Windows 10 will be a free upgrade for the first year

During its Windows 10 event in Redmond this morning, Microsoft announced that the new OS will be a free upgrade for the first year after launch. Folks running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 will all be able to get the latest hotness free of charge.

The freebie was introduced by Terry Myerson, Microsoft's executive VP for operating systems. Interestingly, Myerson also said that Windows 10 is "so much more than a free, one-time upgrade." "With Windows 10, we think of Windows as a service," he said, adding that the OS "redefines the relationship between us and our customers."

Hmmm.

Meyerson stopped short of mentioning subscription-style pricing, but it sounds like that could be a future possibility for the OS. Microsoft wants to get more users on the same version of the Windows, making it easier for the company to push out updates—and for developers to target a larger audience.

Update: During a subsequent Q&A session that wasn't part of the live stream, Microsoft head Satya Nadella reportedly said references to Windows 10 as a service relate to how the operating system will be updated—not to how customers will pay for it. Microsoft watcher Mary Jo Foley tweets "Nadella says calling #Windows10 a service does not imply change in biz model." #Phew.

Comments closed
    • BIF
    • 5 years ago

    This is definitely a push for subscriptions.

    Every time you sign up for a new subscription such as for Office 365, Adobe CC, Photoshop (because it’s “only” $10 per month), etc, then you’re showing these companies that you are “trainable”. Everybody’s got one now; a monthly payment that will add up to big dollars over the course of a year. And you have been trained to pay it.

    It’s basic human behavior and we’re only going to get more of the same. Everybody should resist an OS subscription. If we don’t, then in ten years we’ll probably have one for every Windows, MacOS, iOS, Android, and Linux computer in the house, and maybe for your smart TV, refrigerator, and car too, since everything we own now has a Linux OS.

      • Ifalna
      • 5 years ago

      Well I wouldn’t accept a sub-OS because that would mean my entire computer gets useless if somehow I don’t want that sub anymore.

      But I do have a 365 Sub because I want to use OneDrive as an off site backup. Them giving me Office was a bonus.

      Also I do play WoW for 8 years now. So, no, I don’t see the inherent “Subscription = evil” thing.

        • BIF
        • 5 years ago

        If you use it, great. If you feel you get the needed value out of it, great. If you can live with the service going away once you get hit with a job loss or other family emergency, great.

        Just know that when you sign up, you are doing your part to perpetuate the model for the rest of the world. We’re all becoming locked in.

        I suggest that we at least put up SOME resistance to the collar and leash (and that’s what subs are). Just on principle.

    • MarkD
    • 5 years ago

    Here’s a new OS. Go ahead, use it. We won’t tell you how much it’s going to cost you, but we will wait until you’ve invested heavily in applications that run on it.

    Meth dealers have nothing on Microsoft.

    • Shouefref
    • 5 years ago

    IT LOOKS AS IF SSK IS AFRAID HIS MS SHARES WILL PLUNGE.

      • sweatshopking
      • 5 years ago

      HAHAHA I DON’T HAVE MS STOCK. I’M POOR. I DON’T OWN ANY STOCK.

      • sweatshopking
      • 5 years ago

      I HONESTLY LIKE YOUR POSTS THOUGH. I THINK THEY’RE FUNNY, AND I ENJOY YOU. <3

    • Shouefref
    • 5 years ago

    I would certainly not install it before others have done so and make it clear what the dangers are.
    Because dangers there will be.

    • gdonner
    • 5 years ago

    Windows 10 (read: Windows 8.2) is so bad, Microsoft is literally giving it away.

    No thanks.

    When will they ever learn? (rhetorical question)

    • Shouefref
    • 5 years ago

    There is no reason why MS should use the same sales policy in every country.
    So, in the west they could try to inforce subscription based models to “rent” the OS.
    In other countries, they might choose to stick to the current system.

      • sweatshopking
      • 5 years ago

      except they stated no change in the business model.

    • Shouefref
    • 5 years ago

    It would be awfull if Windows becomes subscription based afterwards.
    Imagine: you give them the right to shut your computer off.

    • dashbarron
    • 5 years ago

    I get the disdain and distrust about the future possible subscription model.

    But I don’t get why more people aren’t exited it’s a new OS (and it is to M$), for free, which effectively will refresh the lifecycle support, plus all the extra goodies included, Cortana and DX12 too.

    Seems like a win to me, get what you can.

      • VincentHanna
      • 5 years ago

      I’ll tell you why, if you want to know.

      Windows 10 is just PR. Its not a “new OS.” Its windows 8.2, re-branded as windows 10 for PR reasons.

      Granted, its a step in the right direction, and waaaaay better than 8.0, but still nothing worth getting excited over. Honestly, for most people deciding between 7 and 10 is still a tough call… and as far as I can tell, MSFT has no intention of making it easier.

    • Shouefref
    • 5 years ago

    Another question: which version of W10 will you get? Will it really be interesting for everybody who has W7?

    Another question: most W7 machines are a bit older. Will they run W10 to your satisfaction?

      • sweatshopking
      • 5 years ago

      Requirements are the same or less.

    • Shouefref
    • 5 years ago

    So, what it actually means is: if you have W7 you get a free upgrade to W10, BUT after a while the revoke W10, so your pc won’t work anymore.
    Great.
    I think I let this one past.
    Honestly, I wouldn’t have trusted it anyway.

      • sweatshopking
      • 5 years ago

      Your post is nuts.

    • Bensam123
    • 5 years ago

    This is how they get you hooked on the crack before they make you start paying for it. The first hit is free and after everyone is all snug in a rug, that’s when they slap on the subscription. MS is a giant tech-conglomerate, they don’t do stuff like this for ‘free’.

    • BlackDove
    • 5 years ago

    Now get rid of all the eye damaging blue and ill be happy.

    • Krogoth
    • 5 years ago

    Protip: The entire software world has been trying to implement subscription-based services for decades

    It is becoming more of a reality due to ubiquity of the internet and you have a generation of consumers who are used to the idea of subscriptions and microtransactions.

    I’ll be no shock that Microsoft will try to pull this with Windows 10 since they already tried it with their other cash cow (Office Suite) with remarkable success.

      • Deanjo
      • 5 years ago

      Making an OS subscription based will be far harder sell than program subscription based.

        • Krogoth
        • 5 years ago

        Not with today’s mainstream marketplace.

        I would have agree with you if was a decade ago. Not so much anymore. Apple and Google are going in the same direction as well.

        That’s why software guys have been “beta-testing” the market with micro-transactions in the past decade. They are now confident enough to go full force.

        Businesses are still going to go with support and licensing route that has been going on since the beginning.

        The only people who are resisting the whole OS subscription idea is the old guard.

          • Deanjo
          • 5 years ago

          Apple hasn’t been going subscription based with their OS. If anything it is the exact opposite. Give the OS away for free and generate revenue from the apps you run on it.

          They take a cut of what 3rd parties sell, offer your platform free. Apple just has to worry about the platform development / support and provide the distribution channel.

          A subscription based OS will have the opposite effect. More development of the OS and increased support because now they have to make the subscription worthwhile. People will be doing the equivalent of “cutting the cord” if the OS goes subscription based.

            • Krogoth
            • 5 years ago

            Apple’s OS are not given away for “free”. They are tied to the hardware cost like any of the other computer OEMs (HP, Dell, Gateway, Lenovo etc.)

            The bulk of Microsoft’s revenue from OS division comes from licensing deals not from retail and resellers.

            What is really happening is that we are seeing the end of physical media distribution. It was always the biggest obstacle to implementing a subscription-based scheme.

