.

        • rado992
        • 6 years ago

        //sarcasm
        Or, you know, put the icons in some sort of a grid arrangement, let’s say, on the desktop, and configure them so they can be as big or small as you like (30+ different sizes). That seems prety logical to me and doesn’t involve shoving hot corners, charms, lock screens and edge gestures on a desktop system.
        //sarcasm

        Of course it comes down to personal opinion, but the market share they’re getting with Win8+ probably made them rethink their plan of not allowing people to choose. Really, there’s nothing more to be asked – Windows has always been about having choices, so allowing users to choose what UI they use can only benefit the perception of users about Metro. Maybe if people weren’t ticked off by the little things Metro doesn’t do quite as well and were allowed to disable them, they wouldn’t perceive the Modern UI as a whole as such a mess.

          • [+Duracell-]
          • 6 years ago

          Oddly enough, I use all of those things most people lament about on my desktop. I use the left edge to get to Words By Post when I have it open, a cross-platform Scrabble clone I play with my girlfriend. I use the right edge to get to the time pretty quickly on my second monitor when I have a fullscreen app (Wildstar or Netflix, for example) on my primary where the taskbar is hidden.

          I do agree that they should have left the choice in there, though, although I wouldn’t have discovered all of the things I use them for and instead stuck to my old ways.

        • robliz2Q
        • 6 years ago

        Win8 I have had to customise my “Start Menu” by re-enabling Quick Launch and putting everything I use there or have it pinned to Taskbar. It’s way too jarring flipping screens, in that Metro mode, avoid all the Modern crap then flip back to Desktop.

        You know I really like being able to READ what’s on right of my screen, whilst searching in Start Menu, not every time but when I want it, Win8 is really really desperately annoying

          • [+Duracell-]
          • 6 years ago

          I did the same thing: Pin my most commonly-used applications on my taskbar. I’ve been doing that since Windows 7, though, so it’s not new to me. For my less common applications, I have them grouped on the Start screen by what kind of app it is and sized appropriately.

          [quote<]You know I really like being able to READ what's on right of my screen, whilst searching in Start Menu[/quote<] I find this notion weird because you're either doing one thing or the other. Unless you're trying to read instructions on a page that tells you to go to the start menu. There's a search function for that.

        • Wirko
        • 6 years ago

        Those start screen tiles have some really efficient artificial stupidity built in. I tried like crazy to arrange them to my liking, any every tile that I moved made many others flee somewhere else. Figured out the two-column “logic” … eventually. Must consult askvg.com yet again to see if there are any registry hacks to shoot that down.

          • [+Duracell-]
          • 6 years ago

          Each column holds two medium tiles side by side, or four small, or one wide/large tile. You can also create tile groups by dragging them into empty space in between groups or to the right of all your groups, I believe.

      • slowriot
      • 6 years ago

      Here’s the problem. You say “You can set up the Start Screen however you want basically.” And then immediately follow with “Although it could use more customization options, really.” Those two sentences are contradicting. You cannot set up Start Screen however you want, precisely because there are very limited customization options.

      Your second paragraph then talks about how you think the old UI was more efficient than the new UI.

      I’m sorry, but you listed nothing but negatives, tried to pass them off as “not so bad” and gave zero reasons why the new UI is better. I find these type of comments incredibly frustrating. It’s like you’re lying to yourself.

      • Goofus Maximus
      • 6 years ago

      I can see why Windows 8.0 drove people bats, but 8.1 was useable without modification (after finding out where everything was hidden, that is). 8.1 update 1 turned windows into something totally unobjectionable for me. Honestly, if they change nothing from this point, I won’t be bothered, though I’m still not a fan of live tiles.

      I can live with modern apps too. At least with regards to Weather, Mahjong, Solitaire, and Minesweeper! 🙂

        • [+Duracell-]
        • 6 years ago

        Have you tried Snap Attack? That’s a pretty solid word game if you’re into them.

      • HisDivineOrder
      • 6 years ago

      1) People hate it when something decent is replaced by something less efficient for no other reason than because Microsoft can.

      2) People hate it when something decent is replaced by something less efficient and then no option is given to disable said change and Microsoft goes completely out of their way to strip every single line of code that could have made adding the Start Menu back even remotely easy from the OS out of spite.

      3) The Start Menu and the Start Screen both are activated by the Windows Key. News at 11. The problem isn’t the lack of a physical key, but the design of the Start Screen. That’s the comical element to Microsoft adding back a software Start Button, but forgetting the Menu in doing so (for 8.1).

