TSMC begins volume production of 16-nm FinFET chips

During its Q2 earnings call, TSMC president and co-CEO Mark Liu announced that the chipmaker has begun volume shipment of chips based on its 16-nm FinFET manufacturing process. According to a transcript of the call posted by TheStreet, Liu said that the ramping of the 16-nm process will be even more aggressive than that of its 20-nm process. As a result, TSMC expects to gain foundry market share over the remainder of 2015 and well into 2016.

Liu also talked about the foundry's 10-nm and 7-nm processes, saying that the recent product-like validation vehicle milestone was encouraging and that its plans are on-track. He re-iterated that the company plans to make 7-nm validation samples in the second quarter of 2017, just fifteen months after 10-nm validation. 

According to C.C. Wei, also president and co-CEO, the foundry expects 16-nm processor shipments to begin contributing to revenue in the fourth quarter of 2015, since the process will ramp up during much of the third quarter. Wei also said TSMC was able to move relatively quickly from 20-nm to 16-nm manufacturing, saying "Since 16 nanometer shares [a] similar metal backend process with 20 nanometer, our 16 FinFET can benefit a lot from 20-nanometer's learning."  

Ben Funk

Sega nerd and guitar lover

Comments closed
    • Kougar
    • 4 years ago

    So what exactly is the scale difference between volume production and mass production? TSMC stated they have entered volume production, but will begin mass production next quarter.

    • jts888
    • 4 years ago

    I know everyone here is eager to throw money at a new Pascal GPU or whatever, but I invite you all to note that “beginning volume shipments” translates to “has yields maybe in the double digit percentages for smaller dies with less aggressive designs”.

    TSMC never, ever executes their node transitions smoothly, and Q2’16 (i.e., June 30th 11:59:59 P.M. Alaska Time) is a VERY optimistic guess for volume availability of either Pascal or Fury 2.

    • Damage
    • 4 years ago

    What just happened?

      • torquer
      • 4 years ago

      I’d say ask THK to explain it but I like you.

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        Too Late! You name-me and I appear; like that thing from a horror movie.
        Ergh… Apparently fab companies are claiming they hit/equalled/bettered their own milestone on new tech. I believe ’em all, myself. I can’t imagine any reason why they’d fib or exaggerate.
        So: TSMC 16nm finet this year,
        10nm 2016
        7nm 2017
        by that reckoning 1nm by 2020, and in 2022 [or earlier] TSMC will have violated the physical constants of the universe and be at negative 3nm.
        Finally then, AMD might be able to compete. Maybe.

      • ronch
      • 4 years ago

      Bot attack, sir. Must be from Stuxnet or something.

      • chuckula
      • 4 years ago

      He leaves us alone for FIVE MINUTES and look what happens!

        • ronch
        • 4 years ago

        And SSK’s not even here to stir things up just a li’l bit more!

          • Meadows
          • 4 years ago

          Come to think of it, why isn’t he?

            • ronch
            • 4 years ago

            Math exercise:

            Prove that

            THK = SSK

      • NeelyCam
      • 4 years ago

      Did something happen…?

        • BobbinThreadbare
        • 4 years ago

        FinFETs!

          • ronch
          • 4 years ago

          That’s [u<]3D transistors [/u<], pal! 'FinFETs' are so lame! /s

    • JMccovery
    • 4 years ago

    Okay… I’m lost. I know the story is about TSMC’s pseudo-16nm process, but some of the comments have me all “wtf”.

    Can someone condense what just happened?

      • TwoEars
      • 4 years ago

      Things did not tape out.

    • Mystiq
    • 4 years ago

    Can we please just treat TopHatKiller like a troll? Because he is. He knows his posts don’t make sense sometimes, knows they’re hard to read, and from reading his comments, he never intends to contribute anything except ire.

    Don’t feed the trolls.

      • Freon
      • 4 years ago

      TR needs to implement the shadow ban.

      • TopHatKiller
      • 4 years ago

      Sir, that would probably be because you have read only a small extract of my posts. I have posted about tech.
      Generally, I prefer posting in a rich-prose format; that is to say I often post in a higher-density prosodic form then it considered normal . I ain’t no troll. Love, No-One-In-Particular.

    • TheJack
    • 4 years ago

    Just dropped in to say something to TopHatKiller.
    I hope you won’t get banned until you start feeling comfortable here and find some friends.

    Edit:
    Your posts are utter crap and I am sure you know it too. But then again, recycled crap is what we eat everyday. So reading your posts under the sun start making sense.

      • Meadows
      • 4 years ago

      Now that’s just rude.

        • ronch
        • 4 years ago

        I actually thought he said it rather nicely.

          • Meadows
          • 4 years ago

          Calling someone’s thoughts “utter crap” is “nice”, now?

            • TheJack
            • 4 years ago

            Well, it was supposed to be dark humor, something he seems to like. And speaking philosophically, EVERY thought is utter crap, lastly, I did mention that crap + sunlight = food so with some inner light his thoughts are quite ok.
            In any case it was not meant as an insult, just the opposite.

            • Meadows
            • 4 years ago

            Crap+sunlight only becomes food if you got something to suck it all up.

