Microsoft will make Windows 10 a recommended update in 2016

Microsoft really wants users to upgrade their PCs to Windows 10. Really. In a post on the Windows Blog, Windows and Devices head Terry Myerson said that the reservation-system update process for Windows 10 has worked well so far. To get Windows 10 on more PCs, though, Microsoft has streamlined the manual upgrade process, and it'll soon begin pushing out the final version of Win10 to Windows Update.

To start, the reservation method of requesting a Windows 10 upgrade is dead. Myerson says that interested PC owners can instead begin the upgrade straight from the notification app that shows up on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 PCs. He also says Windows 10 will make its way onto Windows Update "soon." The OS will show up as an optional update at first, but it won't stay that way for long. 

Early on in 2016, Microsoft expects to mark Windows 10 as a "Recommended Update." For PC owners who have chosen to stick with the Microsoft-recommended settings for Windows Update, that means the OS will automatically download Windows 10 and try to initiate the upgrade process.

The upgrade won't be entirely automatic, though. Users do have to accept the Windows 10 license before installation can continue. Myerson says users will have the opportunity to back out of the installation for any reason if they want, and he also points out that Microsoft gives users 31 days to roll back to their previous version of Windows if they so choose.

Finally, Windows 10 will only install and activate on "genuine" Windows 7 and 8.1 systems with this new process, so pirates won't be upgraded to a legit copy of Windows for free. Instead, Microsoft will soon test a process where non-genuine users can buy Windows 10 right from the Windows Update application before upgrading. 

Ben Funk

Sega nerd and guitar lover

Comments closed
    • streagle27
    • 4 years ago

    Windows 10 will be a ‘recommended update’? What a load of hor$e$hit.

    If Windows 10 was that great, they wouldn’t have to shove it down everyone’s throat when they’re not looking.

      • streagle27
      • 4 years ago

      Let’s not argue semantics. This is EXACTLY what they are doing.

    • GatoRat
    • 4 years ago

    Windows 10 doesn’t run correctly on my computer. I’ve tried both an upgrade and a fresh install. In all cases, it installs fine, but after the first few boots, it states that the image is corrupted. Yet, if I enter the boot menu, it boots fine. For a few more boots. In one case, it then failed to the point where it wouldn’t boot no matter what.

    This same computer was running Windows 7 just fine and is now running Windows 8.1 just fine.

    My ex-wife’s dell laptop is documented as not working correctly with Windows 10. The weird part is that my oldest daughter’s laptop is a year older and took Windows 10 just fine.

      • TruthSerum
      • 4 years ago

      That’s a new one. I haven’t heard that type of few-boot corruption fail. I wonder.
      Did you format the disk when you did a fresh install? I would try that.

        • GatoRat
        • 4 years ago

        I did format it. I suspect it’s a case of the combination of parts combined with a possible issue with this specific MB bios. I’m using that as an excuse to update my rig next spring.

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          Excuse granted. I wonder though. AHCI mode in BIOS or ?, HD or SSD?

    • TruthSerum
    • 4 years ago

    Thank you for your patience in determining if, or if not, Windows 10 is a data snarf.

    There is some disagreement.

    But we can discuss things without calling others ‘crazy’ – or discussion is impossible.

    • maxxcool
    • 4 years ago

    *Forced install ? — Good, windows10 needs to be on every single device that is good for the upgrade. and honestly it should be pushed to the hacked copies as well.

    Makes for less attack surfaces. Makes for a better internet without hordes of zombies on winxp and oem copies of un-updated windows-7 that allows anything to be written to the root of c: or the registry.

    *Forced updates ? — Even better. 90% of the consumer space has no idea what patching even really does. ignorance is not a defense to not do it and put everyone else (and themselves) at risk. Even better, there should be a notification system to tell users there java, office and adobe-infect-me apps are out of date and LOCK THEM OUT OF IT until they update.

    Don’t like forced updates and reboots. pay for the professional copy, then you can skip updates, get infected and then your data is in worse hands that some advertiser.

    *go one further — MAKE UAC mandatory on consumer copies.

    Data safety education clearly needs to be painful and obvious.

      • BlackDove
      • 4 years ago

      Windows 10 INCREASES attack surface dramatically. Please look up what “attack surface” means.

      You clearly need to get educated on “data safety”.

        • maxxcool
        • 4 years ago

        Oh please. Name calling already? No wonder your getting piles of negative votes.

        As for the attack surface you need to read the whole statement and not cherry pick like the usual basher. 40 additional services PALES in comparison to the average users 300+ in unpatched vulnerabilities… But since your a expert in security and all /eye roll/

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          “Average user” is a patched user, in this scenario. Up to date with MSupdate’s offerings.

          That’s a baseline. Now, on the average install, by default, WHICH SERVICES ARE ON?
          Is a big deal! It’s a consideration from both useability and security which are opposing.
          M$ doesn’t know if you want to share your C drive by default, C$ – BUT it does so anyway.
          Same for all the network discovery type stuff, all kinds of telemetry added on now.

          If it’s not easily turned off AND explained by M$ in clear step by step ways, nobody in the average user community is ABLE to figure out how to make that stop without 3rd party expertise in locking down / turning off unwanted services, and the consequences are unknown.

          Now that’s getting out of the realm of average user at this point, just to secure themselves from microsoft’s internal decision process that everything should be on, by default, always, and now W10 has taken that paradigm into the realm of tracking and selling to 3rd parties information derived from your usage habits, by default. CAN they all be uninstalled/removed, maybe! SHOULD that information be made available, especially if they’re going to be rolling users into it with/without their consent? ABSOLUTELY it should.

      • brucek2
      • 4 years ago

      Win 10 is not a simple security patch. It is a changed operating system, including new business terms between the publisher and the customer (hence the users must accept the license step.)

      Under your ludicrously imbalanced suggestion, any business could justify unilaterally changing any aspect of its product and business terms as long as they included a single alleged security fix.

      Fortunately this is not the way the world currently works, or most cooler heads think it should work, and hopefully it remains that way.

      I’ll let someone else who wears just a bit more tin foil make the case that in some ways Win10 is itself the attack. It’s an exaggeration but not completely without merit.

    • TheJack
    • 4 years ago

    Differences of opinions aside, this subject is not a matter of opinions. Microsofts entire existance relys solely on the fundaments of the so called intellectual property. What they are doing now is exactly the opposite of respecting others intellectual property. Basically in a sound world, whatever you write or read is your ip. So what they are doing now is flat out piracy. It is understandable that they want a piece of google’s cake, but they have come late to the party and this may well backfire on them.

    • Chrispy_
    • 4 years ago

    [quote<]Microsoft really wants users to upgrade their PC's to Windows 10. Really.[/quote<] ...to the point that their delivery methods are starting to look less like an offer and more like immoral subterfuge. Windows 10 may be their best OS to date but they're not winning any favours by ramming it down everyone's throat. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXju34Uwuys<]Consent is everything[/url<].

      • TruthSerum
      • 4 years ago

      Amen. It’s quality-OS business versus deceptive data mining and marketing business.

    • Theresa N
    • 4 years ago

    This has become a M$ fanboi site. Every critical post get down voted. I’m frankly disappointed that a formerly respectable site like this has become so biased. Windows 10 is the worst OS they’ve ever released. It’s full of spyware and adware and reflects corporate greed at it’s worst.

      • Whispre
      • 4 years ago

      You sound worse than a fanboy in this post, more like an emotional hater who’s going to complain about anyone who has a different opinion than you.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        Personal attack duly noted. Hypocritical at that.

        ” more like an emotional hater who’s going to complain about anyone who has a different opinion than you.”

          • BIF
          • 4 years ago

          Hmmm, that was not really a personal attack. I took it as an observation. “duly noted”? That’s a bit of a bureaucratic response, don’t you think? Not an attack, just an observation. But I won’t be surprise if you “duly note” it. 🙂

      • sweatshopking
      • 4 years ago

      This is patently false. I’ve been basically alone advocating for microsoft products for years. that hasn’t suddenly changed. People don’t love microsoft, they just don’t agree with crazy.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        Calling people who point out flaws “crazy” is the domain of a healthy mind?

      • maxxcool
      • 4 years ago

      wait your complaining about the SITE, but reference the USERS… Users are your issue not the site. And as always, you can choose to read other things on the is site and not be offended by random faceless entities posting inflammatory vote-bait replies.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        She’s saying sometimes, the user-contributed stuff smacks of trolling rather than discussion, when people are trying to make points and others aren’t even reading or addressing or talking about them, just fully 100% running distraction, calling names, making “crazy” insinuations like only crazy people are concerned about privacy and “you must be a commie” etc.

        It gets effing old. That’s all she’s saying, IMO. And it’s not limited to this site, nor is it exactly the fault of the site or the administration at all, because this is a common internet problem.
        Fear, uncertainty, doubt. FUD. People trying to astroturf over potholes, without scruples.

        Whatever their motives, if paid or unpaid, the result is a shut down of the discussion.
        That’s not right and she’s right to lament it.

        Edit: -4 is fine. I accept that you think this isn’t worth saying.

      • confusedpenguin
      • 4 years ago

      I’m not having a problem with Windows 10. Purchased it to dual-boot on my iMac with bootcamp. After the install I went and turned off as many features as I could find that have been so controversial concerning user privacy. The options are there. They are easy to turn off.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        All 30+ of them strewn across 14+ different pages? Maybe you’re not paying close attention?