      4) You could type an application name and have applications pop up with the Windows 7 Start Menu, too. That’s not even new functionality in Windows 8.

      5) Alarm applications are dime a dozen.

      6) “Less efficient” is less efficient, dude. Think about it like this. You buy an upgraded OS. They change out the existing system for a new system that adds NOTHING to the overall experience even you admit. You’re saying essentially, “It’s not THAT bad.” But it’s not good, either, or you’d be saying so. So in essence, you’re saying that a system that’s “not that bad” that is worse than the system they originally had should be tolerated because it’s not that bad even though the change is actually “slightly less efficient.” What was this change for if not for efficiency’s sake? How do you convince yourself that’s a worthwhile change if it’s less efficient AND adds nothing to the experience? Moreover, why would you expect people not to be annoyed by it when they paid money to get a BETTER experience, not a “slightly less efficient” one that’s not that bad?

      7) I think the reasons people are annoyed, pissed, angry, furious, or NOT buying Windows 8/8.1 “But Fer Reals” Edition/8.1 Update 1 “No, No, This Time It’s Fer Reals” Edition/8.1 Update 2 “Hai guyz, it’s Microsoft Again, Why Won’t You Call Us Back?” Edition are all based around the same problem. Microsoft is a company used to having its users by the cahoneys and telling them, “We do what we want. And you’ll learn to like it and use it and love it.” And users are finally looking around and realizing, “Hey, we have options that aren’t Microsoft for browsing the web and checking our emails.” And you know what they’re doing? They’re saying, “Thanks, but no thanks Microsoft!”

      8) Everything tied to Windows 8 suffered the same fate. That includes Windows 8, Windows RT, Windows Phone 8, Windows Phone 7.8, Surface RT, Surface Pro, Surface 2, Surface Pro 2, and Xbox One. Microsoft thought they are a premium brand when they are not. They thought they could command a price premium when it’s more their competitors were lacking than they actually excelled enough to win customers over. When real competition exists, users leave them behind. The closest of the races was the Xbox One and that tanked because rather than repeat their winning strategy with the 360 ($399, focus on games) they decided to chase after the PS3 Ken’s dream of high cost and “It does everything.” Because that worked out so well with the PS3 in the early going, right? That’s their closest to successful. Everything else has tanked hard.

      8.1) Most of their early sales of Windows 8 came from sales at an absurdly low price for a full-on new version of Windows and even then they couldn’t match the sales of Windows 7.

      8.1 Update 1) And that’s without any meaningful competition in the PC market specifically except Chromebooks, which oddly enough became some of the hottest, fastest selling computers being sold currently. Suddenly, every OEM is making one, too. What a co-ink-ee-dink.

      8.1 Update 2) Then they had to firesale the Surface RT.

      9) That’s why people are pissed. Microsoft’s hubris was not just annoying. For most any other company that hadn’t such a LONG run as the company that had us all by the cahoneys, it would have been outright terminal to so broadly and completely be as stupidly arrogant as they were/have been/are. Decades of treating users like drug addicts they take features away from, then add them back, and call it progress have finally come to a head now that there are other options for users to take advantage of. And so they all leave. Well, all but the gamers that Microsoft routinely declares they will support, but then forgets when their Xbox mistress comes a-callin’. An Xbox mistress that has cost Microsoft more than they’ve made on it and whose brand does nothing for ANY of Microsoft’s major brands. And yet Microsoft gutted its entire PC developer groups to make MORE Kinect Sports and Forza’s because apparently there was no more room for real Flight Simulators, real Mech Warriors, or Microsoft Golf/Links on PC.

      One) That’s why Microsoft’s getting flak for Windows 8. It embodies everything that’s completely wrong with the company.

      One Update 1) And btw, Windows 8 is less efficient, but you’re paying money to upgrade.

        • RenatoPassos
        • 6 years ago

        1. This is the best post I’ve seen about the Win 8 frustration – it sums it all and I even had some fun reading it;
        2. Slowriot also got it right on spot;
        3. Can this be turned into a “sticky” post of sorts? 🙂

        • kvndoom
        • 6 years ago

        +1000, my friend. I read every word, and couldn’t agree more on all points.

          • sweatshopking
          • 6 years ago

          Don’t encourage his insane(ly long) posts.