            • TheJack
            • 4 years ago

            You are very technical minded, which is to be expected in a tech forum.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 4 years ago

            Don’t forget chlorophyll!

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            I do prefer dry, ironic humour. Although, I like silly sight-gags as well.
            Some of my posts have been ‘crap’. Some though, have been clever, and i think, well-worded funny weird things. A few I’m a little proud of. Others… well, we all make mistakes don’t we?
            I take no offense by your post. Have a nice day, Mr.Jack.

            • ronch
            • 4 years ago

            See, I was mainly talking about his post before the edit.

      • just brew it!
      • 4 years ago

      Well, I’ve got no plans to ban him, but I haven’t read that many of his posts, and I’m certainly not the top of the food chain when it comes to running this site so I don’t have the final say… though I suppose I’m currently the top of the volunteer, *unpaid* food chain! LOL.

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        You should be paid. But I won’t pay you….Shessh.

        But seriously are the Gods Who Command really going to put up with me?
        Sure, I’ve broken no rules, but I do seem to have peed off a load of people.
        I feel I’m more harmed against then harming – I mean my first post, which basically said hi! was instantly downvoted – and since then I seem to have fought a constant battle with people here. Not really sure why.
        Still, [i<]I'm[/i<] not even sure if I should be here. It doesn't seem to be doing my mental health any good. But I followed TR for many years, it's one of my favourite sites..... and I don't like the idea of laying down against insults... Apparently I'm stupid, idiot, arse, wanker etc.. god, i dunno know.

    • TopHatKiller
    • 4 years ago

    Attention! to: Meadows, Torquer, Nevermind and to whoever else:

    I seem to have offended you in the comments.
    I wish to stipulate the following:
    [1] I have not posted previously as any one else. I have not ‘returned’ or any such thing.
    [2] I have no interest in posting comments other then:- because I think it’s interesting, or I think my jokes are funny. If of course, you consider my jokes unfunny, well: I guess that’s either my mistake or your loss. I’m not sure which.
    [3] I am feeling ‘ganged-up on’ and I’m not sure why. I am perfectly happy to correct any error in my posts when they are pointed out, but I am not happy being multiply insulted for no reason. [Good reason is a different thing.]
    This is the internet, so I suppose I should ‘man up’ but I didn’t expect this kind of behaviour at TR.
    [4] If it is the consensus of the members of TR that I should leave : because my presence is so offensive to you, then I suggest you talk to the moderators of this site for their action.
    Not try and bully me off, with your inaccurate comments and insults. Like a bunch of horrid muscular goons in a dark corridor.Because that’s sad and embarrassing.

      • torquer
      • 4 years ago

      Damn son, someone touch a nerve?

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        I’m not anyone else.
        You didn’t like my jokes. Here’s one:

        A Horse, Sheep and a Human walk into a bar.
        Horse: “neee-nee” Bartender: “The usual, then?” Horse: “nee!!”
        Sheep: ” Bleet Bleet” Bartender: “The usual?” Sheep: “Bleet!”
        A Vodka Straight and a Gin with Lemon Twist are produced.
        The human, looking sideways at the animals but talks to the bartender anyway:
        “A pint of your best, good sir!”
        Bartender: “What the f-? Get the hella outta here you dirty foreigner with your fancy language nonsense!”

        Yep, I’m a little hurt. Sorry if that wasn’t funny either.

          • torquer
          • 4 years ago

          [url<]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People[/url<]

          • ronch
          • 4 years ago

          I get it. You’re the human, we’re the horses and sheep, and the admins of this site would eventually be the bartender if they ban you.

          WTH.

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            Nope. That really was just a joke. Sometimes a cigar… is just, a cigar.

            Edit: I just thought….How Ronch sees my silly joke… He appears to think that he should interpret it… but that’s not right.
            IT, like my posts are just what they are. Either statements about tech or/and jokes. There is no hidden meaning or intention..

            • ronch
            • 4 years ago

            Er, aren’t jokes supposed to be funny? I bet no one here ever understood your ‘jokes’ as… jokes.

      • ronch
      • 4 years ago

      You know dude, I know your words are perfectly ‘normal’ to you because well, that’s you, but you come out as a bit of a jerk or weirdo around here. I’ve been noticing your attitude, and it’s akin to past members who were so obnoxious or war freak-y that they eventually had to be kicked out. So really, it’s not us, it’s you.

      Peace, dude.

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        Dear Sir, As far as I understand it is in fact, not you, who decides who will be kicked out.
        I delight in the term ‘werido’; that at least is a contrast to monochrome boring nonsense.
        I also, doubt, that you have read sufficient numbers of my posts to arrive at an accurate understanding of ‘TopHatKiller’. But as for your comment “it’s not us, it’s you” – well, that’s true. The clique running here doesn’t seems to like anyone pushing in: unless of course they subjugate themselves and genuflect to the present wisdom. Not me, mate. Don’t hold your breath for me to tip my hat, tuck my forelock or anything else at the ruling kings here.
        I’ll say what I want, in the way I want, until TR bans me.
        [PS I don’t think they will – I’ve broken no rules…..]

        Edit: Also, I should say ‘peace’ back atchyer.

          • ronch
          • 4 years ago

          “it is in fact, not you, who decides who will be kicked out.”