          • confusedpenguin
          • 4 years ago

          Considering the NSA has contributed code to the Linux Kernel, I don’t think your going to find true privacy using Linux or Android either. OSX? The same. El Captain was a free upgrade. Gotta get government spyware on everyone’s electronic devices somehow. Not that I like or approve of it, but there is no avoiding it. Those privacy distros are a joke.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            I can’t agree with you more – but this is the point of rubber @ road in discussion here.

            MS W10.

          • BIF
          • 4 years ago

          The moderators in the forums and these article comments are very good at identifying real problems. I’ve never felt the need to keep score. 🙂

      • Crackhead Johny
      • 4 years ago

      I do not see MS fanboi as a thing when it comes to OS.
      With OSs you have
      The grey beards of Linux/Unix
      The Cult of Apple
      Everyone else

      Soon the Steam OS folk will grow in number. If all you use your PC for is games and some web surfing why not? We know why Steam OS is free but it is not like we weren’t giving them all our money to begin with. Steam sale coming up!

      Being “Everyone else” doesn’t seem fan like, there may be a mandate for conformity with the herd but not really fandom.

      Now when it comes to consoles, MS fanboi is certainly a thing.

    • TruthSerum
    • 4 years ago

    I didn’t make it up, sorry. Google still works kids.

    [url<]https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/[/url<] [url<]http://www.howtogeek.com/224616/30-ways-windows-10-phones-home/?PageSpeed=noscript[/url<]

      • ClickClick5
      • 4 years ago

      Hope you didn’t use Google for that information. Now they know your IP searched for those links!

        • sweatshopking
        • 4 years ago

        Lolirl

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        Well +1, as mentioned elsewhere, Duckduckgo works without the tracking.

        When I use Google I know exactly what I’m opting into.

        HOWEVER, Google only knows me by IP. I can change that.
        Windows10 assigns a unique user ID that you cannot easily change.
        They can track you on EVERY site. AND MORE.

        And there’s no option for a tracking-free version like duckduckgo in that instance.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          You can go onto googles sites and see the profile theyve got of you. Google analytics tracks all kinds of stuff. It isn’t just google.com

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Nope. Blocked. Both javascript and the actual IP in the host file. Next?

            Adblock does a lot also.

    • lilbuddhaman
    • 4 years ago

    I’m genuinely interested in knowing who is mass downvoting every single comment that is critical of Win10, while providing no counter comment addressing the perfectly legitimate concerns (namely privacy and shady update behavior).

      • TruthSerum
      • 4 years ago

      This site is being affected by the typical multiple-account troll problem all forum sites face now.

      Time to check IP logs and see how many acounts come from the same place, TR.

        • sweatshopking
        • 4 years ago

        No it isn’t.

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          You seem awfully confident in that assessment.

        • Whispre
        • 4 years ago

        [quote<]This site is being affected by the typical multiple-account troll problem all forum sites face now. [/quote<] OR.... people just don't agree with your posts.

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          All of them, instantly, with SSK just happening to reply instantly also? What a coincidence.

            • DoomGuy64
            • 4 years ago

            SSK has a cult following. You’re reading too much into it.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            I don’t dislike him, I dislike this aspect of his contribution to the site.

            Trying to use “tinfoil and crazy” perjoratives to deny reality via FUD is not acceptable to me.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            I have never said you’re tinfoil. M$ is clear about telemetry in windows 10. I just don’t care or see a difference between them and their competitors.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            You said “nuts” in the place of “tinfoil” – same intent, same meaning.

            No, it’s not something only paranoid people are concerned about, privacy generally.

            I reject that and I always shall do so.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            “M$ is clear about telemetry in windows 10.” People besides myself disagree with that.

            I think that’s pretty clearly NOT the case.

            • TheJack
            • 4 years ago

            Well, there is a difference and that being that you are much more likely to do your serious work on your PC rather than a mobile device.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Sure. UNLESS YOU HAVE A NEW WINDOWS 10 MOBILE WITH CONTINUUM TM! THE MOST PRODUCTIVE PHONES ON THE MARKET!

            • TheJack
            • 4 years ago

            That was good. Now seriously, asking all the MS advocates: suppose you are working on a project which you absolutely don’t want anyone under any circumstances to know about it. It may be a tech invention, a bestseller book, or similar. How would you feel if you had the faintest suspicion that your documents are being spied on? Please answer this question.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            I have the faintest suspicion everything is. It is on every operating system.

            • Whispre
            • 4 years ago

            I’m guessing you think the guy who delivers your morning paper is “in on it” as well….

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            The guy who delivers my paper doesn’t check which websites I visit as a “service”, no.

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          You didn’t agree with the links to the DATA either, tried to dismiss it.

      • sweatshopking
      • 4 years ago

      I don’t often downvote, even most of truthserums posts.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        And you don’t often mischaracterize what people are saying intentionally, according to you…

        But.

      • LostCat
      • 4 years ago

      I don’t have the energy to reply to these people anymore.

        • DoomGuy64
        • 4 years ago

        I get it, but lilbuddhaman was asking who was downvoting [i<]every[/i<] critical comment, which means the non-spammers. My guess is that some people are not putting forth the effort to distinguish who's saying what. I doubt the majority here completely agrees with Microsoft's business practices, and are actually spamming downvotes because certain individuals are spamming the thread. As far as the "spyware" goes, afaik you can turn it off. If it's off, then there's no problem. If you don't know how to turn it off, well then you don't deserve to turn it off, and MS will get all kinds of interesting data that they can abuse to further dumb down the OS. :p Also, like I mentioned earlier, forcing people to upgrade could cause significant problems down the road. Maybe even class action lawsuits from people who's PC's have been wiped out from a bad upgrade. Microsoft needs to back off on the aggressive upgrade policy, because it obviously isn't for everyone.

          • LostCat
          • 4 years ago

          I agree that it tracks people (like every other OS.) I don’t agree that every old article/user saying something negative is still (or even was) accurate.

          I just don’t care enough to argue the points.

            • TheJack
            • 4 years ago

            You apparently do care, otherwise you wouldn’t be reading and posting. I’d say you don’t know what to make of all this. To be honest I don’t think anybody here does. It is just there.

            • LostCat
            • 4 years ago

            I wasn’t arguing, though. The noise level is a bit too high.

            • DoomGuy64
            • 4 years ago

            Windows is closed source. There’s only so much you can accurately know without seeing the code. We shouldn’t be splitting hairs about precise details, when we know there’s this big admitted spyware elephant in the room. Some people have made this out to be worse than using java and flash. I dunno if it is, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t seriously look at the claims either.

            “Android does it too”. Sure. Look how secure android is. The OS is getting a major new vulnerability every month, and since your provider won’t update your phone, you have to throw it out and buy a new one. Unless you rooted your phone, and there’s an updated rom available.

            All I know is that Microsoft should perpetually allow people to disable any ads/spyware embedded in the OS. If too many vulnerabilities get reported like android, I can see businesses and government agencies avoiding w10. It’s not something Microsoft should be defended for. Do we like spam and popups? Do we like trojan horse apps? Do we participate in the creation of these things, or profit from ad revenue? Then why defend it? Some people are taking the paranoia too far, but antagonizing them makes you look like a spyware programmer. Not you of course, but the people egging on the tinfoil hat crowd. Overall, this looks bad all around. Trolls trolling trolls, arguing on the internet, all that junk.

            FWIW, I use both windows and android. I just turn off the features that might be insecure, and run a good AV. If something gets through that, then maybe they deserve it. Hopefully I backed up beforehand, and nothing of value was lost.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Very fair and balanced post. +1

            • DoomGuy64
            • 4 years ago

            Thanks. You’re awesome and entertaining. +1

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            We should kiss.

            • LostCat
            • 4 years ago

            I only +1ed you for having Doom in your name. One time offer.

            • DoomGuy64
            • 4 years ago

            Greatest game ever. Zdoom offers endless replay capabilities.

            • LostCat
            • 4 years ago

            I religiously avoid old games. My Ultima loving friends can tell you all about it.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Un-fayar!

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            “It’s not something Microsoft should be defended for.” – A M E N

      • egon
      • 4 years ago

      Doubtful even these people are all happy with the privacy/update aspects, but most Windows-based tech enthusiasts either want Windows 10’s other features now or know they’ll have to move to it eventually, and many will seek to [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance<]resolve this conflict[/url<] by playing down or dismissing the concerns you mention.

    • TruthSerum
    • 4 years ago

    SSK how many accounts do you need on this site? Stop trolling.

    M$ sells user data to 3rd parties in Windows 10. Fact.

    Can’t handle it? Don’t handle it. Leave us out of your fanboy denial.

      • sweatshopking
      • 4 years ago

      I plused this.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        Not buying it at this point. Nor W10.

    • brothergc
    • 4 years ago

    just wondering , can this “phone home ” to MS be disabled in some way ?
    yes I already know about the standard settings to disable when installing , but whatabout those hidden ones ?

    • ryan345
    • 4 years ago

    Before MS pushed that Windows 10 nag update (KB3035583), I did not worry much about forced updates. But with that update, MS taught me that I really want to be in control. I don’t want to fight with the OS trying to repeatedly defer updates. And I don’t want to be subject to future updates that might decide to nag me about something else, some new product MS wants to sell.

    So ironically their Windows 10 advertising update taught me that I want to be in control, and therefore I don’t want Windows 10.

