AMD’s Carrizo will face off with Broadwell-U, won’t land in desktops

Following up on November's official reveal, AMD shared some new details about its upcoming Carrizo and Carrizo-L APUs at the Consumer Electronics Show this week. Among the new info: AMD has no plans to offer Carrizo as a socketed chip for desktop PCs.

Carrizo will feature quad processor cores based on Excavator, the successor to the Bulldozer architecture, along with next-gen GCN integrated graphics, perhaps with some of the same improvements as the Tonga chip inside the Radeon R9 285. Though Carrizo will power some slim all-in-ones, that will apparently be the extent of its desktop presence—marking a departure from last year's strategy with Kaveri, which found its way into both notebooks and full-fledged ATX desktops. Carrizo should, for the most part, power the same types of systems as Broadwell-U, including ultrathins and slim convertibles.

We got to see a working Carrizo prototype notebook at AMD's CES suite. The system ran some demos smoothly. We weren't allowed to take pictures, but the company supplied some official photography:

AMD isn't breaking new ground in the thinness department here. To be fair, though, prototypes are often bulkier than production systems. I'm sure will see more slender designs later this year.

Also being demoed was a hidden Carrizo dev box that showed smooth 4K H.265 video decoding. The demo was pitted against a Broadwell system, which struggled with the same workload. We're told Carrizo's UVD video decoding block can handle H.265 content natively without help from the GPU's shader core.

In terms of power draw, AMD expects to match Broadwell-U's "full dynamic range," with TDPs ranging up to 35W. AMD didn't share a lower limit, but it did note that Carrizo won't quite manage to slip into the 5-6W TDPs required for fanless tablets. We should "expect" Carrizo systems to be actively cooled, the company says. (For reference, Broadwell-U is available in 15W and 28W flavors, and some of the 15W parts can be configured down to 7.5W.)

Lower TDPs will be the realm of Carrizo-L, which will share the same platform as Carrizo while trading its Excavator cores for "Puma+" ones. AMD bills Carrizo-L as an "evolution" of the current Beema APU rather than a "dramatic departure." The company will also continue to offer its existing Mullins chips, which can scale down to 2.5W, for very low-power solutions like fanless tablets.

AMD's schedule for Carrizo and Carrizo-L is unchanged from November: both chips are still scheduled for a mid-2015 release.

Comments closed
    • AJSB
    • 5 years ago

    No matter AMD said to AnandTech also same thing that to TR about Carrizo is mainly for mobile and that it will only appear is Desktops in AIOs and mini-ITX with APU soldered, AnandTech doubts that5 is exactly true because of this:

    [url<]http://images.anandtech.com/doci/8871/System.png[/url<] One of the Carrizo development boards had Carrizo....in a Socket. Now, AMD answered to AnandTech when questioned about this fact , that it was only for development reasons and it might be so, no matter it seems weird to make a Carrizo in a socket to not sell it, but the reason why all this might be other, and this is only pure speculation from me and others at AnandTech: AMD have LOTS of Trinity, Richland and Kaveri in stock and needs to move them out...*if* a Carrizo, in lets say, a 45W version for FM2+, would be competitive with current A10-7850K, or even slightly better in games and was announced now...what you think would happen to Trinity/Richland/Kaveri stock ? Yeah...

      • the
      • 5 years ago

      Remember this is the company that paid Global Foundries millions of dollars to [i<]not[/i<] manufacture chips for them as it was less costly for AMD in the long run. Basically socketed Carrizo would have been product cannibalization at a time when they need higher volume. That means moving new complete systems vs. just processor upgrades that may hang around in the inventory for years due to low demand.

        • AJSB
        • 5 years ago

        Yeah, i remember that thing…and this is in a way history repeating itself except that AMD this time doesn’t need to pay for NOT make the socket version because officially, doesn’t exist.

        Notice that there’s a reason i say Carrizo-D would be likely 45W…when AMD started develop Carrizo, they said that not only was ALSO for Desktop but they were trying to achieve 45W TDP on the most powerful version of it for Desktop, or at worse 65W…

        *If*they indeed achieved 45W for that version, one more reason to kill the chip or to hold it as much as possible because the cannibalization effect over Trinity/Richland/Kaveri would be even greater making them unsellable or only possible to sell at loss…or in alternative, ask prices for Carrizo-D too high that on turn would make Carrizo-D unsellable.

        So, in conclusion, we only gonna get Carrizo-D when:

        1) Excess inventory of Trinity/Richland/Kaveri is out.

        …and possibly also …

        2) The amount of Kaveri sold made a significant profit compared to investment in development and production of chip.

    • Ninjitsu
    • 5 years ago

    Sup. Looks like AnandTech have followed up on your story, TR.

    [url<]http://www.anandtech.com/show/8871/amds-carrizo-not-on-the-desktop-depends-what-you-define-as-desktop[/url<]

      • chuckula
      • 5 years ago

      Yeah, that story basically backs up TR’s own reporting while using the typical spin on the situation.

      A “BGA” form factor desktop is just another way of saying: We put a notebook chip into a desktop!! Not exactly a new idea and not exactly what owners of FM2+ motherboards who were expecting some miracle were hoping for.

    • ronch
    • 5 years ago

    Wait, didn’t Kaveri feature full HSA compliance? That’s how I understood it when reading Kaveri reviews last year. AMD has been touting melding CPU and GPU together seamlessly since Llano. So when will the first true APU be completed?

      • chuckula
      • 5 years ago

      Kaveri is “HSA compliant” but Chorrizo is apparently the first (and only) product with “Full” HSA compliance.