            People aren’t going to be cutting the cord as long as there’s no other viable options. Microsoft and Apple software ecology have a massive stronghold on their respectable markets. It is going an massive uphill battle for anyone who tries to disrupt it. *nix never had any real success in the mainstream market. It is for a large number of reasons.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            [quote<]Apple's OS are not given away for "free". They are tied to the hardware cost like any of the other computer OEMs (HP, Dell, Gateway, Lenovo etc.) [/quote<] You don't get the next version of Windows typically free with those other systems. They are a one and done unless the installed version of windows is just about to be replaced. Also those other vendors pay MS for operating system which that passed on to the consumer. Apples is all in house. It is very different. [quote<]People aren't going to be cutting the cord as long as there's no other viable options.[/quote<] That's the thing, there are viable options and it is just that the vast majority have not had any reason to look elsewhere yet. Just as there are viable options to "cutting the cable" and the #1 factor for people cutting the cord is cost. Having to pay a one time expense and having something that will get the job done is very different than a rental situation. It is a very real motivator for people to start seeking alternatives where they do not have to fear the "next bill". There will also be push back from the hardware vendors. They depend on that bundled copy of windows to further entice and motivate people to get new hardware. In a subscription based OS model that key and probably #1 reason for people to upgrade that hardware it is gone. When OEM's start balking, then the component manufacturers will start as well. If corporate was the only money maker, then those companies wouldn't even bother with the home market at all. Remember the blow back when it was rumoured that the Xbox one was only to be digital distribution and paid subscription only? People went ballistic. One place where a subscription model may work is actually in corporate as those entities can treat it as a support contract. It would be sure a lot nicer than having to worry about valid licenses being used, additional seat licensing, etc etc.

    • VincentHanna
    • 5 years ago

    I was pleasantly surprised that Windows 10 will be a free-upgrade for windows 7 and 8, that means I have dozens of potential windows 8 licenses waiting in the wings…

    however, MSFT promised when they launched 8 that they were done with the old $100 every 10 years (in practice, more like $100 every time you upgrade your PC) model, so I’m less surprised that the upgrade from 8 and 8.1 is free. Glad they kept their word.

      • FuturePastNow
      • 5 years ago

      Honestly, as someone who replaces his desktop PC every 4-5 years (and will probably be building a new one this year), I’m pretty OK with a one-time-per build $100ish.

      I do not want some kind of subscription model for Windows.

        • VincentHanna
        • 5 years ago

        MSFT said during the presentation that they weren’t “necessarilly” moving to a subscription service. Likely, they haven’t exactly settled on a specific pricing model, but I don’t think they are going to start charging you a monthly or yearly fee to use windows.

        Since the announcement I’ve heard a dozen different guesses, using office and the app store to subsidize windows as a platform, a lifetime-of-the-pc support scheme that would probably fit your specific usage case [i<]better[/i<] than the current model, a "freemium" OS that pimps its access and users to make money. Its all rumor and speculation at this point.

          • _ppi
          • 5 years ago

          Frankly, if they do as now, i.e. jsut sell the copy and you get device-lifetime upgrade (think OEM license), it still benefits M$, even without any subscription fees.
          1) Almost nobody upgrades Windows versions (see XP; companies have different licensing model anyway), so the loss is negligible
          2) They save on maintenance of old Windows versions
          3) They have happier developers

    • smilingcrow
    • 5 years ago

    Very good move on MS’s part. It looks as if they have accepted the fallout over Windows 8 and are aiming to win back the hearts and minds.
    Also makes good business sense to shift people quickly over to the new platform which is much more cross-platform so helps them to reach developers who will target more than just the desktop. Well that’s their hope anyway.

    It’s clearly not a subscription related freebie as that would be madness on a scale even MS would find it hard to stoop to.

    • MadManOriginal
    • 5 years ago

    Free. THAT’S HOW THEY GET YOU HOOKED.

    • sweatshopking
    • 5 years ago

    INFORMATION ON WINDOWS AS A SERVICE: [url<]http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/01/21/more-on-todays-win-10-update-free-offer-dx12-more-xbox-games/[/url<]

      • ThatStupidCat
      • 5 years ago

      Just read that and it looks like the upgrade will be free. The part about asking to be paid after 1 year might refer to those installing it for free during the trial period. As a service? Well best I can think of is that it’s going to be a tool to deliver everything to you. I’m relieved to say the least and wrong in what I originally thought.

      edit:
      I hope they’ll have an upgrade path that allows a clean install. I’m sure they can find a way.

      • ThatStupidCat
      • 5 years ago

      From the above article it says “DirectX 12 will, we’re told, only work with Windows 10” and that “if you want the full benefits of DX12, you’re going to need a DX12 card” which means my next graphics card upgrade will come after Win10 comes out. Just in time for black Friday sales in 2015 which likely means lots of good cards that fit my needs on sale! Also means I won’t be playing Witcher 3 until Jan 2016 at the earliest. Will be watching how this develops.

    • anotherengineer
    • 5 years ago

    Well time will tell what/if subscription(s) or full license pricing will be.

    I got W7 pro oem for about $150 in Jan. 2010 and ext. support goes to Jan 2020.
    [url<]http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows/lifecycle[/url<] So if subscription pricing works out to about the same ($15/yr or $1.25/mo) that's fine. If not, I will use my 8.1 license until Jan.2023 then go from there. Maybe 8 years down the road GabeN will have proliferated enough games and driver support into Linux, to make the transition much easier. Cheers MS

    • kamikaziechameleon
    • 5 years ago

    “Meyerson stopped short of mentioning subscription-style pricing, but it sounds like that could be a future possibility for the OS. Microsoft wants to get more users on the same version of the Windows, making it easier for the company to push out updates—and for developers to target a larger audience.”

    Lets see what the competition is doing in this front… Oh free OS… Free apps… WOW! Then they control the 3rd party customer relationship charging a insubstantial tax (one that is usually present regardless just changes who the middle man is). Hmmm… I like that.

    • sweatshopking
    • 5 years ago

    THERE IS LITERALLY NO WAY MICROSOFT COULD CHARGE MONTHLY, TO THE BILLIONS OF USERS, THAT MOST OF WHOM IN THE DEVELOPING WORLD, DON’T EVEN HAVE CREDIT CARDS, FOR THE BASE OS. YOU GUYS ARE NUTS WITH THIS.

    THEY’VE ALREADY CLARIFIED THAT THERE WILL BE FEES FOR ENTERPRISE FOR ADDITIONAL, NON BASE, OPERATING SYSTEM FEATURES. YOUR GRANDMOTHER ISN’T GOING TO PAY 5$ A MONTH FOR HER COMPUTER. NOBODY IS GOING TO DO THAT. THEY MADE A STORE SO THEY CAN TAKE YOUR MONEY THAT WAY. AND IF YOUR MOM IS ANYTHING LIKE MINE, SHE’LL BE BUYING STUPID APPS ALL THE TIME, AND PAYING FARRR MORE THAN SHE WOULD HAVE IF SHE JUST BOUGHT THE OS.

      • geekl33tgamer
      • 5 years ago

      You finished?

        • sweatshopking
        • 5 years ago

        WHAT A DUMB QUESTION. I CAN TALK FOREVER.

          • geekl33tgamer
          • 5 years ago

          That’s unfortunate. 😉

            • A_Pickle
            • 5 years ago

            Take solace in the knowledge that he, factually, cannot talk forever. The First Law of Thermodynamics forbids it.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            YOU REALLY THINK I AM RESTRAINED BY THERMODYNAMICS?!?! COME ON PICKLE. YOU KNOW BETTER.

          • the
          • 5 years ago

          But can you…. if we take your capslock key away?

      • kamikaziechameleon
      • 5 years ago

      I agree, gave you a +1 🙂

      • derFunkenstein
      • 5 years ago

      they only thing that hasn’t been clarified (by you or anyone else at MS) is what the “supported life” of a PC is, and what will happen when a PC reaches it.

      Otherwise, I agree. I don’t think people read your post because it’s all caps.

        • sweatshopking
        • 5 years ago

        THEY READ IT. AND THEY VOTED AS THEY SHOULD.

          • derFunkenstein
          • 5 years ago

          so they should down vote you because you accurately pointed out that the vast majority of the market they want to reach can’t even pay the subscription due to economic factors?

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            THIS IS TR. SO YES.

            • adisor19
            • 5 years ago

            Yes yes, blame it on TR. That’s what I do as well whenever i get down voted into oblivion.

            Adi

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            BLAME THOSE ON ME.