          When oh when did I EVEERRRRRRR say that I decide who gets kicked out? It’s Scott, dude. He da man.

          “I also, doubt, that you have read sufficient numbers of my posts to arrive at an accurate understanding of ‘TopHatKiller’..”

          Oh, believe me, just a small sample would be more than enough.

          Bottomline, you’re not acting like a normal, civilized citizen. Seems to me you’ve got a few loose screws. Your words really give you away. If you need help, just post in the forums. We’ll be glad to help but you need to be nicer.

      • chuckula
      • 4 years ago

      [quote<]Attention! to: Meadows, Torquer, Nevermind and to whoever else:[/quote<] Grammar fail, let's fix this line: [quote<]Attention! to: Meadows, Torquer, Nevermind and to who[b<][i<]m[/i<][/b<]ever else:[/quote<] Since the strange mental state you occupy leads to you believe that you are smarter and better than everyone else here, I expect perfect grammar in all megalomaniacal posts. I bid you GOOD DAY.

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        The correction is noted. Except:”whomsoever” is better.
        Still in this instance, you are quite right.
        Nothing else though, is right at all.

      • ronch
      • 4 years ago

      Attenton! to: TopHatKiller

      Get help!

      • Ninjitsu
      • 4 years ago

      I hate to get into this, but this is my understanding:

      1) When you started posting here, you complained of being kicked out/banned from another tech site as far as I remember. Your initial comments had something mean to say about someone (like a company, people in general, etc.) or the other, and generally didn’t make sense.

      2) Eventually you stopped with suggesting that someone was an idiot or moron in your posts, but your posts didn’t make a ton of sense and were difficult to read. IF you’re a non-native english speaker, I suppose that’s okay, few will bother correcting grammatical errors or spelling mistakes out of snark (I really don’t care unless I can’t auto-correct and understand you), but it’s just hard to read what you’re saying and it doesn’t end up making much sense.

      3) Your jokes…aren’t funny, mainly because they’re difficult to follow, or flat out don’t make sense. Again, it’s possible that you’re not translating it from your own language correctly, which I suppose is fine, but unless we know that’s happening, it comes across as a tad spammy.

      4) You keep making fun of other people’s usernames, despite strongly objecting to the use of something as simple (and practical) as THK. It’s like sweatshopking getting annoyed because half of us call him SSK, except hypocritical in your case because you do something similar to everyone else.

      I hope that helps. No one minds new people – I was certainly welcomed – and even though I’ve had some down-thumbs or arguments and some people trying to be smartas$es, it’s a mostly friendly community, and no one *likes* giving anyone else grief, and most of us won’t stand for it.

      A lot of folks have been posting on TR for [i<]years[/i<] - heck, I've been here for over a year now (and reading for longer). So figure out if you can..."improve"...your posts somewhat, and make them more coherent and less confrontational. Cheers. EDITS: For grammar/typos.

        • Meadows
        • 4 years ago

        Actually, his thoughts are perfectly legible. Written in a funny, non-sequitur way, sure, but legible nonetheless.

        His posts literally read as if he said those lines out loud and had a computer type what it picked up, complete with all the vocal asides and secondary thoughts in parentheses.

          • TopHatKiller
          • 4 years ago

          Actually, thanks for that. My intention in writing a post was to attempt ‘a spoken dialogue’.
          I felt that to be a more amusing and affecting way to write, in this context. I’m sorry that seems to have backfired on me, though.

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        To reply,:

        [1] When I joined I did not complain about being ‘kicked-out’ from other sites. I basically said ‘hi’ and was downvoted intermediately at TR. That treatment just continued.
        [2] My posts were/are meant to be statements suited to to this format. I have attempted to make them interesting, funny… and covey a metacontext .
        [3] You don’t like my jokes? Okay, sorry.
        [5] .. no wait, can’t count [4] I did not make fun of people’s nom der plumes. Well, all right I did. But I meant if affectionately. Sorry if you didn’t like it. However, I was not hypocritical – I resented people abbreviating ‘TopHatKiller’ to ‘THK’ – I didn’t do that to anyone else.

        Also, Thanks for trying to say something constructive and nice! Most of your statements aren’t accurate at all, but it seems your intention was helpful. So, again, Thanks!

      • Nevermind
      • 4 years ago

      Question: Pretty sure you’re nuts? Hey, it’s cool. Lots of famous people were nuts.

      There’s time. Don’t shoot anybody, we’ll make you a chess wizard or some shiz.

      • f0d
      • 4 years ago

      i dont think anyone wants to actually get rid of you

      that said the format of your posts and your wording are a little bit eccentric and calling people by some weirdo name that at best would be considered partially related to their actual name doesnt help people to like you

      you also seem very paranoid

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        Sir. I am not Paranoid What group of conspiracy INTERNATIONAL THINK TANKS HAVE MADE YOU SAY THAT TO ME? Who are you really working for? And get those cameras off my… spying all the time.

        The above is a joke.

        Also, my sometime-habit of addressing people by ‘weirdo’ partially-related names is also an attempt at humour. At least you noted there was a relationship between the non-de-plumes and my daft addressing strategy.

        If people didn’t get that joke and they were upset. Then I’m sorry. Again: Joke.