    • The Egg
    • 4 years ago

    [quote<]Finally, Windows 10 will only install and activate on "genuine" Windows 7 and 8.1 systems with this new process, so pirates won't be upgraded to a legit copy of Windows for free.[/quote<] Sounds like an incentive if I've ever heard one.

    • LoneWolf15
    • 4 years ago

    All this pushing is likely to get me to upgrade my household. From my Windows 7 Enterprise license to Windows 8.1 Enterprise license with Classic Shell added. Neither prompts me to upgrade, since they don’t qualify.

    Not particularly interested in the Edge browser. I don’t find the new Win10 Start menu to be all that great, though it’s better than none like Windows 8.x. I’d like control over my own patching process, which 8.1 Enterprise continues to give me, and admittedly some portions of the operating system are faster than 7. There are minor annoyances, but I’ve been using it for some time at work, and customized, it mostly does the things I need. Windows 10 doesn’t do some of those things yet, and does some things I’m not particularly fond of.

    I’ll eventually be forced to upgrade to Windows 10 at work for client support (right now I run it and Windows 7 in VMs for those purposes), and can deal with it then.

      • nerdrage
      • 4 years ago

      [quote<]All this pushing is likely to get me to upgrade[/quote<] I think you meant to say [b<]UN[/b<]likely... either that or I'm [i<]really[/i<] confused.

        • LoneWolf15
        • 4 years ago

        No, it’s likely to get me to upgrade…just not to the OS they want me to.

    • Ninjitsu
    • 4 years ago

    It’s already an optional update for some people, as I was reading in the forums some time ago.

    • TruthSerum
    • 4 years ago

    People making personal attacks against blackdove and myself for this are way out of line.
    Credible, SSK, now whispre, get with Jebus. The proof is in the pudding.

    W10 does display ads, and it does send A LOT of data to M$ by default.
    And that data is apparently able to be sold to 3rd parties.

    Making blackdove and others who point this out your personal trolling targets, well,
    it says a lot about the mindset of people who advocate selling out without thinking.

      • sweatshopking
      • 4 years ago

      I don’t think i’ve made any personal attacks. you’ve literally ignored, repeatedly, the terms of the windows license. I just said what happened. I have nothing against you personally, and I OWN NO MICROSOFT STOCK AND HAVE NEVER WORKED FOR THEM OR ANY SUBSIDIARIES. I just don’t think it’s any different than anything else, and think you’re blowing this way out of proportion. Does it collect more information? yes. Does ios/android/facebook/google/browsers/etc. yes. The issue i take is with the hypocrisy. Hold ALL of them to the same standard, or none of them. If datamining and telemetry isn’t ok the rail against literally every other major operating system as well. Siri collects information. Google collects information. Cortana collects information (they can’t work without it). Hold them to the same standard and we’re good. I care about how that data is being used. I just don’t get overly upset over one company and not another.

        • ClickClick5
        • 4 years ago

        This is all I was able to translate from you: ” I OWN NO MICROSOFT STOCK AND HAVE NEVER WORKED FOR THEM OR ANY SUBSIDIARIES.” I don’t understand the lowercase.

        On a serious note, you are correct! Everything data collects. Microsoft is just one of the last companies to hop onto the bandwagon. IE, opera, Chrome, Firefox, Safari, all data collect. Google, Bing, Yahoo, Ask, all data collect. Credit card companies, home loans, loans, all data collect. Buy a car recently, guess what, data was collected on this. Steam, origin, uplay, all data collect. Store items in DropBox? How about OneDrive?

        This idea that microsoft is directly copying over your word documents, PDF files, Excel files, pictures, mp3’s, ect is just plain silly. First, that is an amazing amount of data to spy one. Secondly, to store somewhere. All they are looking at is the basic, “Do they actually put documents in my documents? Videos in videos? Do they use the desktop or start button more?” thing like this. Just like every one else.

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          Nobody said they collect every .doc and .pdf.

          That’s obfuscatory.

          Firefox makes it REAL easy to turn off telemetry, one checkbox.
          Crash reports, one checkbox.

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          “Microsoft is just one of the last companies to hop onto the bandwagon”

          And how is that a defense?

            • maxxcool
            • 4 years ago

            It’s not. its reality.

            –EVERY phone app you install reports on you, how long you use the app, how many times you click it, how often you update it, where you use it (geographicly)
            –Every phone call is GPS’sed by both your phone and the towers. Regardless of GPS settings, and sold.
            –Phones will soon collect data for submission when they detect immobility periods so they can sell what restaurants, movie houses, and GYM you go to.
            –keywords are datamined from your texts, tweats, instagrams etc..
            –Every post is cached, then datamined then posted.
            –Every picture you take or post **IS NOT LEGALLY YOURS ANYMORE*
            –how long you stay on any app screen or home screen is timed, then reported to better tune the experience to expose you to more sales opportunities.
            –Names of apps you install are datamined to fling more adverts to you by apple and google
            –even adblock has AD partners that are excluded from actual blocking..
            –hell you **do not actually own your phone**

            EDIT also forgot.. no ::
            –gas cards
            –rewards cards for groceries, movies, restaurants
            –debit cards
            –credit cards
            –mortgages
            –car loans
            –student loans
            –colleges
            –hotel reservation systems
            –atms
            –the internet.. the whole thing
            –your doctor
            –your pharmacy
            –your dentist
            –your optometrist
            –your veterinary clinic
            –using electricity, yep.. when you use juice is merchantable
            –your post office
            –fedex, ontrac, ups, usps etc….
            –car insurance
            –your social security number
            –your drivers license number
            –credit at any tire store regardless if you pay cash or not.

            edit edit …
            –club cards, sams club, costo etc ..

            there all selling your data already.

            you are sales identity 25f83745jtg8383.. that’s it

            YET, I bet you still have a android phone or iphone. and no amount of locking down stops the above.

            but god forbid microcosft try to do what apple and google has been perfecting for years. I

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        “. If datamining and telemetry isn’t ok the rail against literally every other major operating system as well.”

        BULL. Siri isn’t an OS, first off, nor do I use it. Cortana either.

        Google isn’t escaping my notice either. Nor is Comcast or anyone else.
        M$ doing it to existing customers doesn’t get a pass EITHER.

        All you DO is try to portray people who point out flaws with M$ as “nuts” as you said.

        Get a clue. You’re not fooling anybody with that. NOBODY is basing ANY decision to upgrade based on your fanboyism defense of indefensible business migration tactics.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          Except of course the millions upon millions who have upgraded. HAHAHAHA MOAR FALL FOR MY TACTICS OF GETTING ALL HUMANITY INTO THE WINDOWS 10 DATA COLLECTION SCHEME FOR LORD GATES

          #ILLUMINATI #WORLDDOMINATION #ROTHCHILDS

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Don’t reply to me anymore. You have nothing to add of any value.

            You are trolling and avoiding the reality that I’m correct in what I’ve said here.

            MS collects data and sells it to 3rd parties in Windows 10 where it did not in 7.

            Fact.

            You think not appreciating that makes one ‘crazy’ – actually no, your defense of it does.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Don’t reply? IT’S WHAT I LIVE FOR.
            And you probably know that m$ added telemetry to 7 and 8 in an update, so….

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Actually no, they added “some” telemetry in optional non-recommended or critical updates.

            AND it was added to facilitate the W10 upgrade process.

            Not the same. You’re again inventing.

            Stop trolling.

            • Whispre
            • 4 years ago

            Where is the proof that MS is selling data to third parties? Where is the details about what data they are selling?

            Accusations without facts are worthless.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Google it. Read about it. Denying something without investigating it is also worthless.

            • Whispre
            • 4 years ago

            I have googled, have read the ToS… and I don’t see anything to back up the wild claims you continue to make. If you want to accuse someone, it’s on YOU to provide proof.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Who did I accuse of anything? I cited FACTS.

            [url<]https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/[/url<] FACTS.

            • Whispre
            • 4 years ago

            You are citing a biased and inflammatory interpretation of facts… not the facts themselves.

            MS is not doing anything other companies haven’t done before them. If you want to avoid this, avoid the web.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            You didn’t read it. The actual license agreement is linked to at the bottom.

            The analysis explains in very clear terms what it means.

            And I KNOW you didn’t read it because I posted it 30 seconds ago.

            EDIT : you say 5 minutes, 4, fine.

            I said 30 seconds for convenience. You still DID NOT READ IT.

            • Whispre
            • 4 years ago

            Want facts?

            my post was a full 5 minutes after yours, not 30 seconds… oh and your post where you say you posted it 30 seconds ago was actually 10 minutes after you posted it!

            If this is an example of how you back up what you “KNOW” with facts… then you don’t know what you don’t know… you assume again that the only way I could have read the ToS was from your link… I’ve read them more than once, and directly from the source.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            You said it wasn’t the ‘actual information’ and it DOES link to that DIRECTLY.

            YOU DID NOT READ IT. You said it was “inflammatory” and it’s clearly NOT.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            You responded to zero information in it, claimed it was “inflammatory” lol?

            You didn’t read jack of it.

            I posted it a second time to the main forum as its own comment so people would see it, 30 seconds before I wrote “30 seconds ago” – you made a big deal of 30 seconds vs 4 minutes.

            It makes no difference. You’re spreading FUD here.

            • TheJack
            • 4 years ago

            Why else would they go through the trouble of collecting all that data?