      • crabjokeman
      • 5 years ago

      NO ONE’S EVEN GOING TO TRY TO READ YOUR CAPS LOCK GIBBERISH IF IT’S LONGER THAN 2 SENTENCES.

    • bfar
    • 5 years ago

    If MS introduce a subscription model, an entire generation of users (gamers mostly) will walk away on mass. And they’ve even set the date!

      • geekl33tgamer
      • 5 years ago

      Don’t see why your down voted – I’m not going to pay for my PC on a subscription basis neither just to play games.

      I may as well just move to another OS for productivity and get a console and pay for it’s silly subscription fee to play online.

        • geekl33tgamer
        • 5 years ago

        Ergh, down voting trolls. Explain why you disagree rather than just press a button. This is TR, not Facebook.

          • sweatshopking
          • 5 years ago

          I ALREADY DID.

            • geekl33tgamer
            • 5 years ago

            Noted. Fix your keyboard.

    • tootercomputer
    • 5 years ago

    I wonder how much money MS makes from OS updates at present, what the trend has been. I suspect that it’s not a big portion of their revenues, and if this is true, then a free upgrade to Win 10 is a no-brainer as it allows them to simplify managing their OS base.

    I have two home-built systems at home, two OCed Intel systems, one with Win 7 and one with Win 8.1, and I’ll take the latter any day. So I will gladly update to Win 10 on both systems (after making backup clones, of course) if there are no glaring problems.

    • geekl33tgamer
    • 5 years ago

    Edit: Microsoft has confirmed you will pay for 10 in the same way as you do now.

    [s<]Well there we have it, they mentioned "Windows as a service". Free or not, I've lost interest.[/s<]

      • Meadows
      • 5 years ago

      Yes.
      The only way I’d even remotely consider this is if they had a few SKUs to choose from, all of which should be under 5 dollars a month or equivalent.

      Any more than that and they can get off my lawn.

        • geekl33tgamer
        • 5 years ago

        Kinda agree, but if I keep this PC for 5 years, I would rather pay a one off fee of say £150 rather than £5.99 (current price of Office 365) every month for 5 years.

        Just an example if it was to be that cheap, so who knows…

    • adisor19
    • 5 years ago

    This is it. If Apple had any real intentions of destroying MS, this is the moment where they would release a 50$ – 100$ version of OS X compatible with a predefined standard set of PC hardware. They would still make a profit on each copy sold and at the same time, they would set fire to whatever ambitions MS might still have on the consumer market.

    But we all know that will never happen as long as Apple is making $$ by the boatload with their current business model.

    I think MS has reached the point of no return when it comes to windows for consumers. They will never recover from this. They will pull a blackberry and stick with the Enterprise and business market. I honestly think they lost the consumer market for good.

    It’s more and more obvious that Google will slowly erode MSs market share from the low end while Apple eats more and more of the high end all the way to the mid level. MS will eventually abandon the consumer market and just focus on the enterprise.

    Adi

    • alloyD
    • 5 years ago

    I think it would make sense for Microsoft to make it easy to adopt early. It might be easy to forget in this community of technical people, but Microsoft has had a real problem with adoption in the past. Everyone hates the new Windows OS until the next one comes out at which point they love the one they have and hate the new one. Making it free for a certain period of time might help get their critical mass early, which is… critical… (sigh)

    • End User
    • 5 years ago

    Too expensive.

    • WaltC
    • 5 years ago

    Yes, I smell a subscription, too. After the first year for upgraders. It’ll be interesting to see what Vista users (and XP’ers) will pay during year #1.

    Subscriptions would seem to be a slippery slope for Microsoft. Lots of licensing “gotcha’s” in a deal like that–like, when the sub runs out, does Windows refuse to activate and run any longer, or are you simply cut off from Microsoft Update at that point…? That also seems like a lot of added administrative overhead for Microsoft to have to manage in addition to the OS itself. Much simpler for Microsoft to keep upfront pricing, imo–you either have a valid license, or you don’t. Period.

    But, that isn’t definite as of yet. Would be OK if Microsoft offered both sub and up-front pricing, and who knows, maybe good sense will rule the day…;)

    • christos_thski
    • 5 years ago

    Hope they continue with the one-off windows purchase model.

    Asking me to pay a monthly fee for an “operating system as a service” is reason enough for me to jump ship to Apple, and I’m not even a Macintosh fan…

    • ThatStupidCat
    • 5 years ago

    All the companies now are looking for more and more revenues because Wall Street demands “growth”. Microsoft got a taste of the revenues from Office 365 and now they want more. Hint, there’s LibreOffice and Open Office for free. If Windows goes subscription model I’ll switch all the way back to Windows XP if I have to then look for an alternative OS.

    They want you to think of Windows 10 as a “service” like your telephone to make you pay a monthly. I want to keep an open mind but I’m already negatively biased against this business model. I just don’t like the idea of getting another monthly bill. Paying a monthly bill for Windows would be like renting shoes for every day use.

    • Shambles
    • 5 years ago

    I’m sure that this offer will be practically useless as they didn’t give out any details. I can see any of the following happening:

    1) Oh your machine is riddled with malware and needs a clean install? You’re SOL
    2) You’ve used it for a year, we’ve now disabled windows until you’ve either paid up or downgraded back to your previous version of windows.
    3) Windows 10 is now a subscription service! Buy today and get the first year free! (But we’ll get you on every single year following that)

    I feel that if it was as simple as a valid windows 8 licence = a valid windows 10 licence they would have just said that.

    • crabjokeman
    • 5 years ago

    So I upgrade my old Win 7 install to Win 10, and then I have to trust that Microsoft will not try and screw me over by making basic security updates part of a subscription fee?
    No thanks. I’ve played ‘Monopoly’ before…

    Actually, I’ll probably still try the free upgrade, since I don’t use Windows as my main OS and don’t have a lot of time/effort invested in my install. If it doesn’t work out, I can reinstall 7

      • bjm
      • 5 years ago

      Even if they do, Windows 7 mainstream security support is expired anyway. That being said, I see Microsoft using Windows 10 as a launching ground for their software services (one drive, Skype, office365, etc.) rather than an opportunity to charge for security updates.

        • crabjokeman
        • 5 years ago

        That would be fine with me, as long as there wasn’t a bunch of built in adware trying to get me to buy crap I don’t want/need.

    • sweatshopking
    • 5 years ago

    Not super impressed with the windows phone 10 stuff. Office? Outlook?
    wanted a ton of new features and abilities, not a few subtle tweaks. Skype integration into SMS is overdue, but really the best feature they announced.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 5 years ago

      Did they talk about Win10 supporting SMS and actual (non VoIP) calls from any Windows device? Moto Connect seems to have it if you have the Chrome plugin – relay the SMS and sound between the phone and the computers. Since the stream died, I have no idea. That would be bigger than Skype integration in SMS. Apple does this with Yosemite and iOS 8, too.

        • sweatshopking
        • 5 years ago

        They didn’t specifically state except they had more to share about IP calling from mobile carriers at a later date.

        • xeridea
        • 5 years ago

        Non VoIP doesn’t really exist anymore its all digital, and its going to be packets at some point. But in the sense you are referring to, wouldn’t that require a cellular radio or phone line hookup? I don’t see how you would reasonably make a phone call on a desktop without the internet.

          • sweatshopking
          • 5 years ago

          bluetooth is how it’s done on osx, is it not?

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            Wifi and an iCloud account is all that’s required for messaging and phone calls. Other Handoff features require BT4.0.

          • derFunkenstein
          • 5 years ago

          *sigh* fine, if we’re going to be pedants, what about phone calls that don’t require anything more than a phone with an active carrier account? Communications segmentation is really damn annoying.

      • Peter.Parker
      • 5 years ago

      We should notify SSK that his account has been hacked. His alleged post is not written in ALL CAPS, plus he’s not very happy about a Microsoft product, which can only mean one thing: THAT’S NOT SSK!!!!!
      WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH OUR BELOVED SSK?