      • YukaKun
      • 4 years ago

      “Not try and bully me off, with your inaccurate comments and insults.”

      Isn’t that stalking or something of the like? That is very serious and should prompt action from mods IMO.

      If someone doesn’t like a comment, you either put arguments against arguments or you don’t say anything. Insulting and getting on a personal level is never the answer and it is something mods should be very wary of.

      Cheers!

      • Firestarter
      • 4 years ago

      [quote<]I am feeling 'ganged-up on' and I'm not sure why ... Excuse me, What's an iPhone?[/quote<] either you LITERALLY came down from mars just yesterday, or you're the saddest kind of internet troll. I don't like trolls and I bet most here don't either, so I guess that's why you're feeling ganged up on

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        I was joking. About the iphone. My comment was so silly I just thought everybody would get that it was a joke…

      • just brew it!
      • 4 years ago

      C’mon guys… cut him a little slack. It’s not like he’s SSK (and hey, SSK is still here, though he’s come within a hair’s breadth of getting banned).

      THK: Please don’t take that as a challenge. The Caps Lock key is NOT your friend. 😉

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        Dear Just Brew It!, Sorry, but I ain’t got no choice.
        CAPS LOCK!!! he’ my only friend My DEPRESSED HEAD rests its weary load across my keyboard, resting against the evil permutations of abuse I’ve suffered, and as my poor head lays across my keyboard [in the only safety that I have ever ever felt] my tongue stroke’s out a lick to caress that same CAPSLOCK. key.

        Ugh.god…

          • ColeLT1
          • 4 years ago

          ^ This is exactly what you need to stop doing.

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            No sir, it isn’t. Crafted / oblique / poetical / avant garde / dumb-funny posts are exactly what should be ordered. Good [the above] would be a lot better, though. Plus of course, normal posts about tech. [Which I have done a fair bit of, too.]

        • torquer
        • 4 years ago

        We’ve traveled off the edge of the map. Here be monsters!

        Seriously though, what THK has experienced here is super tame. If you’re going to wade into the shark infested waters of internet forums and comment threads, you better come with a thick skin. If someone is breaking rules where THK is concerned, by all means you should call em out. But, I don’t think its reasonable to request that people “play nice” with folks who are pretty clearly trying to annoy everyone. Thats the kind of attitude that gives kids “Participant” ribbons and has created the whole entitled millennial generation. Your heart is in the right place, but the world does not suffer fools lightly and we do no one any favors by shielding them from that reality.

        The world is a scary difficult place. Lets not coddle folks and set them up for failure later on. The next website/forum won’t be nearly as friendly.

      • albundy
      • 4 years ago

      “[3] I am feeling ‘ganged-up on’ and I’m not sure why.”

      the centripetal force of awkwardness colliding with awesomeness thus creating the misunderstood! either that or it’s Obama’s fault.

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        I say yes to you… keep up the good work, there.

    • Ninjitsu
    • 4 years ago

    Well, this is a surprise! TSMC proved me wrong and have delivered. Which is wonderful, because GPUZZZZZ YEAHHH!

    Side note: it’s interesting that while they keep talking of “validation” for 10nm and 7nm, they don’t state when they actually expect those to ramp and make it to market.

    And if 10-nm validation happens just before 16nm’s ramp…then will 7nm validation happen just before 10nm’s ramp? Which puts 10nm for 2017, same as Intel. Can they do it? *grabs popcorn*.

      • ronch
      • 4 years ago

      Don’t count your chicks before they hatch.

        • Ninjitsu
        • 4 years ago

        BUT CAN I EAT THE EGGS?

          • ronch
          • 4 years ago

          If they came before the chicken, yes

            • Ninjitsu
            • 4 years ago

            Oh dear. 😀

      • HisDivineOrder
      • 4 years ago

      [quote<]Can they do it?[/quote<] SPOILER No. /end spoiler

    • Tristan
    • 4 years ago

    Great news. NV taped-out Pascal, and TSMC 16nm yield is quite high, so no need to wait several quarters to mature.
    TSMC/GF/Samsung may leave Intel behind in Moore Law race.

      • PrincipalSkinner
      • 4 years ago

      I wouldn’t want to wait in the sewer for 14nm yields to mature either.

      • Klimax
      • 4 years ago

      Considering what “16nm” is they are in no danger of overtaking Intel…

    • just brew it!
    • 4 years ago

    Maybe AMD should look into using TSMC as their manufacturing partner for the Zen chips.

      • blastdoor
      • 4 years ago

      Samsung is already shipping 14nm chips, so I’d think Samsung is at least as good a partner as TSMC.

      Zen is really shaping up to be AMD’s best hope to survive. *IF* it’s a decent design, they could be at approximate parity with Intel on process for at least a year, maybe longer. *IF* Zen could deliver performance/watt that’s a touch better than Haswell, and *IF* the price/performance is better than Skylake, then AMD could be back in business.

      Huge, huge “ifs” though.

        • ronch
        • 4 years ago

        And *IF* Intel plays nice and doesn’t decide to squeeze AMD down the price ladder or price low to force AMD to price low too.