      No, I haven’t got the first clue what the difference is either, but it makes you wonder what AMD is doing with these buzzwords.

        • the
        • 5 years ago

        My understanding is that it has a bit to do with how the CPU and GPU communicate with each other on-die. Kaveri shares the same memory address space as the CPU so nifty things like pointer passing for data transfer work. However, things like cache coherency cannot be accomplished as the CPU and GPU still have independent hierarchies.

        Carrizo addresses that and moves the CPU and GPU even closer. From a software stand point, this integration would let a developer remove code to ensure proper cache coherency between the CPU and GPU if necessary.

        (And yes, they can get even closer but AMD doesn’t seemingly what to repeat the mistake that Intel make with Larrabee.)

    • Kretschmer
    • 5 years ago

    I’m worried that AMD’s flagging CPU division is going to sink their GPU efforts. DP 1.2a monitors look tasty, but the AMD GPUs that support them require a healthy company to keep drivers on par.

    As the previous owner of a Voodoo5 5500 PCI (Mac edition), you can understand my concern…

    • ronch
    • 5 years ago

    I have a feeling AMD had no choice but to go with everyone else that’s using TSMC’s and GF’s low power-optimized nodes that sacrifice performance for the sake of energy efficiency for mobile use. Somehow AMD had to tune those Excavator cores for these so-called HPm nodes. The writing is on the wall, isn’t it? No desktop part, boasting about dramatic energy efficiency gains and targeting Intel’s low power (but perhaps higher efficiency) Broadwell-U chips. My hope that AMD will return to the high end desktop and server space with Zen is, sadly, slowly fading away. Unless, of course, they have arrangements with a certain foundry to develop high speed nodes.

    • Edgar_Wibeau
    • 5 years ago

    “Carrizo […], the successor to the Bulldozer architecture”

    Well, that’s wrong. Carrizo is the final implementation of the Bulldozer architecture. The Successor of Bulldozer will be Zen.

      • AJSB
      • 5 years ago

      You are correct…so much for the so called “expertize” and “in-the-know” from TR staff :facepalm:

        • chuckula
        • 5 years ago

        See my other post and wallow in your own ignorance of AMD’s own published roadmaps.. and you claim to be an AMD fan?

        You are truly an idiot and I can’t wait to post a link to Queen’s “Hammer to Fall” when they kick you out — again — Spigzone.

      • chuckula
      • 5 years ago

      According to John Byrne, the [now former] AMD Senior Vice President, Chorrizo has a “brand new” x86 architecture. It’s just Excavator but AMD is calling it “brand new” so it looks like TR got it completely right.

      1. Bulldozer — FX 8150
      2. Piledriver “new” version of Bulldozer — FX8350
      3. Steamroller “newer” versions of Bulldozer & Piledriver: KAveri chips.
      4. Excavator “newest (and last) versions of Bulldozer/Piledriver/Steamroller: Chorrizo.

      TR accurately reported what’s on AMD’s own roadmaps. Now you can quibble that AMD’s codenames aren’t really describing anything truly “new” but that’s a beef you should take up with AMD.

    • kilkennycat
    • 5 years ago

    “… Excavator…” ??

    Wouldn’t “Shovel” do ? A more appropriate name anyway for a family architecture apparently not targeted for the high-performance desktop.

    AMD doesn’t need any such heavy gear to dig their own grave. Continuing asset-sales combined with the persistent drain of technical talent is providing the necessary spade-work.

    • AJSB
    • 5 years ago

    …and YET….when we think that a Athlon 5350 is enough in the right circumstances to be as good as a Intel I3-4340…AMD FOREVER !!! :)) :p

    [url<]http://benchmarkreviews.com/16813/amd-athlon-5350-and-gigabyte-ga-am1m-s2h-review/7/[/url<] PS: AMD just announced the new Kaveri A8-7650K, an excellent APU at great price and there are rumors about a possible Carrizo-D for Desktops for FM2+ socket πŸ˜€ [url<]https://techreport.com/news/27653/105-unlocked-kaveri-quad-coming-to-fm2#0[/url<] [url<]http://wccftech.com/amd-updates-kaveri-lineup-105-a87650k-apu-demonstrates-carrizo-apu-based-laptop-ces-2015/[/url<]

      • chuckula
      • 5 years ago

      Sorry Spigzone — uh I mean “AJSB” — but AMD’s product lineup isn’t determined by whatever pink elephants you thought you saw after huffing the compressed air cannister again.

        • AJSB
        • 5 years ago

        I dunno who is Spigzone and i don’t give a **** about who he/she is, but i am AJSB.
        I’m AJSB at Phoronix, I’m AJSB at Overclock.net (where you can find one of my build logs), I’m AJSB at Steam, I’m AJSB at BFBC2, I’m AJSB at ET:QW, I’m AJSB at Origin (but i’m NOT the Chinese guy called “Ajsb” at BF2)….got the idea by now ?

        FWIW, AJSB are the initials of my name, that’s all.

          • derFunkenstein
          • 5 years ago

          wait, who are you?

          • ronch
          • 5 years ago

          You must be new around here.

            • chuckula
            • 5 years ago

            Check his registration date (today) and you’ll see how true that statement is.

            • AJSB
            • 5 years ago

            Yes i am…and only after started to make here messages, i noticed the constant AMD criticizing (not that isn’t deserved in a lot of issues/points) , not that really matters.