      • [+Duracell-]
      • 5 years ago

      I don’t think they are subtle tweaks. It’s probably closer to a full overhaul; Office needed to be broken out from the OS (it’s still a Hub, IIRC) if they wanted to create a universal app. I did like having full Word formatting in the Email app, though. That area was sorely lacking.

      Other than that, it seems like they weren’t really ready to give us more specific Windows Phone 10 info in general other than what made sense for their “same experience across all devices” vision.

        • sweatshopking
        • 5 years ago

        YEAH, IT BARELY SHOWED ANYTHING. I WANT ALL THE THINGS RIGHT NOW.

    • Peter.Parker
    • 5 years ago

    I guess they finally figure out how to get rid of all the pirated versions of Windows. Althought I’m sure a lot of people will keep their Windows XPs…
    According to this stats [url<]http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201312-201412[/url<] show that around 12% of the world is still using this antiquated OS.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 5 years ago

      that percentage drops precipitously if you leave China out.

        • Peter.Parker
        • 5 years ago

        Not really.
        Use North-America as Region and you’ll see more or less the same percentage of users.
        Africa has the highest percentage of XP users (around 20%).

          • derFunkenstein
          • 5 years ago

          Huh. These numbers aren’t anything like the NetMarketShare numbers. My bad. NetMarketShare shows worldwide XP at 18%, considerably higher, and Ars pointed out that the number drops when leaving out China. I’ll dig up the link.

    • rpjkw11
    • 5 years ago

    I assume the upgrade would be just that. I remember reading that Windows Vista was OK as a clean install, but really sucked big time as an add-on upgrade. I would hope Win 10 would not see history repeated. I’ve never done anything except a clean installation, so I have my concerns taking “short cuts”.

    • sweatshopking
    • 5 years ago

    YOU GET YOUR CROSS PLATFORM GAMING, NERDS.

      • Deanjo
      • 5 years ago

      Depends what your definition of “cross-platform” is.

        • sweatshopking
        • 5 years ago

        playing your pc games with your xbone friends? I think that’s the normal definition.

          • Deanjo
          • 5 years ago

          No, playing on other devices regardless of the OS would be the normal definition.

          Cross-platform != Devices running Win 10.

          Steam for example will allow me to run games I have purchase a game and run the same game on Windows / OS X / Linux (as well as play others on another OS).

          That’s cross -platform.

            • curtisb
            • 5 years ago

            [quote<]Steam for example will allow me to run games I have purchase a game and run the same game on Windows / OS X / Linux (as well as play others on another OS).[/quote<] [b<]Steam[/b<] does not let you do that. The developer that created binaries for each of the operating systems let you do that. You aren't going to play a game on OS X if there isn't a way to run it on OS X...Steam or not.

            • Terra_Nocuus
            • 5 years ago

            [b<]Steam[/b<] [i<]does[/i<] give you access to [b<]Steamplay[/b<] when you buy a game that supports it.

            • adisor19
            • 5 years ago

            Damn, lots of haters out there. Your definition is the correct one.

            Adi

          • xeridea
          • 5 years ago

          That has nothing to do with the OS, and a lot to do with the fact that keyboard/mouse players have a huge advantage over console players. Some games that were more controller oriented (like racing) would be fine, though developers have just kept them all separate for the input reason.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            it can have a lot to do with the OS. you’re right about the advantage though.

            • xeridea
            • 5 years ago

            I could see it being easier to do if XBL connectivity was built into the OS, it could also be done just by a running service though. I was kind of more hinting at just the network communication between game and servers, I don’t know how much of this is ran through XBL or PSN so I am just theorizing.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 5 years ago

      lolololololololol streaming from Xbone to PC is hardly what they wanted.

        • Duct Tape Dude
        • 5 years ago

        They showed a game where one person was playing on PC, together with someone who was playing on the Xbox.

          • derFunkenstein
          • 5 years ago

          Ars needs to update their article then:

          [url<]http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/01/microsoft-announces-xbox-app-for-windows-10/[/url<] I quit watching the live stream about 10 minutes in because of buffering problems.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            Maybe. Just so there is no confusion, there will be full (provided games support it, but the xbone and win 10 will have support) for cross platform play that can be launched easily from the xbox app.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            OK. All that article currently says is that you can stream from the Xbone to the PC and play with an Xbone controller.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            You CAN do that too.

            • VincentHanna
            • 5 years ago

            this is how that rumor started with the Xbox being able to share it’s library with 10 friends as in 1 game shared by 10 people…

            then when the feature, which never existed, was pulled, people flipped out.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            it did exist, was announced at e3, and then when they flipped out, pulled.

        • sweatshopking
        • 5 years ago

        I’m not sure why people are saying that like it’s all that there was. They specifically stated, and phil played, fable from his alienware (that’s the ENTIRE REASON they had it), with that woman on her xbone. they repeatedly stated it was PC/xbone crossplatform play.

          • Deanjo
          • 5 years ago

          [quote<]they repeatedly stated it was PC/xbone crossplatform play.[/quote<] That's cross Win 10 devices play. Not cross platform

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            What? start watching at 3:10. it’s clear.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            [url<]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform[/url<] [quote<]For example, a cross-platform application may run on Microsoft Windows on the x86 architecture, Linux on the x86 architecture and Mac OS X on either the PowerPC or x86 based Apple Macintosh systems. Cross-platform programs may run on as many as all existing platforms, or on as few as two platforms.[/quote<] You can't even cross play between Windows7/8/10 versions.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            you’re trying to make a silly point that’s irrelevant.

            • End User
            • 5 years ago

            Thats what you do so well.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            AND ONE OF ME IS ENOUGH.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            [quote<]or on as few as two[/quote<] Windows 10 and Xbone. Boom, problem solved.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            Which are both x86 machines running Windows 10.

            Still the same platform in reality.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            So I can buy the PC version of GTA5 and play it on my Xbone?

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            You probably could if the DRM didn’t restrict it.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            Oh, because they’re two different platforms and the Xbone has one set of requirements and the PC has another?

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            No same platform, different packaging. You wouldn’t say a game was cross platform between an iPod and an iPhone.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            In that case they’re actually the same platform.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            Why? Because they both are of the same architecture and the same OS like Windows? They are different devices. How about this, Apple has offered applications that collaborate between iOS devices and OS X, is that “cross platform”?

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            I don’t get the point you’re trying to make. Yes, Pages, Garage Band, iMovie, etc. are cross-platform. There’s iOS and there’s OS X. They share some underlying core components and have some pieces of software available that talk to each other. There’s Windows 10 and there’s Xbox. They share some underlying components and have some pieces of software available that talk to each other.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            it’s that apple is better?

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            I guess?

            • End User
            • 5 years ago

            Yes

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            Then you have to by your definition also have to consider iPhone, iPod and iPad crossplatform. Not all apps that run on one can run on the other.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            Why? iPhone, iPod, and iPad run the same build of the same OS. They don’t have shared technology, they share the same technology.

            edit: typo

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            The X-Box is a PC at it’s core running the same OS right down to they byte code level. There is virtually no difference in a PC and XBox. The iDevices don’t share the exact same hardware either so by the same criteria that you claim the X-box and Window 10 PC can be cross-platform the same can be said between iOS devices.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            wait, are you now talking about the original Xbox? It had a Pentium III derivative and a GeForce 3-based GPU. Is that a PC, too?

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            No I’m am talking the X-Bone.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            Then Windows and Mac PCs are one platform. Same hardware, right?

            edit: that’s actually true, because I’m typing on a Hackintosh.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            If they are running the same OS and same family of hardware they are the same.

            Bootcamp was brought to Macs so that it still could utilize non cross-platform applications.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            So the only difference between iOS/OS X and Xbox1/Win10 is that the latter all runs x86? That’s retarded.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            No the XBox 1 also runs the same OS as well.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            I guess I missed that, too. It’s not a special branch of Windows 10 like iOS started out as (go back to the iPhone streams when the first one was introduced – Jobs said it was running OS X), it’s the full uncustomized Windows 10?