          • VincentHanna
          • 4 years ago

          “playing nice” is code for continuing to gouge your customers for features that should have been mainstream a decade ago like VT-d, 3.0ghz, hyper-threading, additional cashe, etc, etc…

          You are right to say that Intel is allowing AMD to look [s<]like they might possibly have a chance at being [/s<] competitive with them, but you are wrong to suggest that this is a good thing, for AMD or anybody else.

          • Kretschmer
          • 4 years ago

          To be honest, I don’t see AMD shifting Intel’s prices one way or the other. x86 Zen is highly unlikely to be competitive at the high end. Even when AMD had the best chips, they couldn’t deliver enough volume to capitalize on the lead. Intel competes with Intel.

    • anotherengineer
    • 4 years ago

    I wonder if GF will gain market share when it gets it’s 14/16 nm finfet process going?

    Wouldn’t it be funny if they starting making good profit. AMD would be like doh.

      • Geonerd
      • 4 years ago

      Lets not place GloFlo safely across the Bridge of Death until we actually see them standing on the other side… 😉

      • BaronMatrix
      • 4 years ago

      Well, they now have ALL of IBM’s tech, engineers and fabs… They created a 7nm chip and 14nm has been ramping for months now… It’ll just depend as usual on whether OEM make the machines… At one point AMD had 80% of US retail… Because the machines were there…

      Carrizo should be more than enough to compete with UltraBooks… They say they finished taping out the first 14nm products… They have to do a GPU to get ready for APUs so they should be the expected Zen and new GCN…

      Hopefully it’ll be so fast all the Brood people will have to eat crow…

        • anotherengineer
        • 4 years ago

        [url<]http://images.rapgenius.com/9xqb4j0hcg0n3bq7s3vnpcj3f.360x253x1.jpg[/url<]

          • JumpingJack
          • 4 years ago

          This made me laugh.. thank you.

      • UnfriendlyFire
      • 4 years ago

      “AMD would be like doh.”

      GF: “Hey AMD… We decided to make the 14/16 nm only for smartphones and tablets, again. You think you can still build a desktop GPU out of that? Oh, and we ran into quality issues so it’ll be late by a few months”

      AMD: “Why do I trust you?”

    • TopHatKiller
    • 4 years ago

    “the ramping of the 16-nm process will be even more aggressive than that of its 20-nm process.”

    Is it me? Or is that just funny. What ramping [almost said raping] what 20nm chips? Where the hell are they? Who gives a……..Oooo- that quote is also horrible grammar, not as bad a screwing an entire node – but hey, bad grammar was bad grammatical…stuffing.

      • willmore
      • 4 years ago

      Every single iPhone 6 and 6 plus? Tens of millions of phones?

        • nanoflower
        • 4 years ago

        True, but there is a difference between the low power process and what is needed for discrete GPUs.

          • willmore
          • 4 years ago

          Where were GPUs mentioned in TopHatKiller’s comment?

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            Quantum-Uncertainty-in-Beauty was quite correct. I meant proper chips, not rubbishy socs in those dreadful handheld telephone devices. Back in my day you had to stay home to receive a phone call. [Sigh] Those were the days.
            PS. Thanks for calling me by my full name!
            You people do realize typing burns calories, don’t you?

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        Excuse me, What’s an iPhone?

          • Meadows
          • 4 years ago

          Careful, your trolling’s becoming too obvious.

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            Trolling? Sorry, not following. I [i<]may[/i<] have been joking. Seems I should stop doing that.

            • Nevermind
            • 4 years ago

            Jokes are funny, so no, I don’t think that’s what you were doing.

            • NeelyCam
            • 4 years ago

            Yeah; THK’s jokes are a little confusing. At least I have trouble getting them

            • ronch
            • 4 years ago

            Me too. They’re as dry as a rock in the desert.

            • chuckula
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<]I may have been joking.[/quote<] Well, the term "may" leaves open the possibility that you weren't joking. So I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't joking since thinking otherwise would be a bit insulting.

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            Ohh! Just read that! What the hell would I be doing if I wasn’t joking?
            ‘I’ve never heard of an iPhone?’
            Seriously, what are you strange people talking about?
            If the real insult was that may joke wasn’t funny… okay?

            • HisDivineOrder
            • 4 years ago

            Don’t YOU know if you were joking? How are we supposed to know if you don’t?

            • ronch
            • 4 years ago

            I guess his jokes are so spontaneous he doesn’t have enough time to realize if he’s already joking or not. Guess we’ll just have to take his word for it.

            Or not.

      • f0d
      • 4 years ago

      nvidia’s tegra?

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        I’m unsure about that. Then again, I’m unsure about myself. so there you go…

          • ronch
          • 4 years ago

          So you admit that you’re unsure of yourself. You need help, man. Seriously. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. Just slow down a bit, breath in and out, have a cup of tea, and call a friend. A good, true friend, that is.

          Edit – Just curious, dude. Are you French?

    • PrincipalSkinner
    • 4 years ago

    I must say I did not expect this. How long until 16nm GPUs come out?

      • mesyn191
      • 4 years ago

      March-June 2016 has been the expected date for a while for Nvidia and AMD.