            • Whispre
            • 4 years ago

            To provide a more reliable and useable (telemetry includes crash data and use pattern data) and more responsive (this is how things like Siri and Cortana learn your preferences) operating system.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            That they can sell that information is just an implausible coincidence, disregard it!

            • TheJack
            • 4 years ago

            Thanks for clarifying. One question though. Do you believe it yourself? Honestly?

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            I think honesty has sailed already. ALL THAT DATA IS FOR SALE.

            They *(anyone who buys it) can literally use it to profile you.

      • Meadows
      • 4 years ago

      Personal attacks? Where?

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        See comment by Theresa N, and follow up by our good friend here.

          • Meadows
          • 4 years ago

          I don’t care about that. You named me. Let’s talk about me.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            I can’t find the comment in question so you’re off the hook, I didn’t quote everybody.
            There was the other day with Krogoth but I forgive you if he does.

            “He’s nuts and no matter what the reality, is impossible to convince.”

            SSK basically denying reality, saying W10 doesn’t sell data that is NOT ‘easily turned off’.
            You agreed that I’m “nuts”, despite the fact that I’m 100% in the right about this little factlet.
            He probably doesn’t REALIZE what data he IS sending, potentially. He doesn’t want to.

            That doesn’t make me ‘nuts’ for pointing it out. And he’s, well, factually WRONG.
            You cannot EASILY turn off the data stream. In fact with TCM 2.0 it’s nigh-impossible.

            • Meadows
            • 4 years ago

            I’m fine with Windows 10 Pro.
            I’ve turned off Cortana. I’ve turned off having my Start Menu searches being sent to online search as well. I’ve turned off default app access to my location, my microphone, and webcam (in fact, I don’t even have a webcam). Telemetry is set to “basic”, which contains no personally identifying information and is important to Microsoft for fixing potential OS errors, therefore is in my best interests as well. I don’t use OneDrive and I don’t send my work material through Skype, therefore keeping my intellectual property off Microsoft’s “Services”, as outlined in the user agreement. And, finally, Windows Update does not install or reboot without my approval, although it does regularly remind me to do so.

            The user interface is much faster (I know, I’ve tested it versus Windows 8.1 on a weak 6-year-old laptop, it was actually visibly smoother), the look and feel is generally coherent, compatibility hasn’t gotten any worse, and then there’s the argument for future-proofing.

            Full disclaimer: I do not have it installed on my workhorse PC yet and might actually wish to wait for the next milestone update before I do.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            “Telemetry is set to “basic”, which contains no personally identifying information”

            They don’t necessarily need to get their PII from the telemetry. All they need is to assign a unique userID to you, (It does) and track a lot of metrics on what “that user” does, then sell that user profile to 3rd parties so they can sell “that user” ads targeted at “that user” when online.

            I’m NOT saying W10 has “no plusses” because it does obviously.
            The question is why we have to accept to be monitored, by default, to get them.

            Now they’ve gone and made it “free” to entice casual users who don’t necessarily know about that aspect of it, nor is it advertised. Hell, just mentioning it here I got called a liar multiple times already, even AFTER I linked to data about it! That tells me it’s not widely known or understood even here, on the relatively tech-savvy TR forum.

            Further, what will M$ pull on the next round of shenanigans, if this is the new normal?

            What next round of updates will activate what unknown/unwanted ‘features’, and why is there no clear and COMPLETE opt-out of this tracking/marketing BS? Even with telemetry data turned to “OFF” it STILL sends data home. That’s what I’m getting at.
            It’s NOT trivial to get W10 to stop that stuff.

            [url<]http://www.howtogeek.com/224616/30-ways-windows-10-phones-home/?PageSpeed=noscript[/url<] "This is just a conservative list, and isn’t complete. There are many other ways Windows 10 arguably phones home. Windows 10 includes apps for a variety of Microsoft services: Cortana, Bing, Outlook.com, OneDrive, Groove Music, MSN, and Xbox. Each of these services may have its own privacy policy and store data about you in a different place if you use them." "Microsoft could certainly do a better job of putting these options in a single place and better explaining them, though. They’re scattered not just across Windows 10’s interface, but across a variety of different Microsoft websites."

            • Meadows
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<]"They don't necessarily need to get their PII from the telemetry. All they need is to assign a unique userID to you, (It does) and track a lot of metrics on what "that user" does, then sell that user profile to 3rd parties so they can sell "that user" ads targeted at "that user" when online."[/quote<] That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. Microsoft need unique user IDs in order to track higher quality statistics (lumping together users or counting usage occurences only is inferior practice) and they basically use it to prepare prettier Powerpoints at work, nothing more.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            You wanna talk misrepresented, I have NEVER SAID MS DOESNT SELL DATA. You’re nuts, but ms collects and sells data. Both those are true.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            You said :

            “you’re entirely complacent with google, who has FAR greater mining historically yet spaz about ms.”

            I am not entirely complacent with Google. False. You lied there.

            And yes, you’ve claimed MS does not collect W10 data because “it’s easily turned off.”

            This is not the case, as I’ve linked to multiple sources so far pointing that out – and you reject it.

            I said you couldn’t admit M$ collected data and sold it and up until just now? You had not.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Which mobile os do you use? Also, you’re clearly able to manage any registry hacks that are required.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            I’m able to use registry hacks to stop data collection that I KNOW ABOUT, to some extent yes.
            The question is what’s to stop further changes or collection regimes?

            Why can’t the maker of the OS (the product I want to buy) make opting out default, or at the VERY least, simpler for most users? How can I trust them to not be constantly trying to screw me out of my privacy if this is their default approach, to do exactly that, for profit?

            Google I can use or avoid. Alternatives exist, they work fine.
            Windows I need for work, it’s not optional.

            I don’t use android or iOS if that’s what you were asking for comparison sake.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            So you don’t own a smartphone?
            Why can’t apple make macbooks out of something other than aluminum? Why can’t GM make me a hybrid 1500? cause they don’t.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            No, THEY DO. It’s called Windows 7, and it doesn’t have the baked-in W10 BS.

            They just made a MARKETING decision to force people away from that OS and INTO an ‘upgraded’ spying environment for the purpose (almost explicitly) of selling that info to advertisers – any who want it. It’s entirely an intentional DECISION to move that direction.

            They further made decisions to enable by default all the whizbang stuff that tracks you while leaving no clear cut instructions for how it works nor exactly how to turn it all off, and it’s not trivial like you claimed, it’s NOT one check box or even one control panel, it’s like a dozen.
            30+ items in that one link I have up, and it SAYS it’s not a complete list directly.

            And those people who don’t KNOW about it because they aren’t “nuts” like me to the point of “googling” (regardless of search engine, the verb is used for brevity) and investigating it, their data goes out the door unbeknownst to them, ongoing.

            You can say “oh, they all do it” and to a point that’s true. It’s also no excuse or defense.
            That does not make it right, or anything but a deliberate choice on their part.

            An indefensible one, despite… all of this above.

            • Glix
            • 4 years ago

            Actually, M$ has pack ported some of their data collection to Win7:

            [url<]https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3g7hr0/removing_telemetry_from_windows_7_and_8x/[/url<] 'Security'. Obviously the first real reason will be so they can see what hardware people are running, and see if they can raise the bar on requirements for the next OS deployment as it was all done in the run up to 10's launch. Now if only they could do the same for DX12...

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            And to answer your question I use a dumb phone right now that doesn’t track me beyond the location data of the physical antennae, because it cannot. The ISP/CA can, and were that not basically a monopoly situation in my neck of the woods I’d make much more virtuous choice in terms of who I trust to handle that.

            I might get one of the blackfone or granites someday but there’s absolutely nothing appealing to me about ANY of the android-vanillas or iphone T90X, it does not appeal.

            I’ve made a decision to do without the ‘features’ they offer for that reason, and I don’t regret it.

            M$ is forcing me to make a similar decision with my desktop environment, and frankly I’d MUCH rather stay with what I’ve paid for in both cash and time investigating the quirks of.

            If they remove that option and leave me nothing I can agree to in replacement?
            They lose a customer. Because my personal privacy is not for sale to my OS.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Well, I’ll give you chops for being consistent.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            And I’ll thumb you up for saying so without all caps. 🙂

            Honestly I don’t.. set out to ruffle feathers or pave a tinfoil highway.
            Or insult anyone. Or any company. Or any of that.

            Public information awareness. Windows 10 isn’t a perfectly wholesome model.
            I’m not an anti-microsoft entity in any sense. This is a specific issue.

    • TruthSerum
    • 4 years ago

    Yes, advertisemets are called “ads”, SSK, keen observation there.

    Data sent to M$ for ‘telemetry’ is also called phoning home, depending.
    Default install, W10 does both. As stated. Nothing too confusing, right?

    Perhaps nobody would bother digging in your data…
    M$ doesn’t need to sell to you, you’re sold.

    “Linux?!? Ahahahahahaa”

    The question is who is buying it. You don’t know.

    • VincentHanna
    • 4 years ago

    New insider build on the fast track, don’t know if it will make it into the November update or not, but it has miracast and DNLA enabled by default at the OS level.

    • VincentHanna
    • 4 years ago

    Since when is windows 10 not a recommended upgrade?

    If it’s not recommended, why is there a windows 10 helper icon in my tray?

      • Meadows
      • 4 years ago

      Because it’s suggested!

    • dikowexeyu
    • 4 years ago

    Lol. Gosquared shows that Windows 10 adotion is back to square one: last week crashed down to his first month level of usage since his launch.
    Actually, Windows 7 share grew over his pre launch levels.

