Rumor: Windows 8.1 Update 2 coming August 12—sans Start menu

The next big update to Windows 8.1 may be just a few weeks away—but don't get too excited.

According to WinBeta, evidence posted by Russian site PC Portal suggests Windows 8.1 Update 2 is on track for an August 12 release. However, WinBeta adds that the update will mostly comprise small tweaks and bug fixes. The feature we've all been waiting for, the resurrected Start menu, has apparently been postponed:

Update 2 was originally going to include the new Start Menu, but Microsoft decided to pull the feature and save it for Threshold. Update 2 will include no new features, and will most likely be preparing for Threshold when it launches in 2015.

Oh well. At least the rumored August 12 date seems fairly plausible. It corresponds to Patch Tuesday, and it jibes with a ZDnet report from back in April. In that report, Microsoft watcher Mary Jo Foley said her sources pointed to a possible August time frame for Windows 8.1 Update 2.

Microsoft demoed the new Start menu at its Build conference earlier this year, promising to unleash it as part of a future update. Unofficial evidence suggests that Windows Threshold, the next major Windows release, will go as far as to disable Modern UI entirely on desktop PCs. On the flip side, the desktop will reportedly be off-limits to small tablets.

Comments closed
    • Lodmot
    • 5 years ago

    Uh…… so when exactly was Microsoft actually going to TELL us this?? In April they freaking promised us the start menu **for Windows 8.1 as an update**. >__>

    • Sahrin
    • 5 years ago

    We haven’t “all” been waiting for anything. I can live without the old start menu.

    • FireGryphon
    • 5 years ago

    Classic Shell helps hide Modern UI on my machine, and will continue doing so.

    Microsoft reached its peak in the early 2000’s, and since then it’s been afraid to innovate. The plateau it’s on has a downward slope. Such a shame…

      • TwoEars
      • 5 years ago

      Windows 8 + Classic Shell = How I Roll

      I’m also a “certified computer genius” among some of my less tech-savvy friends for installing this gadget on their laptops. One friend was so relieved he gave me a case of beer! Lol… tells you something about how the average person feels about Win8 Surface right there.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 5 years ago

      “Afraid to be innovative” is amusing to say the least – aren’t all their attempts at innovation what you’re trying to cover up?

    • l33t-g4m3r
    • 5 years ago

    No desktop on tablets, now where have I heard this idea before? Oh wait, WinRT! Which was mostly discontinued because of poor sales. Lovely.

    I predict this new tablet OS will sell just as well as the old one, maybe even better now that android devices have come such a long way forwards. lol.

    • MadManOriginal
    • 5 years ago

    qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq

      • hoboGeek
      • 5 years ago

      Time to buy a new keyboard?

        • MadManOriginal
        • 5 years ago

        Dunno, this one worked great with Windows 7. Clearly it’s Windows 8’s fault that my keyboard doesn’t work correctly, even though I should just stop holding down the key!

    • Chrispy_
    • 5 years ago

    For anyone who is still deluded enough after [i<]all this time[/i<] to think that Microsoft has [i<]any semblance[/i<] of a clue, I hope this brings you to your senses. Seriously - They must be spending [b<]billions[/b<] solely on researching the best possible way to troll and drive away their customers.

      • kvndoom
      • 5 years ago

      “That dratted PC! We’ll do [b<]whatever[/b<] it takes to get them to switch to Xbox! BWAHAHAHAHAAA!"

      • jstern
      • 5 years ago

      I think they are making a great decision on their part. The Windows 8 names is already severely tarnished, so might as well save it for Windows 9. Windows 9 will get a lot of more news stories, be more talked about simply because of the Start menu.

        • Chrispy_
        • 5 years ago

        I don’t (personally) pay for any of my Windows installs, but I’d feel righteously pissed off right now if I’d put money down for windows 8.

          • ET3D
          • 5 years ago

          I don’t think anyone in their right mind bought Windows 8 on the assumption that Microsoft will add a Start menu later.

            • Chrispy_
            • 5 years ago

            They didn’t buy Windows 8 expecting it to be such a UI disaster either;
            People bought it because it came with their new computer and they didn’t have a choice.

        • hansmuff
        • 5 years ago

        Windows Nein.