      • ThorAxe
      • 6 years ago

      With the release of 8.1 I don’t really have anything major to complain about anymore.

      It’s brilliant on a touchscreen Ultrabook and I much prefer it to Windows 7 on my gaming PC, especially with the enhanced support for SSDs. I also prefer the Netflix app to the browser version.

      • NeelyCam
      • 6 years ago

      Your opinion is wrong.

    • Grigory
    • 6 years ago

    I have asked for this but I wouldn’t have dreamed of MS having the brains to actually do this. Then again, it isn’t certain at his point.

    • cynan
    • 6 years ago

    They had better still allow users the choice of Modern UI on a desktop system! Otherwise whatever will be done with all of those touch-enabled desktop monitors that everyone rushed out and bought upon the release of Windows 8?

      • robliz2Q
      • 6 years ago

      Ars Technica article on excavating the landfill to confirm rumours in about the year 2145?

    • kamikaziechameleon
    • 6 years ago

    “Sinofsky vision of [a] hybrid OS.”

    Seems this where their problems lie. The vision is so limited to a division lead and not shared across upper management at a company. Hmmm… Bet they blame the poor PC games treatment on the vision of a division lead. :^/

    • tootercomputer
    • 6 years ago

    The one modern Windows 8.1 app I use is IE 11. There is a desktop version, but the modern version is awesome, and I would hate to lose that.

    The other thought is whether there may be any trend toward touch screens for desktops. Personally, I would love to have one. I may be alone on this, but for many many years I have desired a touch input option on a desktop, to be used along with mouse, keyboard, and voice. I think the modern UI goes well with touch, but I use touch on non-UI apps as well, and so I hope MS always keeps it as as option for any touch screen system, even desktop systems with touch.

    As a side note, both my son and I have fairly new touchscreen laptops with Win 8.1. I have a pretty decent sandy bride desktop system that I built two years ago set up in our family room with Win 7. It runs great, but both my son and I miss Win 8.1 and the touch screen option, and I may update the sandy bridge system accordingly. Maybe once you get used to touch. . .

      • WhatMeWorry
      • 6 years ago

      “I have a pretty decent sandy bride…”

      Why are you bringing your wife into this conservation? 🙂

        • Deanjo
        • 6 years ago

        Better question is why he is looking to upgrade? Looking for one that is more responsive to touch?

          • Duct Tape Dude
          • 6 years ago

          Everyone knows Haswell is hotter.

          • tootercomputer
          • 6 years ago

          Upgrade my current monitor (22″ LCD) to say a 25″ touch screen and update to win 8.1. I’m not going to upgrade the system, it runs great (nice cool OC at 4.5GHz). I should have been more specific.

          Oh yeah, and it’s sandy bridge. That was good.

        • Wirko
        • 6 years ago

        I see what you did their.

          • Pwnstar
          • 6 years ago

          Who?

    • Ninjitsu
    • 6 years ago

    [quote<] Windows 8.1 already takes the trouble of booting into the desktop by default on desktop PCs [/quote<] Doesn't do it on non-touchscreen laptops...or at least, the one I've seen.

    • Chrispy_
    • 6 years ago

    [b<]Choice.[/b<] That is all they needed to do in Windows 8 - give the users choice to use [s<]Modern UI[/s<] Metro or not. I'm glad that Bill Flora (the Apple-loving Metro lead designer) and Balmer (the gorilla who pushed such a silly idea) are gone. Perhaps normal service (user choice) at Microsoft will be resumed at last....

      • sweatshopking
      • 6 years ago

      This was a sinofsky decision, and they fired him for it. Sometimes I wonder about you…

        • Chrispy_
        • 6 years ago

        No, Sinofsky was head of Windows during 8’s development but his interface input goes back a long way and most of what he’s done has been great (Office 97-2007, Ribbon toolbars, recovering from the IE6 disaster and putting IE back on the browser map as something people might actually want to use).

        Sinofsky was fired by Balmer because there was a lot of friction with Balmer over 8’s UI. The designer who’s often credited with Metro itself is Bill Flora. Regardless of who is to blame, I think most desktop users would gladly disable Metro and never turn it on again.

    • iatacs19
    • 6 years ago

    Keep in mind that the Windows 8 design was finalized before the iPhone/iPad era took over the “touch” experience. But, I do agree Microsoft should not have forced the UI on desktop users. I guess you live and you learn, or don’t. 🙂

    • csroc
    • 6 years ago

    hrrggg, I think I can be ok with this. I actually quite like many aspects of the Metro/Modern UI on my keyboard & mouse desktop. The start screen, to me, is much better to use than the start menu.