    [url<]https://www.gosquared.com/global/windows/10/#launch[/url<]

    • yeeeeman
    • 4 years ago

    This is BS. I won’t upgrade to this piece of crap called Windows 10. Windows 7 forever!

      • psuedonymous
      • 4 years ago

      Then you’re exactly the same sort of person who is still clinging to Windows XP: If your computer is connected to the internet, you’re a malware incubator.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        Show us the malware protection that W10 affords over W8? Anytime.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          What?! windows 10 is far more secure, as 8 and 8.1 is over 7, as 7 was over vista, as vista was over xp….

          • ClickClick5
          • 4 years ago

          When microsoft stops patching, yes, this happens!

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            When it happens… isn’t yet.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            No, you’re right. Microsoft has excellent long term support. You should be able to continue with windows 7 until 2020. Of course, you’ll lose out on half a decades features, but if you’re cool with that, I understand.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            You’re cool with selling out, we understand. Nobody asked for your two cents here.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Selling out? What position do you think I started with that I sold?

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Integrity, I’d imagine?

            In addition to your personal data, habits, telemetry, marketing, sites visited…

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            I value the services telemetry provides. If I think it is a fake exchange, that’s not selling out, it’s capitalism.

            #whyyoupromotingcommunism

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Get off the internet, it’s socialist.

    • HERETIC
    • 4 years ago

    YOU MUST UPGRADE-YOU MUST UPGRADE-YOU MUST UPGRADE.

    Reminds me of a little bit of history-
    When Caxton brought the printing press to England,one of the books they thought everyone
    would want was a bible-After translating and printing they hit a hurdle-The church which
    was very powerful at the time pushed laws making it a crime to preach from one or to even
    own one-Penalties ranged from fines to imprisonment…………………………………

    IF PEOPLE DON’T COME TO CHURCH-HOW WILL WE GET THEIR MONEY?

    • Risme
    • 4 years ago

    This is the last nail to the coffin for me, which means that i now have two options:

    1.) If i can find suitable software for my CAD and CAE workflow needs that run on Linux i’ll just migrate to Linux completely.

    2.) If not, i will have to reconfigure my current computer as an offline workstation running Windows and get a second computer for internet use that is running on Linux.

    It’s sad, but i’m not surprised considering the fact, that at the end of the day there’s only two objectives in business: 1.) To maximize profits. and 2.) To minimize costs. Which means that businesses must be able and willing to exploit everything and everyone in pursuit of those objectives, and the bigger the corporation the more ruthless they tend to be in their methods.

      • meerkt
      • 4 years ago

      Or a third option: stay with your current version of Windows. In case you feel you need Microsoft security updates, Win8 is supported until 2023.

    • credible
    • 4 years ago

    I came here looking for a Blackdove sighting…have there been any, lol.

      • Meadows
      • 4 years ago

      He does have a comment here, the same old complaint about Windows Update working as it should.

    • TruthSerum
    • 4 years ago

    Microsoft has fanboys on this site who thumb down anyone who doesn’t want Windows 10.

    Too bad for them, nobody is fooled.

      • BlackDove
      • 4 years ago

      Theyre like Facebook like fraud farms.

      • TheJack
      • 4 years ago

      I understand your concerns, but then again you do realize that at some point you will have to move on, and you’ll lose and they’ll win?

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        You mean to Windows 10? No, I don’t have to.

        • lilbuddhaman
        • 4 years ago

        There was huge backlash when the Xbone’s privacy-raping “features” were announced, and they backpedaled.

        They’re trying it again with Win10 and the backlash is here, but they aren’t backpedaling, yet. I’m holding my ground here.

      • Krogoth
      • 4 years ago

      Drop the tin-foil hats.

      Internet companies have been data-mining users for over 20 years. Windows 10 isn’t really doing anything new here.

      My main problem with 10 is that it offers nothing compelling to the table to warrant the hassle of an upgrade. Telemetry is annoying for those who have bandwidth quotas.

        • GrimDanfango
        • 4 years ago

        Windows 10 is an operating system… not a webpage. Having your online browsing mined is one thing… having the entirety of your private local-machine usage mined is quite another.

        Windows 10 is absolutely doing something new here. Before they could only stare in through the window, now you’re inviting them to come and live in your house.

          • Krogoth
          • 4 years ago

          >implying that software publishers, anti-piracy measures and cloud services haven’t been doing that for over a decade

          >implying that it is any different in some *nix distributions

          It is hilarious that people are suddenly getting upset over the “loss of privacy” when that battle was decided decades ago. It just became more apparent in the post-WWW and social media era.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            “>implying that it is any different in some *nix distributions”

            Name them, if you want a real comparison, let’s go there.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            “It is hilarious that people are suddenly getting upset over the “loss of privacy” when that battle was decided decades ago”

            Maybe it’s not hilarious, and maybe these people aren’t ‘suddenly’ upset about it either.

            Why justify one more invasion on the grounds that people have been violated before?

        • TheJack
        • 4 years ago

        Well, data mining is a known evil, but here MS is going to new dimensions and recording everything you do on your personal computer and not over the internet. Saying anything other than absolutely condemning this behavior is a complete treachery against mankind and betrays the speaker as either a shill or a fool. But then again who gives a damn these days about such values.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        ” Windows 10 isn’t really doing anything new here.”

        It’s doing things the user doesn’t really want/need with their paid IP connection.
        Where I come from, that’s grayware to spyware to malware, depending.

        That TWC or Comcast do similar also doesn’t make the practice justifiable on MY desktop.
        Further, ISP’s have been forced to offer ‘opt-out’ DNS options.

        Windows 10 is doing new things, yes it is, and it’s pushing that on users like it’s an ‘upgrade’.
        The sales design seems to be centered around tracking people and selling that.

        At least the ISP’s have a legal monopoly to cement their evil. Windows 10, I have a choice.

      • End User
      • 4 years ago

      I see no downside to moving to Windows 10. My 7 year old system upgraded without a hitch. Are you tied to software/hardware that has issues with 10?

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        “I see no downside to moving to Windows 10” Reading isn’t for everyone I guess.

        No, I have no restrictions or I might have mentioned that, instead of what I did say.

          • End User
          • 4 years ago

          Just upgrade and get over it:

          [url<]https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/5337/windows-10-tip-understand-and-configure-privacy-settings[/url<]

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Peer pressure never worked on me nor the ‘free giveaway, limited time’ sales ploy.

            Sorry.

            • End User
            • 4 years ago

            Which OS are you sticking with?

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Windows 7, and despite the license, he wants new features FOREVER because he “PAID FOR IT” years ago and so it should be support for eternity.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            You really have a bad habit of putting words in people’s mouths, lying essentially.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Which part of what I said is false? I don’t want to misrepresent your views. Clarify, please.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            All you DO is misrepresent valid views intentionally.

            You’re a fanboy without scruples.

            You claimed I have no problem with Google’s data collection among other BS.

            Honestly, give it up, you’re not convincing anyone and you wish to avoid the reality.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            You’ve written literally dozens of posts criticizing M$ but literally 0 about other companies. I dont think I’m misrepresenting you.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Wrong. I’ve never criticized M$ outside of this decision.

            AND I’ve gone after Google, AND I’ve gone after Apple, AND I’ve gone after Comcast.
            You’re lying again.

            Why don’t you just stop trying to put words in my mouth, if you can control yourself?

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Stop lying SSK.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            You know what the “edit” button is for?

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            There’s nothing to edit about that.

    • armadylan
    • 4 years ago

    I used Windows ME for 2 years as a younger person not yet in control of the household computer.

    W10 is a cake walk.

      • Shouefref
      • 4 years ago

      I’m still using W Me (not at this moment), and the only reason I can’t use it always is because website builders started using functions I never asked for, or implied functions in another way then they usually did. Some online retailers lost me as a client because of that.
      It’s all about useless updates and artificial ageing.

    • sophisticles
    • 4 years ago

    Am I the only one that’s incredibly suspicious of why microsoft is so keen for everyone to “upgrade” to Win 10? MS has never been one to give away anything for free, they have gone out of their way to prevent their software from being used for free , they have never offered a new Windows version for free to existing users and yet now all of a sudden they, out of the goodness of their hearts, are willing to give Win 10 as a free upgrade to all legit Win 7 and Win8/8.1 users?

    And not only that, but they also make sure to “remind” you constantly about the chance to “upgrade”.

    I can’t be the only one that smells a rat.

    Considering that when the author of TruCrypt stopped offering encryption capabilities in his software he said that he no longer had confidence in the security of his software and he advised users to switch to a “secure” encryption technology like MS’ BitLocker, a statement that was met with significant chuckles and generally seen as a veiled admission that the NSA had put the squeeze on him to install a backdoor in his software.

    I have to think that the NSA has forced MS to install backdoors into Win 10, if not in earlier Windows versions and that this is the reason MS is so eager for people to start using Win 10.

    Somethings definately not right with this picture.

    For me it doesn’t matter, I have switched to Ubuntu-MATE and have no plans on going back to Windows ever.

      • TruthSerum
      • 4 years ago

      Win10 absolutely has phone home behavior and secret sauce going on “by default” and to me the only question is how possible is it to disable those services and use it like I use windows 7, selectively allowing services that I actually need to function securely and killing the rest.

      I’ve learned not to early adopt Microsoft product updates. Call me crazy, call me a fox.