            • Andrew Lauritzen
            • 5 years ago

            No, it’s a different OS with some shared components (and realistically, all modern OSes have some shared components). I’m not sure where the impression that it runs exactly the PC “Windows 10” is coming from.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            There’s no impression that it runs the PC “Windows 10”. Deanjo is going down some weird path to arrive at his foregone conclusion that Win10 = Xbox = PC, and he’s not making any sense. The facts don’t really support the opinion, but he’s shoehorning it as hard as he can.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            So if I run a KDE desktop on linux and then run a Gnome app on it then it is considered “cross platform”? I think not.

            [url<]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_One_system_software[/url<] [quote<]It is a [b<]Windows based operating system[/b<] using Hyper-V and contains separate operating systems for games and applications that can run on the console.[/quote<] So the XBoX One is an x86 system running a windows based OS. Period. A Windows based PC is also X86 and also runs a windows based OS. Steam is crossplatform, some steam games are cross platform, Firefox, Chrome, mariasql, sqlite, z-7ip, etc are cross platform. Windows 8 kernel version 6.2, XBoX windows version... 6.2. [url<]https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-ca/library/windows/desktop/ms724832(v=vs.85).aspx[/url<]

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            Oh, sure, because I can run Android apps on my Ubuntu install without any effort, too, right?

            edit: look, I can do wikipedia too!

            [quote<]Android is a mobile operating system (OS) based on the Linux kernel and currently developed by Google. [/quote<] [url<]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)[/url<]

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            Ya, you can run Android apps on Linux.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            Out of the box, or with [url=http://www.linuxveda.com/2014/09/20/run-android-apps-ubuntu-kubuntu-linux-mint/<]extra software[/url<]? Just like you can run Android apps on Windows or Mac using a VM, this doesn't count. FWIW this is the last post I'll make on the topic. It's occurred to me your'e sitting in front of your PC beating off to ever answer you elicit on this stupid topic.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            Since Android apps work through a VM, in theory it can be ran on any OS that has the runtime component over to it. No different than a Java app or javascript really. That’s what generates the byte code.

            Hell Nvidia’s CUDA is more “cross-platform” than XBoX / Windows cross gaming. At least it can run on multiple operating systems and on different hardware (multiple Nvidia families of GPU and x86/ARM CPU).

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            Sure.
            I think most users think of them as
            Platform A) PC
            Platform B) Consoles
            and this would fit under their cross platform play.

    • Billstevens
    • 5 years ago

    As long a disabling service leaves with some form of stable OS. Maybe it will cut off updates and some services included with the OS. And as long as it is much cheaper per year than buying a new OS for the home version.

    • superjawes
    • 5 years ago

    So the takeaway is: need more information.

    Windows 10 will be a free upgrade (for people who bought 7, 8, and 8.1 licenses). That’s good! But the future model is what, exactly? The advantage of a subcription is that we don’t necessarily have to go through this version dance every 4-8 years.

    Then the questions are: how much does it cost? Does it come with anything? Is there an alternative? What happens if I stop paying for a subcription?

    PR missed a step here, and observers are filling in the gaps with all sorts of nightmares. (See this comment section…)

      • Duct Tape Dude
      • 5 years ago

      Right. We were given a quote and some hints, but no direct information at all.

      • [+Duracell-]
      • 5 years ago

      I don’t think a subscription model makes sense. Consumers wouldn’t want to pay a monthly cost on a tablet, phone, XBox, and 2 PCs. Something tells me they’re eating the upgrade cost for a year to get people to switch to Windows 10, and I think they said before there will always be full retail/OEM versions to buy.

      Something tells me they’ll switch to getting a cut off app purchases. They already do, anyways, but they need a way to get developers onboard with them.

        • superjawes
        • 5 years ago

        I don’t think anyone can say whether a subcription model makes sense or not without the actual model, and that’s a point I was trying to make–specifically with the “What happens if I stop paying for a subcription?” question. Microsoft could use a [i<]WoW[/i<] model, where you lose access to Windows when your subcription lapses. Or they could use a "freemium" model, where you get the basic version of Windows for free, as well as your basic updates, but then you pay additional subcriptions to unlock office, cloud storage, business/ultimate features, and so on. So first things first...Microsoft needs to lay out what this new "service" model looks like before we can truly decide if it is passable or terrible. Personally, I hope MS focus on what they can provide rather than trying to take a cut of app purchases. The result should be a better Windows (for the consumer).

          • [+Duracell-]
          • 5 years ago

          I see the “Windows as a service” mantra as to mean a “platform as a service” type, where developers write software for one platform (one version of Windows) that works across all Windows devices. That goes with the whole universal apps concept where developers can write an application that targets multiple types of devices with one common codebase.

          I don’t see it as a “software as a service” type with the subscription model like Office 365, although I can see where people are coming from since MS has set that precedent with Office, Skype and OneDrive.

    • Pzenarch
    • 5 years ago

    If Windows were becoming a service, I imagine the system builders (ie. Dell, HP) would be up in arms. How much harder would it be to sell us desktops, laptops and tablets (maybe even phones) if they all came with a subscription fee for basic use?

    Maybe the model would be kind of like Unreal Engine’s subscription model … in that you pay a monthly fee and get updates while paying the fee. You can stop paying the fee at any time, but you no longer receive updates That might not be SO bad … if they get the pricing right.

    • sschaem
    • 5 years ago

    Why would MS create this confusion ?

    My understanding is that MS is giving people a one year window (pun intended) to redeem/install the free upgrade.

    And here is MS dilemma.

    To date, OS have been directly funded by customers. You buy in a sense a ‘file manager’ program that happen to come with an OS update. And if you are happy with it, you might never upgrade.

    But iOS turned this upside down, its now developers that pay 30% of their revenue to fund the OS. So indirectly people pay for OS update with the 30% software tax levy on all store transactions.

    Apple is now in control of the update and can ‘offer’ free updates at any time. People simply have pre-paid for the OS upgrade.

    In contrast windows require you to pay $100+ if you want it
    So if people dont upgrade, since they dont have to, this fragment the platform.

    Apple is even using the mobile store software tax revenue to fund the desktop OS development, and can offer their OS update for free.

    I think MS will follow this model . Windows10 will be the last version sold.

    MS will simply end OS fragmentation with version 10 going forward, and this can only be achieved if its a free ‘service’ VS a full product.

      • xeridea
      • 5 years ago

      When someone buys a Mac, they support future OS development for 20+ years by paying the Apple Tax. The reason the updates can be “free” is that you already paid for it. Apple has so much money they don’t know what to do with it.

      It would be nice to have free upgrades for Windows though. If there was any sort of subscription tied to it though, I would just use Win7 for my foreseeable lifetime.

      The reason people don’t upgrade to Win8 is because it sux, not because it costs. All the under the hood improvements they made were crushed by a completely unusable UI.

        • adisor19
        • 5 years ago

        Sory to say this but the Apple tax ain’t what it used to be. These days, the actual hardware you get and the software integration is unequalled with anything in the Windows world.

        Just the sturdy unibody construction on the laptops and the unequalled trackpad performance more than justify a premium for their laptops. Since 2007 when i first got my MBP 15″, i have YET to find a windows laptop with a trackpad that works as good as the Apple ones. I’ve heard 1001 excuses about driver models and whatnot, yet here we are 10 years later and still nothing.

        I used to be a tinkerer, building my own PC. I used to enjoy that. I think the 90s and the 2000s were great years to be a PC user. These days, I’m more happy with my Mac and the tax that comes with it. What’s there not to love : great hardware and more than decent software with free yearly refreshes.

        I would say OS X came of age somewhere around OS X 10.5 – 10.6. Every since, the updates have been rather fluffy and on the surface only but this is only a testament to how stable OS X has gotten.

        Cheers !

        Adi

          • christos_thski
          • 5 years ago

          I’ve noticed that, too.

          The Apple tax is alive and well on tablets and smartphones, but as far as Apple laptops go, it’s not anything near to what we were used to (strangely, desktop iMacs still seem to suffer from the affliction). I love desktops and Apple’s prices are enough to keep me aboard the windows ecosystem, but if I wanted a laptop Macbooks would certainly be in the running…

            • Ninjitsu
            • 5 years ago

            Apple laptops are eye wateringly expensive, much more than anything else with equivalent internals. As far as externals, yes MacBooks are quite nice.