            • chuckula
            • 5 years ago

            I’m going to be charitable and put up a portion of what you post to the fact that English is clearly not your first language (I’m guessing German or Russian based on your systematic grammatical errors). Let me clue you in: delusional phrases like “the new Kaveri A8-7650K, an excellent APU at great price and there are rumors about a possible Carrizo-D for Desktops for FM2+ socket” aren’t going to fly. Just in case you are actually Russian, then let me tell you: putting up make-believe propaganda might have worked great for little Tsar Putin (until the oil prices did him in), but this ain’t Russia and we haven’t had quite enough low-grade Vodka to believe unsubstantiated fantasies: You better bring FACTS not opinions when you make outlandish statements.

            You want us to all believe that Carrizo-D is a thing when the editors of TR — who are consummate professionals and actually talk to executives at AMD — disagree? That’s fine, but you better have some solid FACTS to back up what you say. Here in the real world, merely putting quotation marks around what is obviously some made-up hallucination doesn’t magically turn it into a FACT.

            I strongly suggest you go read some other stories that have been posted here for the last few years. For all the so-called “constant AMD criticizing” you see, I’d advise you to go back in time to last year to see how well Intel’s launch of the Haswell “refresh” was received… even the so-called Intel fanboys like me weren’t overly enthusiastic, and at least Intel had the decency to overclock its existing processor line for the relaunch. Oh, and believe me, Broadwell is getting criticized left & right too, especially for the desktop overclockers who aren’t expecting anything from Broadwell-K. In this case, AMD didn’t even bother to put on a fig-leaf of higher performance, they just rebadged a lower-range part and you act like it’s the second coming –> Get real or get used to being flagged for what you are.

            • AJSB
            • 5 years ago

            English is not indeed my natural language but , FWIW, i’m not either German or Russian, not even from east Europe, not that there was something wrong if i was.

            As for Carrizo-D i clearly said that “there are RUMORS…” about it.

            I NEVER said that its a sure thing….but i guess that no matter your natural Language is English, you didn’t learned that well to read it.

            As for the A8-7650K , i stand for what i said, for *me* and the kind of builds i do, mainly HTPC & light gaming machines (and i hope that you understand what means *LIGHT* gaming machine and don’t start to say, as an example, “but it can’t play Metro Last Light Redux at decent FPS” because THAT is NOT a light game) , the A8-7650K is a much better part than any other *currently in the market* because its destined to be underclocked/undervolted anyway instead of OC so why should i be happy to WASTE money in something like a A10-7850K when i don’t need its power ?

            Yes, its “old” silicon , yes, its probably A10-7700Ks that flunk in tests, a thing that Intel also does launching “new” parts at lower prices with slight lower specs…time to me to say…who cares ?!? NOT me.

            Yes, i prefer to had a Desktop Carrizo NOW (if it ever arrives to the Desktop)with new color compression and new lower TDPs, but for now, it’s only a rumor and the A8-7650K will do…and will do MUCH better than ANY Intel part of same price.

        • Pwnstar
        • 5 years ago

        Funnily enough, Spigzone posts at WCCFtech and golly gee, AJSB posted a WCCFtech link.

    • joyzbuzz
    • 5 years ago

    Not believing it.

    “Though Carrizo will power some slim all-in-ones, that will apparently be the extent of its desktop presence” … ‘apparently’? … that’s very tenuous to support such a bold headline.

    Lisa Su’s said at CES AMD has a great opportunity to grow their discrete graphics market share with their upcoming AIB products. Carrizo is the first fully HSA compliant APU, there must be substantial synergy gains with their upcoming GCN 3.0 boards.

    It just makes no sense they wouldn’t have a desktop Carrizo product in the works.

      • chuckula
      • 5 years ago

      [quote<]Not believing it. [/quote<] Fascinating, so you know more about AMD's own plans than the AMD employees (high-ranking ones BTW) who spoke directly with TR's editors? You've got one hell of an ego there, I hope you can back it up. Hey, how about you watch [url=https://techreport.com/news/27392/amd-carrizo-apu-is-coming-in-mid-2015-will-share-package-with-beema-successor<]this video of an AMD Senior Vice President[/url<] and tell us how wrong he is when he says this: [quote<] "Chorrizo will be our APU that's targeting right at the heart of performance mobile and all-in-one for 2015."[/quote<] Maybe you can tell us the C-level position you have at AMD and how you'll fire that John Byrne guy for talking out of line. [quote<]Lisa Su's said at CES AMD has a great opportunity to grow their discrete graphics market share with their upcoming AIB products[/quote<] Yeah and so what? The fact that one part of AMD makes discrete GPUs in no way negates the clear developments of another part of AMD. If AMD has any sane people left they'd be jockeying to get as many next-generation Radeon cards into high-end Intel gaming systems as is humanly possible in 2015. [quote<]Carrizo is the first fully HSA compliant APU, there must be substantial synergy gains with their upcoming GCN 3.0 boards. [/quote<] Oops, should have read that line first. You obviously have no knowledge about how any of this works but you think you're smarter than everyone else by using BS terms like "synergy" because you figure we're all stupid too so it'll work on us just like it worked on you. [quote<]It just makes no sense they wouldn't have a desktop Carrizo product in the works.[/quote<] It makes perfect sense that a company with incredibly limited resources and incredibly high debt loads will start to shed product development in areas where it doesn't believe it can compete.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 5 years ago

        Maybe instead of C-level he’s in corporate marketing at AMD. “Synergy” is all the rage.

          • NeelyCam
          • 5 years ago

          Does anybody have a link to that sad “10 reasons to choose AMD this year” or whatever it was called? I bet HSA and Synergy were listed as reasons.