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        Honest! Do yer promise? Is that like an Nv promise? Or an Intel one? Or nooo- not an AMD one?
        In secret conspiratorial meeting between all the major companies : this came out:
        [it’s secret – so don’t tell anyone]
        “F*** calenders, only stinking ****** astronomers use ’em anyway, dirty poncy ***** peeing around on Pluto. If we just get Apple-istic on board we, us together, can re-write that Gregorian calender drivel for our own benefit! No more deadlines!

          • Visigoth
          • 4 years ago

          Lay off the beer, it’s obvious you can’t handle it.

            • just brew it!
            • 4 years ago

            Nahh, if that was a genuine example of PUI it would’ve been riddled with typos and grammatical errors. I think he’s just naturally nuts, without the need for additional chemical assistance.

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            “I think he’s just naturally nuts, without the need for additional chemical assistance.”

            Thankyou! I thought you sounded nice.
            There does appear to be a lack in the sense-of-humor department around here , sometimes.
            Ah well.

            • Meadows
            • 4 years ago

            I have a pretty well developed sense of humour, although I do admit I’m a hard man to wring an actual laugh out of.

            All that notwithstanding, your humour is underdeveloped. You seem to either make inflammatory claims or stage ignorance, and believe that sticking a “just kidding” at the end of it somehow transforms the whole thing into a first-class punchline. Like in that thread here with the iPhones.

            • just brew it!
            • 4 years ago

            Perhaps it is YOUR humor detector that needs calibration. 😉

            • ronch
            • 4 years ago

            Ever considered writing a joke book?

            • grazapin
            • 4 years ago

            I’ve been enjoying TR’s articles for a while, but I just had to register for this since I’m also a bit of a comedy nerd.

            That whole “you guys just don’t have a sense of humor” thing is a refuge for hack comedians. Maybe you can learn from the fact that nobody here seems to be laughing at your jokes. If you continue posting jokes that only you see the humor in, and continue getting offended when nobody laughs, what are the rest of us supposed to think?

            A good comedian knows that in any given performance his/her jokes are only as funny as the audience thinks they are. If you keep posting jokes that nobody besides you sees the humor in then we’ll have to assume you’re a troll or crazy.

            Also, snark != joke

            • TheJack
            • 4 years ago

            It is called the newcomer problem. They start off by saying something some peole don’t like and an endless chain of offending begins.

            • ronch
            • 4 years ago

            It doesn’t happen often. Come in, just act like a normal human being. The TR community doesn’t take pleasure bullying newcomers. Sure, some of us can be pretty mean at times but in any given setting that’s to be expected. Just play along nicely and you’ll find some friends. No need to try hard to look cool, witty, or funny.

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            Regrettably, as is common, you’re assuming facts without evidence.
            Who isn’t laughing at my jokes? Who is? Who couldn’t care either way?
            Without a poll, we’ll never know.
            My offence was against personnel insults and comments, not the unfortunate fact that [i<]some[/i<] people didn't like / get my jokes. I replied, in one instance, that a member didn't seem to have a sophisticated sense of humour. Not generally, at all. Still, I should make my jokes better... Have a cold one on me!

            • grazapin
            • 4 years ago

            Now you’re assuming that some people liked your jokes, with no evidence.

            How about we do something like an informal poll by looking through this thread and seeing how many have said your jokes are funny and how many have said your jokes aren’t funny.

            I’ll start by counting me right now saying your jokes aren’t funny. So, 1 for “not funny”. I’m just going to stop counting there because I’d like this to end in a tie since you will only find yourself in this thread saying your jokes are funny.

            And as an FYI, insinuating that I am less intelligent than you (with my oh so common assumptions without evidence) is not a great way to make friends.

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            Sorry I’ve upset you… I did not insinuate you were unintelligent.
            If I was here to ‘make friends’, I guess my posts would be rather different.

            In the ‘real world’ I have no friends, not in my childhood, not now. I suffer from a social anxiety disorder that makes it very difficult for me to interpret and understand emotional responses in social contexts.

          • ronch
          • 4 years ago

          Banhammer in 3… 2… 1….

            • torquer
            • 4 years ago

            Yeah seriously. THK isn’t even funny accidentally. We sure this isn’t one of our old friends reappearing under a new pseudonym?

            • Meadows
            • 4 years ago

            I don’t think we’ve ever had one of his typing skills before. Bloke can’t even tell the difference between (square-) brackets and parentheses.

            • ronch
            • 4 years ago

            abw comes to mind but no, the signatures aren’t the same according to VirusTotal….

            Edit – Ah yes.. He reminds me of the Joker in Batman – Under the Red Hood. Sick, dry, trying-to-be-witty lines that just sound meh. If you’re a Batman fan, I’m sure you’ve seen it. If not, you should see it. It’s quite good.

          • chuckula
          • 4 years ago

          Hey THK, if you claim to be British then you better stand up when QUEEN takes the stage: [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oSz8Xip_ho[/url<]

          • ronch
          • 4 years ago

          Ah hahahaha!!!! I almost cracked a rib there!!!!

          Edit – Oopsie… wrong post. My bad.

          • Prestige Worldwide
          • 4 years ago

          Put the crack pipe down and go get some rest.

      • tsk
      • 4 years ago

      Pascal has been taped out on 16nm, so I’d expect Q2 2016 for the first GPU(GP100).