      Truecrypt’s death was a different animal, I don’t know WHY they would EVER recommend the bitlocker encryption (worthless basically) as an alternative to Truecrypt, however, TC 7.1 had medium-major flaws but the audit did NOT find the NSA backdoor alleged to be inserted. (Not that finding such a thing would be trivial either…)

      Veracrypt is the TC fork that has patched these particular bugs.

      EDIT : The -3 trolls need to go away.

      • BlackDove
      • 4 years ago

      You dont even need confirmation of that to hate Windows 10. The terms make it perfectly clear that everything you say, type and all data that passes through a Windows 10 computer belongs to Microsoft to analyze and forward to unnamed third parties.

        • Krogoth
        • 4 years ago

        You can say the same for almost every for-profit internet organization on the web since Internet became commercialized.

          • BlackDove
          • 4 years ago

          Except not many other things have terms like Windows 10, including any previous version.

      • Shouefref
      • 4 years ago

      You’re not.
      I’m suspicious too.
      There might be some good reasons to make sure everybody uses the same OS. It would simplify things enormously.
      But we know that new is not always better.
      E.g.: since W XP you can only have 3 activations of your legal copy, whereas previously that was unlimited. Why? So that MS makes more money, of course.
      Another problem is that there is always something that doesn’t work anymore they way you wanted it. That might be a small thing, but precisely just that small thing might be very important for an individual user.
      And what’s the use of improving one thing, if you get a drawback on another?
      Therefore I just won’t upgrade.

        • sweatshopking
        • 4 years ago

        YOU’RE STILL USING WINDOWS ME!

          • Shouefref
          • 4 years ago

          Not always. Not at this moment, for instance.
          And, why are you shouting that?

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            #SILLYQUESTION

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            #STOP TROLLING

            • Ninjitsu
            • 4 years ago

            He’s not shouting, his caps lock key gets stuck sometimes. 😀

            • BIF
            • 4 years ago

            No, he’s shouting.

            • Meadows
            • 4 years ago

            No he’s not. He’s funny.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Shouting isn’t funny except on occasion. The unfunny part is evident also.

            • LostCat
            • 4 years ago

            If it wasn’t a long running SSK in-joke I might agree with you.

            • trackerben
            • 4 years ago

            SSk is being SSK

      • Shouefref
      • 4 years ago

      Basically it boils down to this: MS is a company, and companies want to make money.
      We’re the customer, so we’re the people they want to get the money from.
      Therefore we should never trust them with our money.
      It’s a simple as that.

        • Whispre
        • 4 years ago

        [quote<]Basically it boils down to this: MS is a company, and companies want to make money. We're the customer, so we're the people they want to get the money from. Therefore we should never trust them with our money.[/quote<] So, you don't trust a bank with your money either... or retirement company, or investment broker....

          • VincentHanna
          • 4 years ago

          Other companies are actually responsible.

          If someone robs a bank, [b<]the bank[/b<] is on the hook, but the depositors are not. That's one of the services that banks actually offer. Also, banks don't make money from (banking) customers, they make money by loaning your money out at a higher interest rate than what they pay you for the privilege.

            • Whispre
            • 4 years ago

            I notice you didn’t mention the retirement or investment companies… and if you don’t think banks are making money off the fees they charge you, the interest you pay on your cred card, or the interest you pay on your loans think again.

            • VincentHanna
            • 4 years ago

            My bank doesn’t charge me fees. My bank pays all ATM fees(even from out of network banks), my accounts are all fee free, I make 4% interest(during the bubble it was over 8%), and free checks, billpays, ach transfers, and etc. The only thing I’ve ever needed to pay a fee for was brokerage. My bank even offers free retirement/financial planning services and fee free mutual funds.

            If your bank is charging you a fee for the privilege of loaning your money to people, go find another bank…

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Well, that service is actually the FDIC backing the bank, not the bank itself.

            • VincentHanna
            • 4 years ago

            FDIC is insurance that banks are required to hold. And banks pay for that insurance. If MSFT wanted to insure my data to protect themselves against loss, I’d be fine with that.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Me also!

      • Krogoth
      • 4 years ago

      It has nothing do with “backdoors”.

      It is more to do with Microsoft trying to force people to upgrade 7 and 8 system because they are getting desperate for more sales and making sure that somebody doesn’t make a successful break in their OS stronghold.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        The telemetry phone-home stuff is not made up.

        [url<]http://winaero.com/blog/how-to-disable-telemetry-and-data-collection-in-windows-10/[/url<] I agree that tricking/enticing/then forcing people to upgrade is a big deal also. We've been waiting for the year of the Linux desktop for a LONG TIME now. 2016 might be it.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          Linux?!? Hahahahahhahaha

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Linux, now not forcing telemetry data or ads on users! ALSO FREE.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            ? android is linux, it’s far and away the most data mining operating system, and easily the most ad filled. You’re welcome to install linux. I ran it for years. enjoy all the AAA games it supports. that’s a perfectly reasonable response to an operating system you don’t like. Your insistence on ignoring the license and fanatic windows 10 = literally satan isn’t.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Actually it’s YOU who is ignoring the license being CHANGED.

            [url<]https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/[/url<]

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            “MS fanboys!?!?!? HAHAHAHAHAH!” Ugh, beneath me..

          • Krogoth
          • 4 years ago

          Protip: The internet is a not secured medium

          Internet companies have been phoning home and data mining since the internet became commercialized.

          How do you think Google became such a juggernaut? Microsoft is just taking a play from Google’s playbook (Chrome OS). Windows 10 is just Microsoft’s latest gambit on trying outdo Google.

          Any intelligence agency worth its weight in salt was been snooping on the general public and communication mediums for decades. The only difference is just more people are aware of it.

            • GrimDanfango
            • 4 years ago

            Windows 10 marks the first time under Windows at least that such snooping has broken out of the bounds of the web-browser and is now woven into the fabric of the entire OS though.

            I can *just* about keep a lid on the endless and endlessly evolving stream of privacy invasion directed at my browser… the point at which I sign up to an OS that uses it as its primary revenue stream, and evolves itself via its own automatic “security”-update system, is the point where I sign away any possibility of maintaining some basic level of privacy.

            I really don’t see the point of essentially saying “well, they’re stealing from you already, might as well give them the keys to your house”

            • Krogoth
            • 4 years ago

            >implying that hasn’t already happened a decade ago, but then nobody cared expect the ultra-paranoid types.

            The masses set the precedent with social media and integrating so many personal things with the internet. It is too late to cry foul play.

            • GrimDanfango
            • 4 years ago

            Well, I’ve been crying foul play since the beginning… but that’s besides the point. I’m not implying this is a new thing… I just fail to see, given the choice of continuing to speak out against it or shutting up and accepting it, how any good can come of the latter.
            Sure, it might ultimately change very little to continue to resist it, but the alternative is guaranteed to achieve absolutely nothing, and in fact is pretty much guaranteed to accelerate the process instead.

            So, why exactly do you feel the need to endlessly communicate the supposed pointlessness of even discussing it?

            • Ifalna
            • 4 years ago

            As long as the datamining can be turned off, I fail to see the problem. No one forces you to use Cortana or any of the other stuff. I don’t use it either and set all buttons to “off”.

            I do use onedrive for non sensitive data. Sensitive stuff gets encrypted and sent to another secure cloud until OD allows encryption.

            But believe it or not, for Cortana to be effective she NEEDs to be fed data. If she doesn’t know anything about you and is not allowed to track what you do in the web, how is she supposed to make suggestions of relevance to you?

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            It’s basically a registry hack to turn it off. Out of the realm of “default user”

            • Ifalna
            • 4 years ago

            1) I don’t give a hoot about what the “normal user” is capable of or not
            2) the “normal user” is way to busy digitally prostituting himself via Facebook & co, he doesn’t need MSs help to plaster his personal data all over the web
            3) In lieu of 2), I don’t think the “normal user” gives a damn about MS gathering a bit of telemetry
            4) Why do you need a registry hack? There are normal buttons to turn the collection off. With everything turned off, I doubt Win10 sends more data than Steam, Origin or Uplay or your average stock setting browser.

            What this really boils down to is people like you being needlessly paranoid about stuff. If you want your information to be (sorta) 100% secure, there is only one way: Do NOT connect the system in question to the Internet. That’s why truly sensitive control devices are OFFLINE computers.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            “There are normal buttons to turn the collection off.” Nope, not all of it.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            “What this really boils down to is people like you being needlessly paranoid about stuff.”

            What this boils down to is you, the frog in the pot, not realizing the water gets hotter incrementally until you’re boiled.

            • Ifalna
            • 4 years ago

            Browsers, Steam & co already spy on us. While I don’t like Win10 doing I don’t see a reason to go all out in arms about it (as if we could change anything anyway).

            It comes down to “Do I need to use this software or not?” and I do need steam and browsers on my gaming machine, so Win10 spying doesn’t make much of a difference now.

            As I said: you want to operate with truly sensitive data (hardly applies to the average joe’s private stuff), do so on an offline system.

            But keep on clicking that minus button, if you get a kick out of it. I don’t mind.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            “as if we could change anything anyway”

            You vote with your wallet and your OS choice, really.

            I don’t see that ‘others spy on us also’ is a defense.

            And you can mitigate that in browsers, you have a choice of browsers and within that, functionality in terms of data telemetry with a single click. Not so here.