        I think they should just skip to 10.

      • captaintrav
      • 5 years ago

      I think it’s probably driven by shareholders seeing the big piece of the pie MS missed out on by losing the tablet and phone market to Google and Apple. Only problem is, they’re risking losing their deathgrip on the desktop/laptop market instead, while making little inroads in mobile tech. Shareholders want to see growth, growth, growth. At least I hope it’s driven by what shareholders want, and not just silliness of Microsoft trying to reinvent themselves because they’re jealous of Google, or jealous of Apple’s business model and riduclous profit levels.

    • internetsandman
    • 5 years ago

    Ok I’ve asked this before and I’ll ask it again, what ****ing nutjob at Microsoft decided that they should prevent customers from accessing huge swaths of their OS for which the code is fully present and functional based purely on the device they buy? I was debating purchasing an XPS 12, but at this point I’m actually thinking a MacBook Air would be less frustrating to use from an OS perspective

      • heinsj24
      • 5 years ago

      [url=http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/exec/larsongreen/default.aspx<]My guess[/url<] Also responsible for the Office ribbon.

    • tootercomputer
    • 5 years ago

    IE 11 in the modern UI is a wonderful browser, totally ignored IMHO, and I use it on my win 8.1 laptop touchscreen and my Win 8.1 desktop. It works great with a mouse and keyboard. It is now my preferred browser and this is from a die-hard FF user of many years. I would hate to see that option lost in in the new Windows. Why would MS disable the modern UI on a desktop PC? Just make it optional. I swear, common sense seems beyond the grasp of MS.

      • Goofus Maximus
      • 5 years ago

      I believe it is optional, as in you can enable it yourself. They do seem to dislike the word “optional”, don’t they?

    • DarkMikaru
    • 5 years ago

    Seriously MIcrosoft! Are you freaking kidding me? And I just got done convincing half my friends & even co-workers that Windows 8.1 isn’t to be feared but embraced. They’ve seen the new start menu and are willing to give 8 a chance when that update appears.

    Now… I guess they’ll just go back to sitting on the fence with 7. Ugh… your killing me guys… jeezus…

      • sweatshopking
      • 5 years ago

      what new information here are you freaking out about
      ??

        • nanoflower
        • 5 years ago

        That the Start Menu won’t show up until Windows 9. It had been rumored that we would see the Start Menu return in an update (and not have to wait for a new OS version.)

          • GTVic
          • 5 years ago

          Only if you stopped listening to update rumors 4 months ago.

      • maxxcool
      • 5 years ago

      The Microsoft sales team thanks your dedication.

      BTW have you heard of the new start menu in windows 9!? Sign up now for a news letter!

        • DarkMikaru
        • 5 years ago

        LoL, sigh….. well. 8.1 has grown on me and after explaining to my circle that 95% of the time your on the desktop anyway and that your interaction with Metro is minimal… it just wasn’t enough. But I’ve even had some members of our Dev Team say they’d consider 8.1 should the Start menu be there.

        But yup, what everyone said. Easy way for them to make more money with Windows 9. A shame really. As 8.1 could be saved with this I think.

          • Flying Fox
          • 5 years ago

          I have the tools I use pinned on the task bar so I don’t see the Start screen very often. That is on my dev box.

    • Rectal Prolapse
    • 5 years ago

    Anyone use Start8? I wonder if it compares to Classic Shell well…

    I’m considering Win8 because having per-monitor DPI settings is something I need now. 🙁

      • Xenolith
      • 5 years ago

      I’ve used both, they’re both fine.

        • Rectal Prolapse
        • 5 years ago

        Cool – which one do you use as a daily driver?

          • JohnC
          • 5 years ago

          Why not try them out both and make a decision based on your own preference? There’s even a “Try it Free!” button on Stardock’s site.

            • Rectal Prolapse
            • 5 years ago

            Ah – I didn’t realize there was a free trial. Will have to install windows 8 and see what happens…

      • Prestige Worldwide
      • 5 years ago

      Start8 user for a year now.

      Would have probably been just fine with Classicshell, but I rage-bought Start8 after 2 months of daily Win8 use. I couldn’t take it any more…..