        • TopHatKiller
        • 4 years ago

        You believe that? That’s nice.

          • Meadows
          • 4 years ago

          You’re cute, going around thinking that disbelief makes you look smarter. A bit similar to another forum member whose name starts with “K”, of whom we shall not speak.

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            I really doubt anyone around here thinks I’m smart. No reliable site has posted tape-out info as far as I’m aware.

            • Meadows
            • 4 years ago

            At least we can all agree on your first sentence.

            • NeelyCam
            • 4 years ago

            What sites do you consider to be reliable sources of tape-out info?

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            Perfectly good point. The first info on this was at Wccftech – so an awful site. If someone else has a link from a reliable and decent site, then fair enough. I note no one has posted any such thing. Perhaps you no different?

            • NeelyCam
            • 4 years ago

            You didn’t answer my question.

            • TopHatKiller
            • 4 years ago

            Sorry. PcPer, HardwareCanucks, [this one], AnAnd, HardOCP, Bit-tech[?], RWT, Chips+Bits, S/A,
            Hexus, Lost Circuits, maybe: Fudzilla, KitGuru. That list is probably not exhaustive. But about right.

            • Arbiter Odie
            • 4 years ago

            Not sure I agree about S/A. Also, overclockers.com is great for taking chips as far as they go. And somehow they got a 5775C to test!

            Also, beyond3d. Nuff said.

            • ronch
            • 4 years ago

            Just act normally. See, you already got a +1! 😀

            • f0d
            • 4 years ago

            i agree with just about all except s/a is semi semi partially maybe kind of accurate

            • Chrispy_
            • 4 years ago

            I like S/A.

            As long as you assume it’s part-rumour and part Charlie frothing at the mouth, it’s exactly what I’m looking for sometimes.

    • guardianl
    • 4 years ago

    Reading that transcript… I had a laugh, those analysts must have been gritting their teeth. I’ve never seen a Q&A for a major tech company that is so useless. It’s one thing to evade a question, but half the time Dr. Chang just gives an answer to something completely different. Plus the snark on top of it, he’s 100% don’t give a crap.

    Morris Chang (Chairman): I don’t know about the $8b. If you think it’s $8b maybe it’s $8b. I can’t verify that. But I can say that 28 nanometer will continue to be strong for several years.

    Roland Shu (Analyst – Citigroup): Okay, thank you. If I can — maybe I can ask another question. For 20 nanometer and 16 nanometer, I think TSMC already said this will be the same technology node and also we are expecting much bigger market share for 16-nanometer next year. So will the combined 20-nanometer and 16-nanometer revenue to reach bigger than 28-nanometer last year?

    Morris Chang (Chairman): What is the question?

    Morris Chang (Chairman): Again I don’t know the answer to that. What I can say is that 16 next year will be much bigger than 20 this year. And as a percent of total corporate revenue, 16 next year will be higher than 20 this year. And next time Roland will probably come in and tell me how many billion dollars we are billing.

      • chuckula
      • 4 years ago

      Dave Chappelle could have done that Q&A: [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUfiqhDY_8s[/url<]

      • nanoflower
      • 4 years ago

      You missed the part about having great confidence in 20NM and how well it was doing right before pointing out that they are already converting much of the 20NM production lines over to 16NM. We already knew there were issues with 20NM given AMD dropped plans to use 20NM and is moving to 16NM.

      • ronch
      • 4 years ago

      Conclusion: running a foundry business that’s been going through tough times for a while now can drive you a little crazy.

    • chuckula
    • 4 years ago

    [quote<]"Since 16 nanometer shares [a] similar metal backend process with 20 nanometer, our 16 FinFET can benefit a lot from 20-nanometer's learning." [/quote<] That's corporate speak for: Our 16nm process is our 20nm process BUT FINFETS.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 4 years ago

      I didn’t want to editorialize in the post but that’s how I read it, too.

      • JumpingJack
      • 4 years ago

      Exactly. In my head I am trying to envision how you register a metal backend which is pitched to a 20 nm node to a transistor layout that is pitched for a 16 nm node without wasting transistors.

        • Atradeimos
        • 4 years ago

        [quote<]register a metal backend which is pitched to a 20 nm node to a transistor layout that is pitched for a 16 nm node[/quote<] He said "similar" metal backend, not "identical," so I'm willing to cut them some slack on that one.

      • Pholostan
      • 4 years ago

      I hope that doesn’t mean that the new process is rubbish for high performance chips (like big, power hungry GPUs).

        • chuckula
        • 4 years ago

        It’s actually good news for the big chips since FinFets are what make high-performance transistors at these sizes even possible. It’s not the per-transistor performance that’s at issue, it’s the nomenclature of throwing out terms like “16nm” when the density will be pretty much the same as 20nm (of course, 20nm is still better than the existing 28nm that GPUs are still stuck on now).

          • Pholostan
          • 4 years ago

          Well, that is my hope that they make a proper high performance node for our lovely big GPUs etc. Not sure that TSMC FinFET will be the most suitable though. Much catering to the low power mobile market. Samsung has that 14nm LPP that looks promising, but that is also in essence a low power node. Still probably way better than 20 nm plan, so cautiously optimistic maybe?