            • chuckula
            • 5 years ago

            Doesn’t actually use the word “synergy” but I think I found what you are looking for here:

            [url<]http://community.amd.com/community/amd-blogs/amd/blog/2013/07/11/10-reasons-to-choose-an-amd-mobility-apu[/url<] Sad fact: It's from 2013, but with a couple of date & product name changes they could just recycle it for 2015. I found the fact that AMD APUs make touchscreens more affordable to be the most amazing thing I've ever read.

    • NTMBK
    • 5 years ago

    Surely everyone has been anticipating this since AMD first mentioned High Density Libraries for Excavator? Better power efficiency and smaller die, but lower max clock speed. I.e. no point putting it on desktop.

    • DPete27
    • 5 years ago

    Awesome….we all know how big of a presence AMD CPUs have in the laptop arena….AMD’s CPU department is officially dead.

      • albundy
      • 5 years ago

      sadly…pathetically…yes. even though its been like this for over a year or so.

      • auxy
      • 5 years ago

      Eh? Most of the laptops for sale at Best Buy, Office Depot, and Walmart are based on AMD APUs. AMD’s low-power chips are VERY popular in laptops.

    • ET3D
    • 5 years ago

    Fuck AMD, that’s all I can say, for forcing desktop users to move to Intel. First the enthusiast range, now the APU range? I still might end up owning a Carrizo laptop if Lenovo releases a Thinkpad X150e with it, but it’s really annoying that there’s nowhere to go with AMD for a desktop machine or HTPC. It’s like they’re deliberately trying to make their fans move to Intel.

      • NeelyCam
      • 5 years ago

      They are just focusing on things that could actually make them money.

      Intel pretty much owns the high-performance segment now, partly because Intel still has a high-performance silicon process, while GloFo/TSMC are focused on low-power processes for mobile. AMD would have serious trouble competing and making money there.

      AMD kind of has to move to these laptop and embedded/custom markets, to have a chance to become profitable again. As long as Intel doesn’t start looking at the console market, that could be a cash cow for AMD..

        • ET3D
        • 5 years ago

        I understand the reasoning, but I still don’t like the idea of leaving behind users who want to use your hardware in favour of new markets.

      • LoneWolf15
      • 5 years ago

      Why be a fan of any one brand? Be a fan of what works best.

        • ET3D
        • 5 years ago

        For various reasons, such as business practices etc.

      • albundy
      • 5 years ago

      why the **** ? we all know what it is, especially if it’s true!

        • ET3D
        • 5 years ago

        I wrote the word and the forum changed it to ****.

      • ronch
      • 5 years ago

      Perhaps, after years of trying to beat Intel and failing to do so, they’re trying a different approach to achieve it: implode and let the FTC split Intel apart for being a monopoly in the x86 space. /s

    • chuckula
    • 5 years ago

    Ahh memory Lane…

    Hey Kids! Remember back in the dark ages of 2013 when some people thought that Broadwell would only be available soldered onto a motherboard while AMD promised that they would always come out with brand new socketed chips!

    OK, for some of you I’m sure you [b<]don't[/b<] want to remember, but HERE WE GO: [url=https://techreport.com/news/24191/trusted-source-confirms-soldered-on-broadwell-cpus<]Trusted Source Confirms Soldered-on Broadwells[/url<] Fun Factoid: That story came out just 1 day short of 2 years to the DAY prior to AMD confirming that FM2+ is a dead platform and that there are no new socketed chips from them for 2015 while Intel is laying the groundwork for not ONLY Broadwell-K, but Socketed Sky Lakes too! Interestingly enough, in early 2013 some character named Chuckula had the following to say: [quote<]While we're mulling over unsubstantiated rumors, here's another unconfirmed roadmap showing socketed desktop Broadwells: [url<]http://www.techpowerup.com/177817/Intel-Haswell-and-Broadwell-Silicon-Variants-Detailed.html[/url<][/quote<] Link: [url<]https://techreport.com/news/24191/trusted-source-confirms-soldered-on-broadwell-cpus?post=700957[/url<] I'm sure the two people who downthumbed me are lining up to post their apologies! This one's even better! [quote<]Actually Bensam123, Intel was the one who said that it would have sockets into the 'foreseeable future'. AMD just promised that it would have socketed solutions available in 2013 (meaning the same chips you can buy now) and 2014 (they mentioned Kaveri but made zero mention of any future upgrades or replacements for the AM3+ platform). Basically, AMD put on a big dog & pony show of repeating its pre-existing roadmap and crowing about how it comes in sockets. Of course, there is zero evidence that Broadwell is exclusively a BGA product either, but that hasn't stopped you from jumping to conclusions.[/quote<] Link: [url<]https://techreport.com/news/24191/trusted-source-confirms-soldered-on-broadwell-cpus?post=701037[/url<] So in early 2013, not only was I calling for Intel to maintain a standard desktop roadmap... but I also accurately noted that those little Boy Scouts at AMD marketing were parsing their words EXTREMELY carefully while letting the imaginations of their fanboys run wild. Now we have two -- TWO dead platforms (ah ah ah ah ah) from AMD: AM3+ AND FM2+!!

      • anotherengineer
      • 5 years ago

      I remember.

      And meh.

      Whenever either my old AM3+ mobo or 955 BE cpu dies, and I have to replace it, then I will replace it with another piece of silicon.

      Whoop-Dee-Doo

    • crabjokeman
    • 5 years ago

    [quote<]marking a departure from last year's strategy with Kaveri, which found its way into both notebooks and full-fledged ATX desktops.[/quote<] I wonder if you meant 'Kabini' here, which was aimed at mobile uses, but ended up also having socketed applications. Kaveri was intended as a socketed desktop chip from the beginning AFAICT.