    Being able to selectively run the apps full screen or in windowed modes (that I can then reduce in size as necessary) would be fantastic, however.

      • robliz2Q
      • 6 years ago

      Burn him!

    • derFunkenstein
    • 6 years ago

    The “Modern UI” probably should have always allowed windowed apps. That one tiny change (still not available) would have made complaints about Windows 8 or 8.1 much more muted (STRAT MENUE!!!! complaints notwithstanding). If you’re going to foist this stuff upon us at least let us use it with the rest of our desktop stuff on a desktop.

      • LostCat
      • 6 years ago

      I expected this evolution over time considering how limited the Store apps and related APIs were at first.

      There’s a lot to like about the Windows Runtime though, and it can be used in desktop apps already. (Will it? No, since it’s only supported in one OS, but a few years down the road we shall see.)

        • derFunkenstein
        • 6 years ago

        I don’t have any problems with what I think on the whole will wind up being progress. Sharing code between desktop, tablet, and phone is a big step forward. I guess finding a way to use it that way was secondary though. lol

    • jstern
    • 6 years ago

    Reading the first sentence, the phrase, “I’m a desktop user” ran in my mind. I use Windows 8.1, use none of the Metro apps, and use it just like Windows 7. The only thing is that it doesn’t have aero, transparency, and I felt that was a better look.

      • EzioAs
      • 6 years ago

      I use Win8 on my laptop and I the thing I dislike most is not having aero and transparency. Other than that, it’s just as good if not better.

      • Ninjitsu
      • 6 years ago

      Yeah, don’t know why they took Aero away.

        • Flying Fox
        • 6 years ago

        Mainly to avoid hitting the GPU so it does not kill tablet battery.

          • Deanjo
          • 6 years ago

          It’s still a composited desktop in Win 8 and as such the battery life doesn’t change much if any.

            • rootheday3
            • 6 years ago

            Transparency on means the compositor is doing alpha blending which requires a read (of the background color), raster op to merge it with foreground, and then a write. This is 2x the memory bandwidth of just doing a write in the opaque case.

            Win8 also added Multi Plane Overlay – a feature that lets the OS assign display planes to an application swap chain to avoid using dx/gpu to do hi resolution compositing and use the display hardware instead. With opaque buffers and proper z ordering, this can also save power by not lighting up the gpu so much just to do compositing.

            with high res displays on both tablets and laptops becoming more common, savings from features like these amount to perhaps 200mW- a noticeable bump in useful battery life for light use cases ( web, email, video) where overall platform power csn be in the low single digits.

          • Ninjitsu
          • 6 years ago

          It’s hardly a bother to the GPU. My GTX 560 clocks down to 50/67/101 MHz when idling…and GPU memory usage is generally below 100MB.

          And anyway, the part about this being a desktop OS comes up again: why on earth should desktop users have to deal with tablet compromises?

            • strange_brew
            • 6 years ago

            The Aero Glass transparency pixel shader for title bars samples the background 8 times per pixel to enable the blurred effect. When Windows 8 was being developed they were targeting very low end GPUs for tablets, think Intel CloverTrail with PowerVR SGX 545, or Qualcomm Snapdragon with lower end graphics. At the time, the Aero Glass shaders were very slow on that class of HW.

            Intel CedarTrail processors are supported on Windows 7 and use the same SGX 545 GPU as CloverTrail – go ahead and try to run Aero on a CedarTrail. You’ll see why MSFT disabled the transparency. 🙂

            Now that BayTrail or higher end Nvidia / Qualcomm parts are the baseline, I hope they at least offer Aero Glass as an option in Windows 9.

        • edwpang
        • 6 years ago

        Actually Aero is alway on for windows 8/8.1. Compared to Win7 the transparency is gone except for the taskbar. Just check for dwm.exe in task manager.

      • BaronMatrix
      • 6 years ago

      I have a laptop with W8.1 and I sometimes Remote in… I run it full screen and I can compare the look of desktop windows… W8 Chrome looks like Win95 which is a downgrade…

      I have a 6970 and 3 LCDs, so I’m not worried about battery life…

      No AERO, No DEAL…

      I’ll stick with W7…

    • maxxcool
    • 6 years ago

    Well see… that may be only a debug and or pre-RC build for testing.

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