        • ahmedabdo
        • 5 years ago

        hehe… I deeply felt that pain, and did exactly the same thing! It’s not the lack of start menu itself that irritated me the most, but forcing me to use that stupid modern $#%&*.

      • colinstu12
      • 5 years ago

      no need for either of them.

      the few times I’ve run across Classic Shell on client’s machines it was absolutely awful.

      • rahulahl
      • 5 years ago

      Personally I use StarIsBack. The Theme I use (Base for Win8) works with that software.
      So far I have not had any issues at all. Feels quick enough that it feels like a part of the OS.

        • GodsMadClown
        • 5 years ago

        Startisback for me too. The price is so low that it’s practically free.

    • kvndoom
    • 5 years ago

    Ah who cares? Classic Shell = WIN.

    As an update to a thread I had posted in, it seems that some July 8th updates fixed the 100% CPU problem. At least it seems that way so far.

    I cautiously await windows 9…

      • egon
      • 5 years ago

      As the reluctant family tech support guy who has a couple of relatives unwillingly using Windows 8 due to their Win 7 laptops dying, I care. Having to set up and maintain third-party workarounds for something they don’t want is a pain in the arse.

    • Ninjitsu
    • 5 years ago

    I still find it daft that they want to stuff tiles on the Windows 9 start menu. What’s the point? Take more space? But well, at least it’s something.

    • bjm
    • 5 years ago

    Keep in mind that the same sources for this rumor are also reporting that Windows Threshold will be free for Windows 8.1 users — and possibly even Windows 7 users. If true, Threshold’s adoption rate can potentially become the fastest of any version of Windows.

      • oldog
      • 5 years ago

      There are those that claim that MS sees its future cash cow as Office as a subscription service and that the OS will essentially become a freebee.

        • bjm
        • 5 years ago

        I definitely see Microsoft heading in that direction as well, but we’re likely a few years away from Windows being entirely free. Free OS upgrades are one thing, but I don’t see the actual licenses being free just yet

        It won’t happen until the WinRT API is more mature and much more capable. Until then, Win32 and classic .NET will be the way to write real powerful Windows applications and that means outside the realm of the Windows App Store.

          • WillBach
          • 5 years ago

          Developers won’t make WinRT apps until more customers have access to the store. Customers won’t pay extra for store access because they don’t like metro and see no value in metro apps. The only way to break the cycle of irrelevance is to give customers access to an OS they like and has access to metro apps at a price they’re willing to pay. That (to me) means giving windows Threshold away for free to bring the store to Windows 7 users.

    • Voldenuit
    • 5 years ago

    In related news, Windows Threshold will be rebranded “Windows One-Eighty”.

      • kvndoom
      • 5 years ago

      Good! Will it include a new “{color} {noun} of Death?”

        • fhohj
        • 5 years ago

        it will include an octarine sentry of death.

        you will know when something is wrong, user.

        you will know.

          • YellaChicken
          • 5 years ago

          +1 for Pratchett

      • maxxcool
      • 5 years ago

      YYEEESSSSS… +1

      • sweatshopking
      • 5 years ago

      Rumors actually are that it’ll be called “windows one” to tie in with the xbone.

      • ssidbroadcast
      • 5 years ago

      Zing!

    • geekl33tgamer
    • 5 years ago

    Said it before ([url=https://techreport.com/news/26776/rumor-windows-9-may-be-coming-this-fall?post=834612<]Windows 9 rumoured this fall[/url<]), and I'm saying it again. I bet these start menu updates never make the light of day for Windows 8.1. Why give it away for free when you can charge for it...

      • superjawes
      • 5 years ago

      I think it kind of depends on how much they charge for it. Making the Start Menu part of Windows 9 makes sense so they can quietly bury 8 and start fresh with a new release. I think that will work better for getting more copies in use since plenty of users are dead set against 8, even if it implements the Start Menu and disables the tablet environment (on desktops).

      I do hope that, if Microsoft decide to break into 9, that they will offer free upgrades to current 8 users. It would be great for me, and even better PR. At the very least they should offer a cheap license upgrade.

        • geekl33tgamer
        • 5 years ago

        It better be free, because all they’ve done is remove things we once had, put them back again, then claim it’s all new.