      • crabjokeman
      • 5 years ago

      Then again, maybe you didn’t. IDK, AMD’s codenames and product lines got way too confusing after K10.

    • auxy
    • 5 years ago

    [quote<]AMD isn't breaking new ground in the thinness department here. To be fair, though, prototypes are often bulkier than production systems. I'm sure will see more slender designs later this year.[/quote<][b<][u<]THIS. MAKES. ME. SO. AAAAAANGRYYYYY!!!![/b<][/u<] LOOK AT THAT THING! LOOK HOW THIN IT ALREADY IS! It's barely thicker than a USB3 port! WHY does it need to be any thinner? What is the POINT? I HATE this demand for slim and light products that's consigned everyone to ultra-low-voltage processors, crap batteries, crap cooling, single-drive-bay GARBAGE computers! HATE!

      • geekl33tgamer
      • 5 years ago

      I blame the guys from Cupertino for this fad – iDontGetIt neither.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 5 years ago

        If this is such a big deal and there was such clamor for thicker systems with more battery life, why is nobody selling them?

          • auxy
          • 5 years ago

          [quote=”me in another reply”<]I'm not talking about "big" laptops. I'm talking about APPROPRIATELY SIZED laptops -- not 4mm thick abominations. Laptops that are ~1cm thick, not ~30mm including screen. I'm not looking for some kind of horrible abortion like MSI's TITAN laptop, just a normal, reliable, serviceable, performant laptop; one which isn't saddled with legacy crap like VGA or optical drives, and which doesn't sacrifice anything so it can be anorexic. I like you fine just the way you were, laptops. You don't have to pretend to be tablets or smartphones. In fact, I'd rather you didn't.[/quote<]Nobody is selling them because of the PERCEPTION that nobody wants them. Because focus groups and market analysts say there's no market for it. Because bureaucracy and corporate greed completely overrule common sense and practicality in the IT world these days.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            but everybody cries on the internet about how they want them thicker and more battery-y, or something.

            believe me i agree in the phone area as well. if my phone was about 1mm or so thicker to accommodate some battery it’d actually last all day. and to me that’s a bigger deal than a laptop because i don’t cart a laptop around all day.

            • Beelzebubba9
            • 5 years ago

            [quote=”auxy”<]Nobody is selling them because of the PERCEPTION that nobody wants them. Because focus groups and market analysts say there's no market for it. [/quote<] I'm glad someone here is clever enough to realize that the plural of their perspective is the same as market data. If only those greedy corporations would listen to the masses and not their so called experts we'd all had the RS-232 ports God intended us to have!

      • HERETIC
      • 5 years ago

      WELL SAID SIR…
      It’s sad that there will always be people that PRETTY is so much more important than
      PRACTICAL…………….
      To add to your list-My pet hate is no RJ-45…………………………

        • NeelyCam
        • 5 years ago

        Not a “sir”

          • auxy
          • 5 years ago

          Not that it matters, really, but, thanks anyway. (‘Ο‰’)γƒŽγ‚·

      • Andrew Lauritzen
      • 5 years ago

      Eh, in my opinion there’s two interesting design points: desktops with lots of power for the majority of my work and mobile stuff for traveling which absolutely should be small and light.

      It’s the weird space of big laptops (especially “gaming” laptops) that has no place in my life, although I do understand that there are folks with small appartments, etc. that don’t really have the space for a dedicated desktop but can pack a “large” laptop into a drawer or something.

      Hence why there are different options for different uses. It’s not like the larger machines have gone away or anything… 15″ and 17″ stuff is still very common, they just don’t make the headlines as much.

        • auxy
        • 5 years ago

        I’m not talking about “big” laptops. I’m talking about APPROPRIATELY SIZED laptops — not 4mm thick abominations. Laptops that are ~1cm thick, not ~30mm including screen.

        I’m not looking for some kind of horrible abortion like MSI’s TITAN laptop, just a normal, reliable, serviceable, performant laptop; one which isn’t saddled with legacy crap like VGA or optical drives, and which doesn’t sacrifice anything so it can be anorexic.

        I like you fine just the way you were, laptops. You don’t have to pretend to be tablets or smartphones. In fact, I’d rather you didn’t.

      • VincentHanna
      • 5 years ago

      Don’t worry, USB 3.1 is here so we can make it thinner next year.
      πŸ˜‰

      • VincentHanna
      • 5 years ago

      I’m not angry. I’m just waiting for the pendulum to swing back. I still strongly believe that the direction that Intel/AMD has followed over the past 3-4 years will be well heeled, and prove valuable. I don’t like performance/watt, but Intel and AMD pushed raw performance as far as they could, in fact, they arguably pushed it too far, with 100 degree centigrade chips pushing closed loop water pumps into the mainstream, which is actually kindof insane. I ran my Sandybridge-e machine as a bionic/Folding@home project for a solid month last december and the power bill was over $400. This idea that some people have that you could just keep upping the power draw, the temps, the number of cores on a chip forever, without stopping is, in my opinion, quite stupid and childish…

        • ronch
        • 5 years ago

        [quote<]Intel and AMD pushed raw performance as far as they could, in fact, they arguably pushed it too far, with 100 degree centigrade chips pushing closed loop water pumps into the mainstream, which is actually kindof insane[/quote<] Well, at least with Intel you actually got the performance to justify the power draw. Disclaimer: Not really an Intel fan.