            It’s NOT about the sensitivity of my data either, it’s about the principle of user privacy.
            If you have NO expectation of it, then don’t expect any given.

            This is a slippery slope you’re correct and it’s not limited to M$ – but why give them a pass?

            • Ifalna
            • 4 years ago

            Because there aren’t any alternative OSes that can compete with Windows on desktop gaming rigs?
            (I’ve tried Linux, it sucked.)

            Sadly MS is in a position where they can dictate terms, whether we like it or not.

            Voting with your wallet won’t work as they will force the upgrade eventually.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            I meant within the M$ umbrella, for existing customers who want to use windows, but don’t want their personal browsing habits and what not sold to the highest 3rd party bidder.

            Linux is a leap for a desktop environment but closer every day. And now with a fire under me.

            • Ifalna
            • 4 years ago

            Well Win 8.1 / 7 still have support, so until they cut it peeps are free to use Win 8/7.

            I doubt that MS will ever be capable to truly force the upgrade on users.

            But once support for 8 & 7 ends, people will start becoming a serious security risk like peeps that still use xp today.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            That’s exactly what I’m not looking forward to, but pointing at down the road.

            • BIF
            • 4 years ago

            Turning off Cortana is not a “registry hack”. There’s a toggle switch in your Windows 10 settings. Stop trying to scare people. Oh wait, maybe you’ve NEVER USED Windows 10.

            So right now we have a “default user” telling other default users how things work?

          • BIF
          • 4 years ago

          [quote<]We've been waiting for the year of the Linux desktop for a LONG TIME now. 2016 might be it.[/quote<] Yeah, not likely. But it's cute that you think that.

        • GrimDanfango
        • 4 years ago

        Desperate for more sales? Of a free OS?
        What they’re desperate for is everyone in the world to upgrade as soon as humanly possible before the full ramifications come to light. Once they’ve tied everyone in, there’s less chance people will revert once they start hearing things they don’t like (it might even permenantly convert keys so people are unable to revert after their 31-day rollback period)

        What they’re desperate for, is their entire global userbase to be available as a saleable commodity to advertisers or whoever else wants to buy everyone’s personal data, application usage and browsing habits, and whatever else they choose to farm.

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          EXACTLY right.

          • Ifalna
          • 4 years ago

          What they want is people to upgrade ASAP so they can cut the expensive support of old OSes.

            • DoomGuy64
            • 4 years ago

            It’s really the same OS. Just newer versions have newer features.

          • BIF
          • 4 years ago

          When they’re found out (if what you’re saying is true), then it will be Volkswagen all over again, and we’ll all watch the congressional bloviators in their hearings.

      • moshpit
      • 4 years ago

      “Genesys will be a free download for everybody in the world!” Yeah, that worked out REAL well in Terminator 😛

        • Krogoth
        • 4 years ago

        Pffft, I like it better when it was called Daedaleus and Aquinas.

      • sweatshopking
      • 4 years ago

      Well, stick with Ubuntu. If you’re really not up on the whole ecosystem thing and microsofts app problems I can see the confusion. Most people on this site, however, are familiar with the fact Microsoft needs apps in it’s store BADLY, and the only way to make that happen is a billion users. Free gets people on windows 7 to update and join the new ecosystem. Not confusing. Not secret, they’ve said it themselves, and logical.

        • DoomGuy64
        • 4 years ago

        Microsoft does need apps, but users still want to use programs. I don’t see that changing even if they force everyone to upgrade. Profits will suffer from the giveaway, and I wonder if they’ll pull a zune on the app store after they realize nobody is actually buying into it.

        • GrimDanfango
        • 4 years ago

        Microsoft may need apps in its store, but do users? Personally, I’ve always been perfectly happy with the whole “download the apps I need directly from the developers and install it myself” approach.

        All the “ecosystem” I need is Firefox, my graphics applications, Libreoffice, Steam/GOG Galaxy, and few other odds and ends, all very easy to source directly from their respective websites, and most even auto-update themselves. I’d really rather the very operating system I’m using didn’t start force-feeding me recommendations on all the ad-supported crap it’s decided I might want.

        “Ecosystem” isn’t a technical term – it’s marketing buzzword.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          Microsoft now has 14% of users. Down from 95% a few years ago. Users want apps.

            • DoomGuy64
            • 4 years ago

            Actually, I’d say it’s more like users want a decent experience where the hardware and software just works. I understand this is the point to Microsoft’s Apps, but it’s not good enough, and it cannibalizes their existing market. Hardware quality is questionable too. Intel has a complete monopoly on hardware, and it’s hurting the ecosystem. Specifically, integrated graphics is. ARM has Adreno, PowerVR, Mali, Tegra, etc. X86? Intel, and it’s destroyed the user experience on mobile devices. Perhaps things would be better with AMD? Dunno, because we aren’t given that option. Dedicated laptop chips with 1GB of ram aren’t a good option either. It’s just bad all around.

            Apple did it right. Samsung did it right. Microsoft? *Chuckle.*

            They didn’t even need to make “apps”. Microsoft could have just upgraded the UI, and sold certified programs. The dual-OS, poor hardware, and x86 price gouging were all a recipe for failure. You can get a good android tablet with great hardware for $200. Where’s the Microsoft equivalent? Doesn’t exist. You’re paying $1500 for anything vaguely usable, and the $200 android device still wins on ease of use. EG: Where’s swipe typing at? Yeah, it’s not the apps.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            I agree that Ms’ x86 early tablets weren’t great. That being said, I just ordered another dell venue 8 pro. Swipe typing has been on the mobile os for years. Idk why it isn’t there on the tablet.
            Surface devices are good experiences, and we will have to see how windows 10 pays off in the long term.

            • BIF
            • 4 years ago

            Yeah, I doubt this is true.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Which part? [url<]http://www.geekwire.com/2014/microsoft-exec-admits-new-reality-market-share-longer-90-14/[/url<]

      • VincentHanna
      • 4 years ago

      It’s not “all of a sudden”

      It was promised when windows 8 launched. The only surprise was offering it as a free upgrade to win 7 users as well, but honestly, that makes sense when you think about it for more than 5 seconds. Its also not FREE. its a FREE UPGRADE. MSFT is still selling their OS for $100 bucks a pop, just like they always have.

      • End User
      • 4 years ago

      Microsoft is frantically trying to shore up their once dominant position. The push to Windows 10 is an attempt to get the Windows (desktop/mobile) ecosystem back to a position of strength. The problem is that the Windows Store is an absolute failure. Where goes the ecosystems Store goes the ecosystem. Having crusty long time users bail on Windows 10 is just the icing on the cake. You are shooting yourselves in the foot. Enjoy your Android/iOS/Linux future.

        • Krogoth
        • 4 years ago

        Nah, the biggest problem is that desktop system is become an anachronism like Big Irons of 1970-1980.

        People aren’t going out of their way to get a desktop system when their aging system can handle all of their computing needs.

        PHB-types find it difficult to justify an upgrade/migration from a matured 7/2008 R2 ecology.

        Portable systems is what is currently selling. Microsoft is still a drunken idiot in this segment that tries too hard, but fails spectacularly in execution.

        The future of personal computing platforms is going to be *nix, but it will not take shape for another decade. Microsoft’s sheer size will ensure that it take a while for something to take its place.

          • trackerben
          • 4 years ago

          The predicted trend taking hold. It’s not a post-PC but a post-desktop world that’s a-trending now. Microsoft has much less traction here than the others.

        • sweatshopking
        • 4 years ago

        I fully agree with your post. These guize will freak out about the dying desktop losing importance while fighting the only possible way to save it.

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          False, W10 is not going to save anything except your personal data and habits.

          The desktop didn’t die, those silly predictions have. REPEATEDLY.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Not sure if you have seen the quarterly sales declines for years now.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            When it’s ZERO you’ll have predicted something.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            That’s a very strange bar to set.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            A silly prediction is a silly prediction, yes. Even a decade later.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Your sentence doesn’t make sense.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Fanboyism doesn’t require much sense.

            • cygnus1
            • 4 years ago

            The market doesn’t have to hit zero for it to be unprofitable…

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            For “the Desktop to be dead” it does.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            And there is profit in the desktop pc market, even yet.

            I don’t know where you got that idea that it’s a money losing market, entirely, lol?
            It’s slowed due to tablets and other factors. Dead?

            It’s a silly prediction made for 10+ years now.

            • cygnus1
            • 4 years ago

            I never said that it’s currently unprofitable. Although it is for some and that is why we are seeing consolidation in the market.

            But you’re beating a straw man though and clearly don’t understand economic/wall street jargon. “Desktop market is dead” or “Desktop market is dying” doesn’t mean nobody is selling desktops. It refers to growth. It just means there is zero or negative growth.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            “Dead” != Dying. Declining sales @~20% for 5 quarters != “Dead”

            Princess Bride, mostly dead vs all dead scene, yadda.

            • cygnus1
            • 4 years ago

            Sorry buddy, but we’re not talking about an actual living thing. You just have to accept that sometimes names for concepts don’t actually imply the literal meaning of each word.

            If you don’t like what “dead market” means in wall street jargon then definitely don’t google “Cleveland Steamer”, has nothing to do with the town or steam…

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            NOW I WANNA KNOW WHAT THAT IS.

            • cygnus1
            • 4 years ago

            Let us know if you enjoy it… [url<]http://bfy.tw/2Pux[/url<]

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            It’s funny because they said that 10 years ago. And it was wrong then also.