          • geekl33tgamer
          • 5 years ago

          Downvote that all you like, some people…

          • superjawes
          • 5 years ago

          I’d be open to a small upgrade fee, but only because doing a full release isn’t going to be free for Microsoft. They’ll definitely have to get boots on the ground selling the new release and advertise it because that’s the point of doing a new release…it’s a fresh start. They could eat the cost and worry about the shareholders later, but I doubt that will be easy.

          There might also be some license management issues if they offer the option of staying on 8 (this also creates another layer in the patch support cycle to manage).

          But still, if they do have to charge something, it has to be small (even if they pack in completely new features).

            • Ninjitsu
            • 5 years ago

            Well, no boots on the ground for a downloaded upgrade…

            • superjawes
            • 5 years ago

            “Boots on the ground” in a figurative sense. I’m talking about all the advertisement that has to be done to let people know, “Hey! Windows 9 is out! It’s way better than Windows 8!”

            • Ninjitsu
            • 5 years ago

            I dunno…you just have to place that in the Windows Store…a large banner ad that says “Hey, free update to Windows 9 for Windows 8 users! Discounts for everyone else!”

            Or just push it through Windows update…

            Whatever they spend on adverts will be covered by other users, and the Windows 8 folks (who got a free upgrade and notification for the same) will be the cheapest and easiest way to spread the word.

            At least, that’s how I’d do it.

      • ssidbroadcast
      • 5 years ago

      Hey! I already said that!

        • hoboGeek
        • 5 years ago

        Yeah, but you forgot to license it! So…

        • geekl33tgamer
        • 5 years ago

        Oh yeah, sorry. Guess we were both thinking the same thing…

    • Goofus Maximus
    • 5 years ago

    I almost bet that the return of the start menu will end up being a Windows 9 feature…

    I can live with Windows 8.1 update 1. The tile menu is now okay for use with mouse and keyboard systems, and I have it arranged nicely to my taste. Mind you, the “all apps” menu could use some collapsable folder luvin…

    • adampk17
    • 5 years ago

    How annoying!

    I guess I continue to use classic shell. I was hoping to not need it for very much longer.

    • ssidbroadcast
    • 5 years ago

    Brilliant. Just brilliant. Why give your user-base what they want for free when you can charge them for it?

    By the way, how much is Yosemite going to cost when it comes out?

      • w76
      • 5 years ago

      Good customer service and as a good-will measure, that comes to mind as a good reason.

      I think they know that, too, and would generally agree — except perhaps they can’t think up any other good reasons to upgrade from 8 to 9, so they’re pulling this feature forward in to 9 out of weakness. That’s my theory, since I think it’s obvious they could push the start menu as an update in Windows Update TODAY if they felt so inclined.

        • Concupiscence
        • 5 years ago

        You’d think they would care. But stuff like this is why a lot of people wrinkle their noses when they say “Microsoft.”

        • Ninjitsu
        • 5 years ago

        What? NO! They threw all their Start Menu code away when they pulled it out of 8! THE DEV COST OF A START MENU, CAN YOU FATHOM IT?

        :p

      • sweatshopking
      • 5 years ago

      i think the cheapest way to get it is with a macbook air. so it’s about 600$ more than the cheapest way to get windows.

        • ssidbroadcast
        • 5 years ago

        [spoiler<]It's free to people who already own a compatible mac. No additional purchase necessary.[/spoiler<]

          • sweatshopking
          • 5 years ago

          sure it is. that’s not news. but you HAVE TO OWN A MAC. the cheapest way to get into osx is an air, which is about 800$. a HECK of a lot more than windows.

            • ssidbroadcast
            • 5 years ago

            That’s still less expensive than the headaches and time-wasted on a cheaper Windows PC. Got an Intel IGP paired with a Radeon GPU? Have fun with drivers! What’s that? The brightness buttons don’t work anymore after the 8.1 update?

            You’re like one of those people that claim the iPhone on a contract is actually like buying a phone for two-thousand dollars. Conveniently forgetting the fact that A) That’s two years that you would need a smartphone anyway and B) Everyone else puts their smartphone on contract, not just Apple.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            No i’m not.

            you can’t install radeon drivers? it’s a wizard. click next.

            apple charges more for similar hardware. 599 for a dual core ivy bridge mac mini is steep. you could often find a complete windows ivy bridge ultrabook for that price.

            i realize facts are tough for you, but NOBODY IN THE WORLD, NOT EVEN APPLE THEMSELVES would claim that they’re CHEAPER than the PC market. you pay for both operating systems, just in different ways.