          • VincentHanna
          • 5 years ago

          the package on my 3930k has a power draw equal to a GPU. I don’t really think it’s possible to justify that…

      • Chrispy_
      • 5 years ago

      [url=https://techreport.com/news/27604/13-3-lenovo-lavie-z-notebooks-are-world-lightest?post=873158<]Indeed[/url<]. I dare someone to make a Bay Trail notebook with a 1" thick battery. We have the technology, and we have the need.

      • ronch
      • 5 years ago

      0.5mm or NO SALE!!!

      • Beelzebubba9
      • 5 years ago

      C’mon nerds, even if Apple makes a 2lb, 15mm thin MacBook Air with two ports, you can still get your 13Lb gamer laptop with ports in its ports, GPUs in SLI, a cooling system for a nuclear reactor, and a 39 minute battery life.

      I know this is hard, but hardware designs that don’t cater to your usage model is not a threat to you or your interests, let alone a notion deserving of hate.

      • Kretschmer
      • 5 years ago

      My MSI Ghost Pro is an impressive desktop replacement at 4.5 pounds with considerable thinness, but I’d happily add a few millimeters and half a pound if it would yield +50% or +100% battery life.

      Thin and light are great marketing bullets, but manufacturers need that they result in feature trade-offs.

      • JustAnEngineer
      • 5 years ago

      The album dropped today (1/13).
      [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PCkvCPvDXk[/url<]

    • UnfriendlyFire
    • 5 years ago

    Their Kaveri laptop offerings aren’t that great other than the overpriced business Elitebooks. Lots of them are the plasticy 768p TN types in the $400 to $800 range or they have the silly “Dual GPU” configs.

    EDIT: The prototype looks good, assuming the build quality allows it to take some abuse without breaking in a horrible way.

      • LostCat
      • 5 years ago

      There barely are any anyway. I’ve seen one decent build out of the lot.

      I rolled my eyes when I saw HP put Kaveri with NV graphics chips. Boat’s over there, guys! It’s huge! How did you miss it?

      I’m hoping we’ll see some decent Carrizo builds, because my brother and I are planning to buy one.

        • UnfriendlyFire
        • 5 years ago

        I thought it was stupid enough when a laptop manufacturer paired a mid-range Radeon with an A6, and set it up so you couldn’t use both GPUs at the same time (integrated on battery, dedicated on AC).

    • alsoRun
    • 5 years ago

    If they can reduce the TDP of A8-6410 from 15W to 10W and put them in 11.6-13 inch laptop.

      • Tirk
      • 5 years ago

      Uhm they already have the A8-6410 in 13 inch laptops, for example [url<]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834258775[/url<] It is unfortunate that most stores only have the intel version in stock, despite the AMD systems availability online. Edited to add the direct hp store link for it as well since newegg says out of stock and I'm sure I won't here the end of it if I don't provide another source, [url<]http://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/us/en/pdp/Laptops/hp-pavilion-x360-13z-touch-laptop-g3s52av-1[/url<]

    • geekl33tgamer
    • 5 years ago

    Didn’t AMD say something about a new desktop CPU this year – last year – to replace the flagging FX-8 series (I called it the [url=https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=96393&hilit=+zendozer#p1218067<]Zendozer[/url<])? Isn't there also the "390X" coming? But not a peep on either of these at CES. Wakey WAKEY guys... :-/

      • chuckula
      • 5 years ago

      1. Zen is 2016 and AMD has never really said otherwise.

      2. There most likely is a “390X” (or equivalent) coming in 2015, but AMD apparently didn’t want to show it off (or was unable to show it off).

        • brucethemoose
        • 5 years ago

        Also, Zen has nothing to do with bulldozer… That’s sort of the idea.

          • geekl33tgamer
          • 5 years ago

          Yeah, I know. The name was a joke. πŸ˜‰

    • Platedslicer
    • 5 years ago

    If their GPU news are as disappointing as this, I might be moving over to where the grass is GREENER, if you know what I mean…

      • MadManOriginal
      • 5 years ago

      NO, I DON’T. PLEASE EXPLAIN.

        • brucethemoose
        • 5 years ago

        [url<]http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/embedded/graphics/eh1/[/url<]

          • MadManOriginal
          • 5 years ago

          “VIA [i<]Connecting you to the cloud[/i<]" :facepalm:

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            but I don’t [i<]want[/i<] to be in the cloud...

            • ronch
            • 5 years ago

            You WILL be in the cloud because we WANT you to be in the cloud!!

            – Silicon Valley

      • chuckula
      • 5 years ago

      Oh I DO know what you mean, but the New Zealand government now has a rule that you can’t move in unlesss you pass a screen test to be a hobbit-extra in one of Peter Jackson’s movies!

      • Ninjitsu
      • 5 years ago

      A Pink Floyd [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jMlFXouPk8<]song[/url<]?

      • derFunkenstein
      • 5 years ago

      OH I GET IT YOU MIGHT BUY AN NGREEDIA GPU OH THATS FUNNY!!!!!

    • chuckula
    • 5 years ago

    [quote<]AMD bills Carrizo-L as an "evolution" of the current Beema APU rather than a "dramatic departure."[/quote<] OK, in that case Carrizo-L is most likely using the older version of GCN in its GPU (not the newer version of full-Carrizo) and Carrizo-L most likely is *not* an HSA enabled chip.

      • LostCat
      • 5 years ago

      Beema is HSA already.