            And, what’s worse is that they’ve ended up becoming a status symbol, so now other companies overprice things to appear to be in the same league, while not being as polished as MacBooks.

            • VincentHanna
            • 5 years ago

            the apple tax refers to the mandatory 30% profit margin that apple requires on [b<]everything[/b<] they sell in their little walled garden ecosystem, not its cost relative to other manufacturers. yes, some notable Manufacturers (and notably MSFT themselves) have copied this strategy to varying degrees of success on various high-end lines, but you don't have to buy from them any more then you have to buy from apple.

          • cycomiko
          • 5 years ago

          The profit margins of apple show the apple tax is still alive and well. The difference is the consumer doesnt see the vast majority of this taxation. Apple has maintained their margins through absolute control of their supply chain forcing out any and all spare change from it. Ya wonder why Tim Cook was selected to lead.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            just ask their sapphire supplier…

            • adisor19
            • 5 years ago

            Yeah, they promised what they couldn’t deliver and at the end, their CEO and VPs jumped with golden parachutes.

            So what exactly should I ask them ?

            Adi

            • End User
            • 5 years ago

            How not to run a business.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            I think that’s just a misunderstanding of the markets in which they compete. They sell PCs at the high end. They don’t even dabble in what we’d call the low end. Their cheapest computer is an ultrabook sans display (Mac Mini) or a similarly configured all-in-one with an IPS 21.5″ display (low-end iMac). Their cheapest notebook is still $1000. They don’t compete in the market where the largest percentage of PCs are sold – the lower-end notebook space. All those $500-600 HPs and Dells that kill their margins don’t get any competition from Apple, so it keeps their margins high.

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            While that’s true, there is a LOT of supply chain complaints about apple bleeding their suppliers very heavily.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            Mac resellers know what their margins will be and they’ve accepted that.

            • MathMan
            • 5 years ago

            Nobody force those suppliers to be Apple’s customer…

            • MathMan
            • 5 years ago

            The Apple tax has always been how end-users need to pay more for a Mac than for a PC. It’s probably very true that Apple squeezes its suppliers, but calling that an Apple tax doesn’t make any sense if we’re not seeing the result. I couldn’t care less about Apple’s supply chain…

          • sweatshopking
          • 5 years ago

          [quote<] works as good as the Apple ones [/quote<] [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc[/url<] [quote<] What's there not to love : great hardware and more than decent software with free yearly refreshes. [/quote<] and it even comes with 5 year old game compatibility!!

          • the
          • 5 years ago

          The Apple tax unequivocally disappeared when Apple first switched to Intel. The first two generations of Mac Pro’s could be build via white box means cheaper than what Apple was selling their hardware (dual Xeon 5300 series, FB-DIMMs, etc.). It helped spur rapid adoption of the Mac Pro in various professional circles. (It also helped that Apple got a timed exclusive to the first quad-core Xeon before other PC OEMs.)

          However, those days are long gone. Apple has put form over function with the 2013 Mac Pro. The graphics cards are proprietary to fit into the cylindrical case and cost an outrageous amount compared to their consumer counter parts (the Fire Pro D700 is a reduced clock R9 280X for reference). Single socket workstations form Dell, HP and Lenovo come in far cheaper than Apple’s alternative and offer internal upgradability. Want stay current with the latest GPUs? Can’t with the 2013 Mac Pro and you’ll be stuck until Apple updates their line up. (It didn’t help that Apple used a Tahiti chip in the highend after Hawaii started shipping.) The iMac and Mac Mini follow the same trend of style over functionality when they really don’t have to go that far. They’re [i<]desktop[/i<] computers. I will however say that the MacBook Pro's due have a premium but it is somewhat justified considering the chassis, track pad, and one of the best screens in a portable laptop. While I'd prefer a discrete GPU, the Iris Pro graphics is respectable for being integrated. (Apple does offer a model with Iris Pro and discrete graphics which is rather unique.) The iPhone and iPad due carry a premium over other devices. However, it can arguably be justified due Apple's custom SoC and tight platform integration. For the basics in a smart phone and tablets, the entry price is far, far, far lower than what Apple's base price is.

        • End User
        • 5 years ago

        Windows 8.x is a better OS (when using Classic Shell) than Windows 7. The problem with Windows 8.x is Microsoft did not give it anything really shiny to entice the majority of Windows 7 users to upgrade.

        For me the multiple display enhancements were enough to make me switch.

          • adisor19
          • 5 years ago

          Let’s be serious here. The only reason why Windows 8.x failed is due to MS shoving Metro down our throats. That’s it.

          Adi

            • the
            • 5 years ago

            [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKINi-G2rUo<]This is an accurate representation of me using the Metro interface for the first time.[/url<]

            • A_Pickle
            • 5 years ago

            As a Windows 8.x fan, yes, that’s exactly why it failed.

          • the
          • 5 years ago

          The core of the Windows has steadily improved. The problem has always been the APIs and interface built upon it.

          I’d love to have system level NIC bonding instead of crappy driver implementations but it is not worth Windows 8.x to get.

      • HERETIC
      • 5 years ago

      It’s not only developers that pay for iOS.
      $800 for a $200 phone helps a little bit……………

    • Deanjo
    • 5 years ago

    So are they going to refund the Win 8 upgrade users? ;D

    • Relaxin
    • 5 years ago

    Sounds like I’ll have to finish the move to Linux soon. Oh wait, then I won’t be able to play Wintendo anymore. Argh!

      • Chuckaluphagus
      • 5 years ago

      If you’re referring to [url=https://dolphin-emu.org/<]Dolphin[/url<], they do maintain a Linux build as well. It's kept right up to date with the Windows and Mac builds, works just the same.

        • auxy
        • 5 years ago

        No, Relaxin is referring to Windows games. “Wintendo” is a semi-derogatory (sometimes used affectionately, or with facetious affection) term that Linux users employ to characterize Windows (or their personal Windows install) as being only used for/good for gaming.

    • My Johnson
    • 5 years ago

    So. How do I use Linux?

    (I kid, I kid.)

    • Ninjitsu
    • 5 years ago

    Wait, [i<]what[/i<]? First year will be free, [i<]and then you will what, have to subscribe[/i<]?!

      • bthylafh
      • 5 years ago

      My impression is he meant that for the first year of 10’s availability, anyone with a Win7+ license can upgrade for free and this upgraded copy would remain free; after the first year, maybe it’ll be sub-based.

    • anotherengineer
    • 5 years ago

    [url<]http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141202083121/epicrapbattlesofhistory/images/e/e9/Its-a-trap-what-happens-when-advertisers-dont-meet-twitters-spending-quotas.jpg[/url<] Sorry first gut reaction 😉

    • chuckula
    • 5 years ago

    [quote<]"With Windows 10, we think of Windows as a service," he said, adding that the OS "redefines the relationship between us and our customers."[/quote<] LMFTFY: [quote<]"With Windows 10, we think of Windows as a service," he said, adding that the OS "redefines the relationship between us and our [s<]customers[/s<] [u<]property[/u<]."[/quote<]

    • excession
    • 5 years ago

    So I guess sales of the Office 365 subscription stuff must be going pretty well. I would pay £5/$7.5 per month for Windows. I think. Assuming that there was ongoing development and such, and that you got some OneDrive included, etc.

      • Ninjitsu
      • 5 years ago

      No, no I wouldn’t. I rather pay $130 for 10 years of supported use (potentially longer if you keep it offline) than $130 in 1.5 years.

      Please, don’t encourage them. :/

        • khands
        • 5 years ago

        I would pay 13/year…

        • End User
        • 5 years ago

        Cheapo

      • derFunkenstein
      • 5 years ago

      That is way high for what I’d pay monthly. At that point the “Apple tax” that currently gives free OS updates to computers made in 2008 (such as the early ’08 Mac Pro) look not just reasonable, but a bargain.

      7.5×12 = 90×7 = $630 for just an OS.