            • ssidbroadcast
            • 5 years ago

            Right. You get what you pay for. With Apple, you pay for a quality machine. With Windows, it’s a crapshoot. You might have a good machine. You might not.

            And stop condescending: I know my way around an Installshield executable. There’s more to the Samsung Ativ 6 than that. The radeon drivers for that thing never worked properly.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            that’s microsofts fault or amd’s?

            so you agree apple costs more? then stop pretending osx is free.

            you’re the one who said you couldn’t figure it out.
            And tell me about samsung and drivers. my ativ has driver issues too. i’ll never buy another samsung machine again.

            • ssidbroadcast
            • 5 years ago

            But OS X Yosemite is free. It’s free if you already have an Apple machine.

            If you already have a Windows 8 machine, and you were expecting to get a Start Menu without the use of a paid hack or third party, you were TOLD it was going to be free. Now (if the rumor is true) it’s not. So that Windows 8 machine will never have a Start Menu unless you pay money to make it not a Windows 8 machine anymore.

            There’s a huge, grand canyon of a difference there. Judging by your downvotes, your obfuscations will get you nowhere with this community. We’re smarter than that.

            Edit: Edited for a grammar mistake.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            WHAT?!?!? WHEN WERE YOU [i<] TOLD [/i<] IT WAS GOING TO BE FREE? SOURCE ME. my obfuscations? you've agreed with what i said. apple machines cost more. you pay for the os when you buy the machine. you agree with that. this group -ing me is fine. it's the reason i come.

            • ssidbroadcast
            • 5 years ago

            [quote<]WHAT?!?!? WHEN WERE YOU TOLD IT WAS GOING TO BE FREE? SOURCE ME.[/quote<] From a news article ran from [this] [url=https://techreport.com/news/26292/here-the-new-windows-8-1-start-menu-in-action<]very website itself,[/url<] dude. In the article: [quote<]Too bad the Start menu isn't part of today's Windows 8.1 Update. As Microsoft's Terry Myerson says in the video, we'll have to wait for a future Windows 8.1 patch to get the menu back.[/quote<] Just stop posting. Take a deep breath and walk away from the thread. Edit: missing a word for grammar.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            STOP POSTING? I DON’T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND HOW I DO THINGS.

            IF, AND THAT’S AN IF, THEY DO CHARGE FOR THOSE FEATURES, THEN IT WOULD BE A CHANGE, AND THAT WOULD BE WRONG. YOU CONFUSE MY ASKING FOR A SOURCE WITH MY SAYING YOU’RE MAKING IT UP. YOU OFTEN EXAGGERATE OR MISINFORM.

            HOWEVER, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT APPLE CHARGES FOR IT’S OS, WHICH IS WHAT THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT.
            YOU ALREADY AGREED THEY CHARGE MORE MONEY FOR THE SAME HARDWARE AND THAT THE COST OF THE SYSTEMS ARE HIGHER. THAT MONEY GOES INTO MAKING THE OS “FREE”.

            • Voldenuit
            • 5 years ago

            Whoa, that’s a lotta caps.

            • BlackStar
            • 5 years ago

            [quote<]YOU ALREADY AGREED THEY CHARGE MORE MONEY FOR THE SAME HARDWARE[/quote<] Nope, not really. Ultrabooks cost pretty much the same as Airs, and they have worse quality to boot.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            Ultrabooks with ivy bridge cost as much as a mac mini.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            In all fairness, Classic Shell is 100% free.

            • ssidbroadcast
            • 5 years ago

            Is there some sort of catch? Does it work well?

            • bjm
            • 5 years ago

            It has always worked well–even before Windows 8. It began as a way to get the original expanding Start Menu back that Windows 7 got rid of.

            In any case, you are a bit presumptuous when it comes to Threshold’s pricing. Current rumor is that Threshold/Windows 9 is going to be free for 8.1 (and potentially 7) users as well. That comes from the same source as this 8.1 Update 2 rumor (Mary Jo Foley).