        • chuckula
        • 5 years ago

        Care to provide official documentation from AMD that shows HSA support for those parts?
        Because the press was told at launch that Beema/Mullins do [b<]not[/b<] support HSA: [quote<]One important note: Neither Beema nor Mullins include HSA features. AMD informed us that for 2014, HSA features are on the top of the performance stack with Kaveri.[/quote<] [url<]http://www.techradar.com/us/news/mobile-computing/amd-unveils-beema-and-mullins-to-flush-out-its-2014-mobile-apu-lineup-1199201[/url<] Even AMD-friends Mostly-Inaccurate quoted AMD officials saying they don't do HSA: [quote<]Mullins is just an ~2W version of Beema in the same way Temash was a lower power version of Kabini, the silicon is the same in both. Both Mullins and Beema were listed on documents SemiAccurate saw recently as having a β€œFull HSA programming model”, AMD representatives said quite directly that only Kaveri would support full HSA. We have no explanation for this backpedaling.[/quote<] [url<]http://semiaccurate.com/2013/11/13/amd-outs-beema-mullins-socs-2014/[/url<] How about an official document from AMD that goes out of its way to list "HSA" for Kaveri and to [b<]not[/b<] list HSA for Beema: [url<]http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MjAxMjA5fENoaWxkSUQ9LTF8VHlwZT0z&t=1[/url<]

          • LostCat
          • 5 years ago

          Sorry heh πŸ™‚ I did look, but not enough apparently.

            • chuckula
            • 5 years ago

            That’s fine. It’s still possible that Carrizo-L could have HSA, but I’m leaning against it simply because AMD would probably be advertising HSA as a big feature for Carrizo-L at this point.

    • chuckula
    • 5 years ago

    [quote<]The demo was pitted against a Broadwell system, which struggled with the same workload. [/quote<] Are you 100% sure about that? Other tech websites that saw the same demo claimed it was an Intel I3 [Haswell-era] -- not a Broadwell -- running the demo. Furthermore, if it really was a Broadwell, did AMD disclose the decoder type since Broadwell *does* expressly support HEVC decode using GPU shaders* but that functionality needs to be activated to be used properly. * Maxwell does something similar.

      • nanoflower
      • 5 years ago

      I had similar questions about the tests as it is very easy to game the results. I guess we won’t really know until they actually ship review products.

    • chuckula
    • 5 years ago

    [quote<]Among the new info: AMD has no plans to offer Carrizo as a socketed chip for desktop PCs.[/quote<] Wow, this must be a new record: One of my more potentially controversial predictions for 2015 confirmed less than 10 days into the year. [Edit: Tangentially, this pretty much seals my prediction that Broadwell-K will win the integrate GPU wars this year too... Chorrizo at 35 watts will probably have an excellent GPU for that power range, but there's no way it'll beat a socketed Broadwell-K with the eDRAM.]

      • Concupiscence
      • 5 years ago

      Another year, another span of stagnation for AMD on the desktop. I’ve wanted to root for them, but this is just sad.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 5 years ago

        Whether Carrizo came to the desktop or not, it was going to be more stagnation for AMD on the desktop.

        • HisDivineOrder
        • 5 years ago

        We all want to root for them, but eventually even the most dear family member must be told, “No. I want you to succeed, but no. I will no longer give you money to piss away on booze and hookers and blow and GloFo fabrication. No. I will not be the one to pay for the next fabrication of even more Piledriver-based desktop chips with slightly different numbers and higher power draws.”

        Tough love requires eventually realizing you’re not helping them do better by funding their bad life choices.

      • willmore
      • 5 years ago

      Unless you mean in price, but you don’t. You mean the typical ‘inexpensive AMD part vs 3x as expensive Intel part’ type of fight where everyone gets to nod their heads and tut tut at how AMD just isn’t competetive.

        • Andrew Lauritzen
        • 5 years ago

        In reality price is more a function of performance than the other way around. So if you’re talking consumer purchasing decisions price is absolutely relevant but it isn’t really part of architecture discussions.

          • NeelyCam
          • 5 years ago

          This. Price and performance go hand-in-hand. If you have performance, you can charge more. Or, alternatively, if you don’t have performance, you have to charge less.

          The curious thing is that since Intel has the majority of the volume, they essentially control the pricing across the board. If they push the price/performance lower, AMD has to comply or have no sales. At some point, the prices become too low for AMD to make profit, and that’s when they exit the market. This is pretty much what’s happening at the desktop chip space.

            • HisDivineOrder
            • 5 years ago

            The problem is AMD has completely lost control of the whole segment. If they show up with a superior architecture, Intel will drop prices through the floor and sustain them because they control manufacturing and they can afford to flood the market with cheaper product, even if inferior.

            And that’s assuming AMD could ever completely leapfrog entire generations of performance improvements they HAVEN’T made to catch up and surpass what Intel’s done in the many generations of tick-tock product releases they’ve done while AMD has been sitting on Piledriver in the desktop space. Sure, Steamroller offered a little gain. Excavator may offer a few more. Problem is, Steamroller did little to improve the desktop offering and Excavator isn’t even hitting the desktop space. So here we sit, watching AMD continue to peddle an embarrassingly ancient FX series that wasn’t even competitive when it was brand new and APU’s that are now even allowed to fall behind.

            AMD goes cheaper and cheaper because that’s all they can do, but it means they aren’t making money off the whole line. They don’t control the fabrication and they don’t have the technology to catch up (at least so far), so they lose money and are going to keep losing more money, too.

            And like I said before, if they were to magically catch up in a single bound to what Intel’s done over the course of MANY generations now, Intel could undo them simply by virtue of the sheer volume of product they can produce at low cost.

            Intel could stop innovating right now. They could shut down R&D for five years and AMD would not catch up to what they’ve done so far if AMD continues at the pace they have. AMD Zen is coming and maybe that’s magic, but we’ve heard this tale before. It’s a tale they love to tell. Reference the Phenom story and the Bulldozer story. Those also happen to be the last two major shifts. The future is always full of promise if they can just get past the bad present.