        • A_Pickle
        • 5 years ago

        Seven [i<]years[/i<]? You pay ~$130 right now for roughly two, three years of OS. I wouldn't pay monthly, but if they asked for $79.99/year and let you continue using without payment as of the latest updates... I don't think it's unreasonable. The monolithic upgrade model is bad, and should be discontinued. I'm perfectly okay with a subscription.

          • derFunkenstein
          • 5 years ago

          Based on Geoff’s update at the end of the post, I don’t think that’s what they’re doing to do.

          The more I read, the more it sounds like they’re just going to sell perpetual “Windows” licenses. I think that’s a great idea, I just want to see how it’ll work in practice.

          And yeah, 7 years. That Mac Pro I referenced came out 7 years ago and it’s supported – for free – in Yosemite.

            • VincentHanna
            • 5 years ago

            The real question is whether they will tie those “perpetual windows licenses” to individual PCs and what havok that will bring.

            MOBO replacements might have just gotten significantly more expensive.

      • adisor19
      • 5 years ago

      The only reason our organization has some Office 365 subscriptions is due to MS only offering Outlook 2015 for mac as part of Office 365. MS is twisting our hands by doing this, but rest assured as soon as Office 2015 for Mac is out, so will our Office 365 subscriptions be.

      Adi

        • sweatshopking
        • 5 years ago

        COOL STORY.

        WHY DON’T YOU USE A GREAT OSX ALTERNATIVE PROGRAM?

          • adisor19
          • 5 years ago

          Some of us really appreciate the conversation view that Outlook has. No other mail client to my knowledge has that.

          Adi

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            THEN YOU SHOULD JUST BUY A PC AND STOP WHINING.

            • adisor19
            • 5 years ago

            The entire place runs on macs and everyone is quite happy with that. Pretty sure it’s gonna stay that way too.

            Adi

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            TOO BAD OSX DOESN’T HAVE A DECENT EMAIL APP. I WONDER WHAT OTHER APPS IT’S MISSING.

            • adisor19
            • 5 years ago

            Mail is very decent actually. It’s just been a bit unsatisfactory with google apps recently and some users are just much more comfortable with Outlook instead.

            Adi

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            IT IS VERY DECENT. THAT’S WHY IM FORCED TO USE A SOFTWARE MODEL I HATE JUST TO GET A MAIL APP THAT DOES WHAT I WANT.
            You sound like a WP user.

            • adisor19
            • 5 years ago

            There is more to Office 365 than just Outlook, you know..

            Adi

            • sweatshopking
            • 5 years ago

            YEAH BUT APPARENTLY IT ALL SUCKS [quote<] MS is twisting our hands by doing this, but rest assured as soon as Office 2015 for Mac is out, so will our Office 365 subscriptions be. [/quote<]

            • sreams
            • 5 years ago

            You might get fewer thumbs downs if you stopped yelling. Just sayin’.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            But you can just buy Office 2011 for the rest.

            • BIF
            • 5 years ago

            There’s still Libre Office. No subscription.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            OS X mail is pretty good (and I use it for Gmail and my ISP’s free IMAP account), but I wouldn’t use it for Exchange for no other reason than in my brain Outlook is the only solution for Exchange that’s trouble-free.

            • adisor19
            • 5 years ago

            Not sure I agree with you on that one. Unless there is some specific features that Mail is missing, then why pay the MS tax ?

            Adi

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            I dunno, but you’re doing it. 😉

            For me (and I’m not an admin, so my opinion doesn’t really count) I just feel safer with it. I could set up exchange on Mail, I guess, but I’m more comfortable with Outlook.

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            The recent versions of Mail work pretty well with Exchange nowadays (a lot better than MS Entourage ever did anyways).

            • Deanjo
            • 5 years ago

            If I had a dime every time I was asked to recover a screwed up pst file……

          • End User
          • 5 years ago

          BECAUSE OFFICE IS THE BUSINESS STANDARD. DON’T YOU KNOW THAT?

          • Ninjitsu
          • 5 years ago

          BECAUSE THERE ISN’T ANY. 😉

        • w76
        • 5 years ago

        [quote<]MS is twisting our hands by doing this[/quote<] Everyone's got different needs. Our company, by contrast, absolutely loves it. The only obstacle is learning all its features for working together. (And, admittedly, treating OneDrive for Enterprise gingerly, given that its hosed a couple systems) But then again, we'd also rather be shot, tarred and feathered and drug behind horses before trying to integrate Mac's in to our business -- or our industry. (As far as I'm aware, none of our industry-specific software vendors even bother with OSX compatibility)

      • EndlessWaves
      • 5 years ago

      That’s at least twice the current pricing if you upgrade every version. For those of us who don’t buy the latest tech it’s more like a fivefold increase.

      I paid £70 for Vista in 2008 and expect to change sometime next year so I reckon I’m paying the equivalent of £10 a year or £1 a month at the moment.

      I’d be willing to pay that as a subscription. My main concerns would be backwards compatibility and advertising, the issues I have with the bigger game distribution platforms like uPlay and Steam.

      Currently they offer no way to install an old version, so if you want to play a mod that was never updated you’re out of luck if you bought their version.

      Provide that, make any advertising on my private computer strictly optional (ideally opt in rather than opt out) and keep the pricing similar to currently and I’ve no objection to windows as a subscription service.

      Actually, given the falling cost of computers and the pricing microsoft is offering their OEMs on “Windows 8.1 with Bing” I’d like to see the prices reduced, or at least include multiple licences for the current OEM price.

        • sweatshopking
        • 5 years ago

        THERE ARE NO MORE VERSIONS. WINDOWS 10 IS THE LAST MAJOR VERSION CHANGE.

          • the
          • 5 years ago

          MS pretty much said the same thing about DirectX 11… then DirectX 12 came along.

            • A_Pickle
            • 5 years ago

            You get DirectX through Windows Update — not through retail channels. Not comparable.

            • f0d
            • 5 years ago

            MS never actually said that
            amd made that up just so people would get more interested in mantle

      • f0d
      • 5 years ago

      lets see….
      windows 7 cost me about $160 i think and that was around 5 years ago?
      that works out to about $2.66 per month

      so i guess i would pay that
      dont want any onedrive as i dont have a use for it

    • derFunkenstein
    • 5 years ago

    He used some other words that bother me. The OS is free for the “supported lifetime of the device”wording really kind of bugs me. What is that, exactly, for people like TR denizens who build their own systems?

      • excession
      • 5 years ago

      Hmmmm. License revocation a thing of the future?

        • derFunkenstein
        • 5 years ago

        That’s what I’m concerned about.

          • tfp
          • 5 years ago

          Activation based on HW parts? Didn’t they do this for XP or something?

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            Yeah, and retail Windows 8.1 installs are the same way. You can call and reactivate it (which I had to do on the wife’s PC when I switched her from an old AMD setup to a Haswell mobo/CPU). I’m concerned at what point they decide it’s a different PC and I have to buy Windows again. Right now they’re very forgiving. Will they stay that way?

            • A_Pickle
            • 5 years ago

            They’re not THAT forgiving. Fortunately, Windows 8+ keys are kept in the BIOS, so fewer users will need to buy a whole new OS because some numbers smudged off of their sticker…

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            For packaged systems, yes. But for me or for you who bought and built our PCs from parts? I think they should spell it out.

            • VincentHanna
            • 5 years ago

            I’m guessing they probably will do just that… –when windows 10 is ready to launch.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            Fingers crossed…

      • bthylafh
      • 5 years ago

      My first guess is it means that you can’t transfer this license to another computer.

        • sweatshopking
        • 5 years ago

        yeah, exactly this. it’ll be basically an OEM license.

          • derFunkenstein
          • 5 years ago

          if that’s all it winds up being, great. I’m sold.

      • smilingcrow
      • 5 years ago

      As it’s free if it is tied to the original PC I won’t complain.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 5 years ago

        The stream cut out for me shortly after he said the words I quoted – have they defined the “original PC” yet? What’s the original PC if I bought parts? The motherboard? The CPU? GPU? Some combination? It’s always been weird and hard to figure out, but reactivation has always been easy. If updates are tied to some sort of “supported life” then what happens when I upgrade my PC? I’ve basically always had the same “PC” over the last 8 or so years…some parts come forward with upgrades, other parts don’t.