            • BlackStar
            • 5 years ago

            It appears to be open-source, which is usually a good sign.

            • Wildchild
            • 5 years ago

            People use down/up votes as a means to measure someone’s argument? Jesus this sites commenters are just one big hive mind/circle jerk.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            Mac Mini is the cheapest way to get into a mac

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            sure. starting at 599. with a dual core IVY BRIDGE processor. you’re still paying for mavericks, and likely more than you would for similar specifications for a windows system.

            • 223 Fan
            • 5 years ago

            Because MS decided to EOL Win 7 around the same timeframe as we were looking to upgrade our Quicken app we decided to buy the OS X version of Quicken for our mac mini instead, because it will be cheaper to buy one upgrade instead of two. I don’t think I am going to miss either Windows 8+ or Office.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            sure. good luck to you. that has nothing to do with whether osx is free or not.

            and 7 ends January 14, 2020

            [url<]http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle[/url<]

            • 223 Fan
            • 5 years ago

            Free support ends in January.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            are you adding features?
            [url<]http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifepolicy[/url<] security updates continue. what EXACTLY is it you need that extended support doesn't offer FOR YOUR HOME SYSTEM?

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            General product support such as installation and troubleshooting issues with the OS.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            That’s typically a charged call, and will continue to be so.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            No it is not, when you purchase Windows from Microsoft you have free telephone installation support and a limited number of free technical support calls. Look it up your self.

            [url<]http://support.microsoft.com/gp/microsoft-support-options#For_Home[/url<] [quote<]If you purchased Microsoft software separately, like in a nylon wrapped box or case or as a download from Microsoft Store, you can contact Microsoft directly for support. For a number of products, like Windows or Office, and issues like installation problems, you can get a – limited – number of support incidents [b<]free of charge.[/b<] [/quote<]

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            did he purchase from them directly? you don’t get that when you purchase from an oem, as THE VAST MAJORITY of windows licenses are sold. for 99.99% of users, nothing changes.
            It’s silly to me to harp on something that only affects a tiny minority and extrapolate it out to the whole and act like it’s a major change.

            • captaintrav
            • 5 years ago

            You can get Office for Mac anyhow. I’m sure there is a learning curve, but it even has Outlook now, before they had some other app for mail.

            • vipera
            • 5 years ago

            $550 from [url=http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/897209-REG/Apple_md387ll_a_Mac_mini_Desktop_Computer.html<]B&H[/url<]

            • Concupiscence
            • 5 years ago

            For most non-mobile purposes the difference to an end user between Ivy Bridge and Haswell is pretty small, especially the set of users most interested in a Mac Mini. You could pay less for a comparable Windows system, granted, but part of the value to the customer is offset by the crapware too many OEMs cram onto the systems they sell. It’s a hidden cost of the Windows ecosystem that makes it less attractive to end users: while the OEM is subsidized, many users live with an inferior experience or find a technically knowledgeable person to remove undesirable software.

            Given the choice between a system that’s less powerful but polished with “free” ongoing upgrades for years, or a more powerful system with undesirable software, finicky licensing terms, and the eventual promise of nagging to upgrade to a new version of the same piece(s) of software they associate with irritation and necessary evil, I don’t blame a lot of people for going with the Apple option.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            That IB processor in the Mac Mini runs circles around the processor found in the entry MBA.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            it certainly does.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            So then what’s your beef against it’s processor vs the MBA processor?

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            my issue is that you’re getting last gen hardware and acting like it’s a better price vs PC hardware. I have no issues with apple’s pricing. I think they add value to their products, but i don’t pretend the OS is free.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            OK to use Windows, you have to buy a PC right? So with either option, you have to had purchased the hardware. That cancels the hardware part out of the equation as they are both equal.

            Even you have to admit, there is not a lot difference between haswell and IB in terms of performance.

            Next when you start comparing hardware, start comparing equivalent form factors and features. You will be hard pressed to match spec for spec in the same form factor even if you equip the PC with the older IB cpu (ever notice that the older intel CPU’s barely go down in price even months after it’s successors are released). Piecing one together isn’t going to be cheaper, typically it would be more expensive and even using a barebones system like a Zotac, you are quickly at or above the price of the mini and that’s even before you purchase that Windows license.