            This is why Intel doesn’t innovate in the x86 space except to compete better with ARM. In reality, they HAVE shut down R&D for products that are designed to compete with AMD. They’re now completely focused on R&D for dealing with the only real competition they have: ARM.

            And that’s why we’re seeing declining CPU performance gains and a significant focus on performance per watt and GPU improvements. And in that order specifically.

            This helps AMD not look worse than they’d ordinarily have looked because declining CPU gains and an increased focus on GPU lets AMD off the hook, but the evidence is in the way Intel is slowly drifting away from AMD via performance per watt, leaving AMD to waffle about and try to use BIOS tricks with old chipsets and old CPU designs to hobble after Intel.

            AMD is deluded if they really think they’re still in the game atm. This is like a cat playing with a half-dead rat that still thinks it’s got a chance and is biding its time, but the cat’s just having its fun. Batting it around. The only reason the rat’s not dead is because the cat is mostly watching the bird it’s going after next.

            • NeelyCam
            • 5 years ago

            That’s a depressing story. But I agree

            • the
            • 5 years ago

            There is plenty of room for improvement in the x86 space. The problem is that Intel knows this and has been sitting on performance improvements in the name of lower power consumption. Their current design rule is that a 1% increase power consumption has to provide at least 2% performance increase. Intel has been doing lots of research and likely has found plenty of 1% power gain with 0.5% to 1% performance gains. Sure, the efficiency curve would go down but in some markets (workstation, HPC, server), it would still be useful depending on the application. The same principle holds true for increasing die size vs. performance.

            If AMD were to become competitive again, especially in the desktop/workstation/server space, I see Intel forking their Core line and implementing some of these techniques that they have passed on. It’d take a few years to pull this off but it wouldn’t be too much of an issue for Intel: AMD would need that time frame with a competitive product to rebuild their relationship with the major OEMs.

            The real chance AMD has to break back into the server market is with their ARM based K12 chips. AMD can either go the lower power route via ARM or the aggregate throughput choice by going extremely high with the core count. I’m pessimistic that AMD will be able to retake the single threaded performance crown but there is potential in the other two metrics. Of course, AMD will need to get developers momentum going to port their software to ARM (well outside of open source platforms like the LAMP stack for web servers).

            On the x86 side, it is indeed a big leap for AMD but the performance gap isn’t widening due to Intel’s focus on power consumption. Sandy Bridge was the last big jump in single threaded performance. Ivy Bridge brought a marginal performance gain and Haswell moved things forwarded a small but noticeable amount. (Though Haswell with AVX2 and FMA is a bit different as those gains can be huge with optimized software.) Sky Lake is expected to move things forward even more on legacy code and brings AVX3.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 5 years ago

      This is one case where I was sure you were wrong.

        • chuckula
        • 5 years ago

        One of my more believable predictions will probably turn out to be completely wrong to make up for it.

          • derFunkenstein
          • 5 years ago

          There might be a reasonable explanation, now that I’m thinking about it.

          Kaveri, despite the process shrink, didn’t clock any higher than Richland, and it got torched in reviews. Carrizo probably doesn’t clock higher or offer substantially better performance at the high end, either, so they canceled the desktop line.

          It’d be nice to think that maybe GF’s 28nm SHP process has been optimized and Carrizo is a new version to take advantage of it, so maybe at lower speeds (like the 1.8-2.5GHz range, for Excavator) power consumption will be lower. So it’s worth a new mobile launch.

          Also, given how horribly slow they were at getting lower-power Kaveri to the desktop, maybe they’re a little gunshy about launching 6 months of vaporware again.

            • chuckula
            • 5 years ago

            OK, new predictions to keep things interesting going forward. These are actually pretty favorable to AMD BTW.

            1. At 35 watts Carrizo’s GPU beats Broadwell-U at 15 watts (it better), but more interestingly it also handles the 28 watt Broadwell’s with the Iris (not Iris PRO) GPUs. AMD still has some leverage in graphics and Carrizo has even more GPU (by a small margin) than Kaveri. The GPU scales better down to lower power envelopes than the CPU, so Carrizo does well here.

            1.5 This goes without saying but Carrizo loses by a big margin at anything CPU related — even 4 core Carrizo 35 Watt against the Broadwell-U won’t win the CPU war.

            2. If we actually see 15 watt Carrizos (not the “L” types but real Carrizos) then the GPU war gets much more interesting. They will likely be cut-down GPU-wise from the full-bore Carrizos (256 GCN cores? maybe 384?) and be running in the “2 coar” mode. Once again at CPU Broadwell-U clearly wins, but at GPU I can see them pretty evenly matched.

            3. Carrizo-L isn’t beating Broadwell-U in the GPU wars, however. AMD hasn’t done enough with those chips and Broadwell *does* have a stronger IGP.

            4. Broadwell still wins the GPU wars with Iris Pro, even the 47-watt heavy laptop versions. The win isn’t due to GPU magic but to the added bandwidth boost. AMD needs HBM or something to get the IGPs unbound from dual-channel DDR3.

            5. My theory as to WHY Carrizo won’t see desktops (aside from economics): Just like derFunk said, AMD ran the internal tests and it just won’t outperform Kaveri at higher clockspeeds. Additionally, for technical and economic reasons the on-package RAM just wasn’t going to happen in this generation. I think that if they could have done a high-speed RAM of some type, then even with the clock headroom issues they would have pursued some sort of desktop part.

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