          • sweatshopking
          • 5 years ago

          It hasn’t been clarified. I think it’ll be similar to the OEM license, where it’s tied to a specific hardware configuration and you’ll have to call in if you make a major change.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            and how often do I get to do that before it’s out of its extended life? Is there a magic part that blows up my subscription?

            • smilingcrow
            • 5 years ago

            This information for XP and onwards has been available for years. Too early to say what the terms are for Windows 10.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 5 years ago

            It’s too early for us to know, but I don’t think it’s too early for Microsoft to explain.

      • Meadows
      • 5 years ago

      My understanding of that wording is that when you buy a new device (Lumia, Surface, whatever) it will be supported for a set amount of years, say 3.
      After that time, you’re asked to either upgrade or pay a subscription to keep the device for longer. Sounds like planned obsolescence for IT.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 5 years ago

        Oh, yeah, that makes sense for systems you buy from a manufacturer or the Dell of the Week from the Walmart. I’m more concerned about systems I build.

      • _ppi
      • 5 years ago

      Good news for you. This means you can use your current license as long as it does not detect you have done enough substantial changes to your system to be considered “new”.

      Alternatively, I know OEM license OS can be sold with HDD/SDD or mobo, at least in my country.

    • CampinCarl
    • 5 years ago

    You know, if the amount of stuff they push out per year makes it worthwhile, subscription-style pricing might work. But they still need to offer some sort of perpetual license for standalone machines.

    • Duct Tape Dude
    • 5 years ago

    They dropped the “aaS” bomb:
    [quote<]With Windows 10 we think of Windows as a service[/quote<] I really don't want to subscribe to a core operating system. Subscribing for extraneous features like OneDrive/Cortana/Skype credit/etc seems reasonable, but please let me in for a fixed cost. Or free!

      • Goofus Maximus
      • 5 years ago

      I do wonder how they will work that. Will it be update subscriptions like an antivirus, or will they adapt a “free 2 play” model, where you spend a little to buy new features or modules for your OS, the way one buys hats in TF2… 🙂

        • spugm1r3
        • 5 years ago

        This. This is exactly what I see happening moving forward. We’ll get a base product for free/minimal entry fee, that will be treated like the OEM licenses. Everything Microsoft, post the nominal entry, will carry a nominal subscription fee.

        With SaaS emerging as a viable business model, Microsoft is positioning itself as a provider. The Store framework is already in place, now they will just be working on filling the shelves with legitimate software, instead of the crap they foisted on us in Win8.

        My prediction: On the one hand, you’ll likely be able to use the software you “own” on any of your Microsoft devices. The downside, registering your software will no longer be optional.

      • Lans
      • 5 years ago

      Or [u<]AS[/u<] a [u<]S[/u<]ervice bomb! 😉 I don't think it'll happen [b<]but if[/b<] they price it such that it'll be same or less than current full edition price [b<]over useful life[/b<] (which I think is 4 to 5 years) or even close to that than maybe it isn't so bad. Otherwise I'll have to stick to Windows 7 or maybe just game on Linux/Wine and only play whatever works that way. Getting a console isn't looking so bad now...

      • VincentHanna
      • 5 years ago

      way to cherry pick one friggan sentence to make a point.

      Statement in context:
      [quote<] This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost. With Windows 10, the experience will evolve and get even better over time. We’ll deliver new features when they’re ready, not waiting for the next major release. We think of Windows as a Service – in fact, one could reasonably think of Windows in the next couple of years as one of the largest Internet services on the planet. And just like any Internet service, the idea of asking “What version are you on?” will cease to make sense – which is great news for our Windows developers. With universal Windows apps that work across the entire device family, developers can build one app that targets the broadest range of devices – including the PC, tablet, phone, Xbox, the Internet of Things, and more. [/quote<]

        • BIF
        • 5 years ago

        More people should cherrypick, because THAT’S often the best way to figure out the true intent of the guy talking.

        By the way, that goes for anybody who has something to gain from you. Like lawyers, IRS auditors, and politicians. Especially politicians.

          • VincentHanna
          • 5 years ago

          If by “the guy talking” you mean “the guy doing the cherry picking” then I agree. Its an excellent indicator of when somebody comes to the table with the upfront intention of being deceitful.

            • BIF
            • 5 years ago

            Nice cherry picking of my post; I see what you did there. 😉

            But I also see that I should have been more specific. I mean the guy talking in front of cameras and microphones. I don’t automatically trust anybody in this world where subscriptions are the holy grail of business, so yes; cherry picking really is one of the best ways to glean possible future intent.

            Humans, even those with cameras and microphones and a huge warchest, have many ways of letting their true intentions slip into conversation.

            Just so there’s no more confusion and cherry picking, I’ll say this: I’m with Duct Tape Dude on this one, and I suspect that Microsoft is moving toward a sub-only model.

    • ludi
    • 5 years ago

    So Windows 8.2, “Start Menu Edition,” will be a free upgrade? Good to hear!

      • Ninjitsu
      • 5 years ago

      For a year. It’ll be free for a year, then it’ll be a subscription…at least that’s what I’m getting.

        • nanoflower
        • 5 years ago

        I’m getting that it will be free for a year and then they will charge normal prices. Just as with Win8 where they made it available at a great price (as low as $15 for some) for a few months and then went back to normal pricing.

          • ludi
          • 5 years ago

          I’m hoping that’s what it means. I’ve been running Technical Preview in a VM for a couple months and, so far, it’s exactly what Windows 8 should have been in the first place.

          • sweatshopking
          • 5 years ago

          that’s what it is.

          • Ninjitsu
          • 5 years ago

          I hope so, do keep in mind my post was before any of this was clarified and I panicked because I really don’t trust MS anymore.

    • Firestarter
    • 5 years ago

    not sure if excited or horrified

      • Ninjitsu
      • 5 years ago

      Horrified.

        • Firestarter
        • 5 years ago

        yes but I’m running Windows 7 and I’d like DX12 please. It’d be nice if I could do that without paying ~$80 for the priviledge

          • Ninjitsu
          • 5 years ago

          Me too, but I rather pay upfront than pay a subscription fee for a freaking operating system.

          • anotherengineer
          • 5 years ago

          For the first year, then cue the Jaws theme.

          “Meyerson stopped short of mentioning subscription-style pricing, but it sounds like that could be a future possibility for the OS. “

            • DPete27
            • 5 years ago

            Yes, creative wording. “Promotional pricing for the first year” Yeah… I’ve heard that one before (cable/internet).

            • nanoflower
            • 5 years ago

            This isn’t a new thing. Microsoft introduced Win8 at a great low price IFF you bought it within their window. After that it went back to normal pricing. So this is exactly the same sort of offer.

            As to the subscription mention that shouldn’t shock anyone as Msft has mentioned it before but I don’t think they’ve reached a decision on how to make it work so that they get the maximum income with the least pissed off customers. When they do figure that out I’m sure they’ll switch to some sort of yearly subscription since that’s known income for the next X years.

      • nanoflower
      • 5 years ago

      I’m excited about it. At least as excited as I can be about a new OS. This will help insure most of their customers are on the same version of the OS which is a good thing. It helps developers have a larger audience and it helps cut down on the number of easily compromised systems (given that Win7 support is going away except for those on extended support.) It also answers the question about whether people would have to pay to get DirectX 12 which may help game devs move to DX12 faster.

      Edit: Okay.. Win7 extended support does provide for security upgrades. There’s still the issue of Win8/10 having a better security model than Win7 so moving everyone to Win 10 should help lessen the number of compromised systems.

        • smilingcrow
        • 5 years ago

        “it helps cut down on the number of easily compromised systems (given that Win7 support is going away except for those on extended support.)”

        That’s not how extended support works as it still offers free security updates for all.

        • Ninjitsu
        • 5 years ago

        All Windows 7 computers are on extended support till 2020. MS may just be about to shoot itself in the foot again.

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