            The PC either comes with Windows included or you purchase it outright. Come the next version, typically you have to buy the next version of windows, if you have a Mac, the next versions of OS X are free. What is so hard to understand? That is what they are saying, and it is true.

            • BlackStar
            • 5 years ago

            BRAIN ANEURISM LEADING TO ALL CAPS APPLE SUCKS YOUR SOUL DON’T TOO LATE!!!111one

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            There is a ton of difference between between the efficiency of haswell and ivy bridge. They’re not the same. Ultrabooks, complete systems, with ivy bridge and a windows license cost the same as a mac mini, but include much more hardware.

            A zotac system with a dual core, 4gb of mediocre ram, and 500gb platter is not 600$. That’s just straight up false and you know it. It might come close with a full cost windows license however.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            [quote<] A zotac system with a dual core, 4gb of mediocre ram, and 500gb platter is not 600$. That's just straight up false and you know it. It might come close with a full cost windows license however. [/quote<] Go ahead and price it, I have just last night (from newegg). You are looking at a minimum of $500 without OS for the barebones, 4 GB of ram, wifi/bt, and a 500 Gig 5400 mechanical. Equivelent i5's barebone start at $400, add the hardrive and ram, that's another $100, if you are going with the NUC equivalent, you are looking at adding another $40 for a wifi/bt module and you are still lacking some functionality such as thunderbolt (which you may not use but as we all know increases the cost of the hardware by a fair amount). Add a $100 Windows license and you are now above the Mac Mini price.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            i put one together with 4gb of ram, a 1tb hard drive, a faster cpu and it came to 479. with a standalone windows it does come close. that doesn’t make it a free os however. even with win 8 it’s still more expensive.
            is it worth it? maybe. the mac mini’s pricing is reasonable. still, in the end, it’s not a free os.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            Links please.

            The OS is still free. When 10.10 comes out, it is free, when 10.11 comes out, it is free, etc etc

            When future versions of windows come out that did not come with your PC, you usually pay (with exception to 8.1 aka the Win 8 service pack).

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            I grabbed a zotac system from newegg for 379, and then ram and a hard drive from memory express.
            The os is free until its not supported. Which is typically a few years probably a similar time frame to how long people use a typical windows installation.

            I’m not sure what’s confusing. With windows, you license one copy and upgrades may or may not be included.
            With apple you license a copy and updates are included as long as apple supports your hardware. We can agree on that. NOWHERE is the OS free. You pay more money for an OSX license than you do vs a windows one, and it arguably is worth it. But you DO pay. I can build a faster pc, with double the hd for a lot less than a mac mini. So either apple is REALLY screwing you on hardware and giving you thr os for free, which might be how you look at it, or they competitively price hardware and charge you for the os. I really don’t care which you choose, but either way you’re paying them a healthy profit which they use to develop OSX.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            Again, a link to the Zotac please.

            [quote<]With apple you license a copy and [s<]updates[/s<] upgrades are included as long as apple supports your hardware.[/quote<]

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            [url<]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173062CVF&cm_re=zotac-_-56-173-062CVF-_-Product[/url<] Then we are agreed. Apple charges more upfront, but it might be worth it.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            Lol, you have a funny way of thinking it is equivalent. That Zotac has much slower graphics (both HD 4000’s yes but clocked considerably slower). The processor itself is slower (contradicting what you posted)

            [quote<]i put one together with 4gb of ram, a 1tb hard drive, a faster cpu [/quote<] [url<]http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-3337U-vs-Intel-Core-i5-3210M[/url<] Also you are still missing Thunderbolt which in itself at wholesale costs $35 to license from intel. (and of course you have a nice plastic box vs an aluminum case).

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            You’re right. I compared the turbo to base. Either way, we agree. Apple charges for their software.

            Thunderbolt has no value.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 5 years ago

            Conversely, what if you were spending or had spent $800 on a computer either way?

    • JohnC
    • 5 years ago

    Eh… It will come, meanwhile I can still use Classic Shell, at least on my personal devices.

    • Dr_Gigolo
    • 5 years ago

    So they will finally do what they should’ve done from the very beginning. This is the only way Metro can gain any significant traction.

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