          Heck, even Intel’s tri-gate looks much more geared toward low power than performance. Still the best there seems to be until somebody makes a large, high performance chip on a Samsung or TSMC FinFET process.

      • Stonebender
      • 4 years ago

      Makes you wonder what the actual size of their 10nm process is going to be.

    • UnfriendlyFire
    • 4 years ago

    I wonder how would 16nm GPUs perform compared to 28nm if given the same architecture?

      • tsk
      • 4 years ago

      The shrink itself will do little for performance, but now you will have room for more shader processors etc.

        • Nevermind
        • 4 years ago

        It’s all about shrinking die size to save wafer money, they don’t “fill up” empty space with shader cells.

          • UnfriendlyFire
          • 4 years ago

          AMD’s Fury chips are bottlenecked at the front end area after investing so much into HBM.

            • Nevermind
            • 4 years ago

            “Bottleneck” implies something limiting the performance of everything else, substantially lagging behind the volume of the rest of it, so I don’t think that really is a great metaphor to describe the on-card relationship between the GPU and its ram bus. The memory is a lot faster than it used to be and that USED to be a bottleneck on AMD cards AFAIK.

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            He is right, though. Fiji is severely bottlenecked by the front-end bits of its GPU core. The massive shader array goes mostly un-utilized because the front-end – essentially the same as Hawaii’s, even though the shader array is twice the size of Tonga’s – can’t keep it fed.

            • Nevermind
            • 4 years ago

            Well that makes me exactly wrong.

            • HisDivineOrder
            • 4 years ago

            Don’t feel bad. AMD got it wrong, too.

            • Nevermind
            • 4 years ago

            Well they spent millions, or at least hundreds.

    • TwoEars
    • 4 years ago

    Woohoo – it’s happening folks. It’s actually happening.

    We’re going to go from 28nm gpu’s to 16nm gpu’s in one big step, it’s going to be glorious.

    Wonder if Samsung and their 14nm process also is up and running.

      • Ushio01
      • 4 years ago

      It has been for awhile the Galaxy 6 has a 14nm SoC.

        • TwoEars
        • 4 years ago

        Nice – I don’t care much for mobile phones, I just use them. Got an older samsung.

      • anotherengineer
      • 4 years ago

      28nm to 14nm, would be like going from 90nm to 45nm if leakage is kept in check that is.

        • just brew it!
        • 4 years ago

        Well, one of the reasons for doing FinFET in the first place is leakage control, so hopefully it’s reasonable.

          • NeelyCam
          • 4 years ago

          I think he’s point may have been that in 90nm->45nm transition, leakage wasn’t really kept in check that well..

            • anotherengineer
            • 4 years ago

            Well for AMD 90 to 45 was good, but AMDs 65nm, was bad for leakage, at least the few I seen in person.

            Fingers crossed for finfets though.

            • ronch
            • 4 years ago

            I kinda noticed that too. While I never had a 90nm AMD chip, I’ve had several (3 or so chips) 65nm Athlon 64 X2 chips (Brisbane) go bad back when we still used them. They just started to heat up so badly that the machines would just shut down. Replacing the HSF didn’t help in all of them and I had to RMA them all. They also went through this at different number of months into ownership. Their HSFs also became very hot. I suspect the conductive properties of the silicon itself changed. Maybe the impedance or resistance became higher and thus more heat resulted. Or leakage too, as you say.

      • green
      • 4 years ago

      [quote<]We're going to go from 28nm gpu's to 16nm gpu's in one big step, it's going to be glorious[/quote<] remember that supply of the new process will be very limited back when smartphones and tablets weren't a thing, ati + nvidia were the main wafer buyers fast forward to today and all these new fangled devices are selling in the 10's to 100's of millions foundaries will be effectively auctioning their wafer starts to the highest bidder so amd and nvidia will have to compete with the likes of apple, qualcomm, etc i'd wager amd + nvidia will shift to 20nm while the others move onto the latest and greatest

        • JustAnEngineer
        • 4 years ago

        The available 20nm process is a low-power process suitable for a smart phone system-on-a-chip but not useful for a high-power GPU.

        • Ninjitsu
        • 4 years ago

        Nvidia will probably be third in the pecking order at TSMC – though I’d bet that their chips are more expensive for both Nvidia and TSMC than anything Apple or Qualcomm want, so the equation may not be straightforward between the three companies and TSMC.

    • ronch
    • 4 years ago

    Nice to see TSMC getting a move on, but I hope these nodes are much more than fancy monikers, and would truly result in smaller, faster, and more efficient chippers.

    • ronch
    • 4 years ago

    Moore’s Law has just been renamed Lazarus’s Law.

    You heard it here first, folks.

      • TopHatKiller
      • 4 years ago

      Sir Farming, One doubts the new node will effect the resurrection of the dead. Oh No! Wait.. you may have a point.

        • Liron
        • 4 years ago

        The resurrected also die again, after a while.

          • JustAnEngineer
          • 4 years ago

          …or they carry on living long enough to become the Face of Boe.

          • ronch
          • 4 years ago

          Apparently, dying once isn’t enough.

      • Nevermind
      • 4 years ago

      “You’ve quite a treasure in that horadric cube..”

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