            Which… was my point.

      • _ppi
      • 4 years ago

      It’s called UNIVERSAL APPS and presence in mobile world.

      Microsoft *NEEDS* all the devs to swap over to universal apps, so that the Windows Store does not look like empty warehouse. Without thriving Windows Store, MS will not have a chance to succeed in mobile world.

      The best way to convince devs to develop universal apps is … you guessed right … BIG Windows 10 install base.

      And frankly, I would much rather have centralized, secured place to look for my applications, than downloading them from various websites and hoping I am not downloading it from some fake-trojan-injecting site.

      As it stands now, the Windows Store apps are inferior to those downloaded over the website (I am looking at you, VLC).

      No need for wild conspiracy theories about MS selling your data. But being paranoid does not mean Google/your ISP aren’t already doing it.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        Duckduckgo doesn’t, and my ISP offers “opt out” DNS addresses that don’t, allegedly.

        The central app store depends on vetting. Apple got hosed multiple times.
        Will M$ be more on top of it than Apple?

      • maxxcool
      • 4 years ago

      Yet you have a smartphone. which is doing this while you type your post.

      • brucek2
      • 4 years ago

      I think their long term plan is along the lines of “free to play” games. The game install and an initial positive experience are free. Then as time goes on and the user feels more locked in, suddenly there are more and more headwinds that cost money to fix.

      Perhaps the amount of space on the UI devoted to ads increases, unless you pay a higher monthly fee. Or more and more applications/commands that used to be included are switched to premium requiring monthly fee, like they already did with Solitaire and DVD playback.

      • Crackhead Johny
      • 4 years ago

      We will see when the other shoe drops. MS is in the business of making money.
      As someone said if something is free then you are the product.
      After talking to MS people what is going to happen is not clear. At a security conference the MS guy said 10 is the last MS OS and it will be just upgrades for the rest of time so there will be a yearly licensing fee. (the other 2 MS guys in the booth grew pale when he said this)
      This doesn’t sync up because the Microsoft site has an EOL for 10 published (2025 IIRC).
      My TAMs say they have heard nothing about a yearly fee and were interested in the name of the MS guy talking about one.
      Free also doesn’t make sense unless MS thinks they will be able to harvest enough private data to make up for the price of an OS or sell enough through desktop advertising to turn a profit.
      So right now I do not know what will happen in the future but I am suspicious.

      • Crackhead Johny
      • 4 years ago

      What does a rat smell like?
      In the 80s the guy with the Ratt T shirt probably smelled like Polo or Drakkar Noir.

    • Peldor
    • 4 years ago

    OS X./iOS users: well of course I have the latest update
    Android users: Will I ever get I an update? wahhhhhhh!
    Windows users: Free update? Noooooo!

      • TruthSerum
      • 4 years ago

      “Free update! *That you may or may not even want! Just accept all the conditions!”

        • cygnus1
        • 4 years ago

        If my 85 year old grandmother and 63 year old mother can manage to not update their windows 8.1 systems, I don’t think MS is being that tricky…

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          If anecdotes made phoning home and selling advertising data to 3rd parties trivially inconsequential, you mean?

        • willmore
        • 4 years ago

        It’s an update, not an upgrade. Important distinction.

        • maxxcool
        • 4 years ago

        Like on your phone 🙂

      • maxxcool
      • 4 years ago

      Bahahahaha +1

    • TruthSerum
    • 4 years ago

    NEVAR! I’ll not be turned.

    • BlackDove
    • 4 years ago

    Theyve already silently downloaded 6GB of the Windows 10 installer on millions of PCs that have automatic updates on, so this is hardly news.

    • My Johnson
    • 4 years ago

    I’ve had issues getting computers with fresh installs of previous Windows licenses updated to Windows 10, and I think it’s because I am not bothering to install the display drivers before attempting an update. After give up trying to update to Windows 10, settle on the older version, and install display drivers, suddenly the install updates to Windows 10 fine.

    Just throwing that out there.

      • Shouefref
      • 4 years ago

      Well, that’s one of those “small things” I was talking about in another reaction. You never know when it’s gonna hit you.

    • UnfriendlyFire
    • 4 years ago

    So what if the laptop/desktop manufacturer said they won’t support Windows 10?

    I have a laptop where Windows 8 and 10 trigger a firmware bug, which causes to laptop to crash upon resuming from sleep mode.

      • rahulahl
      • 4 years ago

      Then dont update? You still have to accept the EULA before updating. I am sure you can just hide the update in windows update if you wished.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        But the “default user” might not know their store-bought machine has such a limitation.

        And they get bricked by following MS recommended “sales update” – seems legit to you?

          • rahulahl
          • 4 years ago

          To be honest, if the person has no idea about their machine having an issue with Windows 10, they will likely try the Windows 10 update on their own and get bricked anyway. I dont like this forced update, but since people do have a chance to say no before it updates, I dont see this being that big an issue.

        • UnfriendlyFire
        • 4 years ago

        Not every user of the laptop is aware of the firmware problem. Only if they had already fiddled with Windows 8 or 10 previously on the laptop, or had done some very specific research about the “crash upon resuming from sleep mode” bug.

          • rahulahl
          • 4 years ago

          Oh I agree. I just expect people who have no idea about the bug to try updating to Windows 10 anyway. People who don’t want Windows 10 will still say no to it, and people who don’t mind Windows 10 or don’t know any better and want the latest thing will try updating anyway, this just makes it simpler for them.

          I have had windows update break my windows installation, and this is no different. Unfortunately it happens, and there isn’t much you can do about it if you are not tech savy.
          Like I said before, I am not sure I agree with this aggressive push, but I don’t think this will be a major problem for windows users.

    • Antias
    • 4 years ago

    I am curious.
    All my PC’s at home are running Windows 7 so of course i’m getting the reminder to update on all my PC’s. As so many people on these TR forums keep reacting with how bad Windows 10 is, I’ve hesitated to update. However, I kinda figure i’ll upgrade them all before the end of the free period.
    So what ARE the issues with Windows 10 for a standard install kida guy with a few gaming titles (Skyrim, ESO, E:D, DDO, etc…) , 4K screen, GTX980, etc..?
    I’m starting to wonder whats holding me back if i cant see any real issues?
    Thoughts?

      • odizzido
      • 4 years ago

      There is one big thing holding me back from even trying it…forced restarts. W10 updated itself and restarts your comp regardless of what you’re doing. I’ve been playing games with people on W10 and windows will reset itself right in the middle of our game. It’s unacceptable and I will just stay with 7 if they don’t change it.

        • DarkMikaru
        • 4 years ago

        Now, not to call you a liar. I’m absolutely not doing that. However, in my many many years of using Windows I can’t say I ever remember it doing that without my telling it to. Now, I do remember XP, Vista & 7 asking me to update and selecting a count down. Say 1 hour… and then I forget to renew and it starts restarting on me. I stay mad for about 5 seconds then say… oops.. i forgot to tell it no today. Oh well. Guess I am just fortunate. I’ve not seen any forced reboots on any of my Windows 10 machines…at work or at home.

        I’m sorry to hear that. I agree, that would be something that would annoy me as well.

          • Ninjitsu
          • 4 years ago

          Odizzido isn’t making that up, Win 10 Home forces you to install the updates no matter what you’re doing. Pro lets you defer the update.

          On Windows 7 for me, it absolutely won’t restart until I let it, at worst it nags at me every 4 hours and may end up minimizing the game I’m playing.

          This update thing is one of the major reasons I’m holding off, cost to benefit ratio just isn’t high enough for me.

            • Zizy
            • 4 years ago

            Home has 2 options – automatically, schedule restart.
            Automatically = windows updates and will restart over night (3 AM) if you are using your PC at the moment. It might restart immediately if you aren’t using the computer at that moment, not sure. Never happened to me yet – all restarts were over night so far.
            Schedule restart = windows updates and then throws you a popup, asking when you want to restart the computer (or to restart now). Not sure for how long you can postpone the restart, I was able to postpone it for about 20 hours so the simulations finished and never needed more than that so far.

            Therefore, yup, it does force you to install the updates. But it shouldn’t restart and apply them just like that – in the middle of the game or whatever. Unless you play at 3AM and the stupid machine doesn’t change that time to something more convenient.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 4 years ago

            Thanks for the input and clarification. Can you schedule for a week away or something?

            • DarkMikaru
            • 4 years ago

            Not saying I don’t believe him. To many people have reported it as a problem. I’m just saying on my Windows 10 Laptop, Windows 10 work desktop, Windows 10 HP Stream 7 Tablet and Windows 10 home desktop it’s never done it. Hopefully I never do see this problem as it would be annoying. Maybe it’s rare int he grand scheme of things. 10 is great and for free, can’t beat that.

        • psuedonymous
        • 4 years ago

        Windows 10 will download and queue updates, then flag up a notification with the proposed restart time, and prompt you to either restart now, to set a delay (e.g. “delay until Sunday” or “delay for X hours/days”), or to just wait until the scheduled restart time. This will be a popup, and also sit in the Notifications bar (WIN+A). If you ignore it and hope it goes away, it will prompt a restart at the time it tells you it will.

          • Ninjitsu
          • 4 years ago

          From what I’ve gathered, that’s only with Win 10 Pro.

            • End User
            • 4 years ago

            Who in their right mind uses Windows 10 Home?

            • Krogoth
            • 4 years ago

            People with OEM systems.

            • End User
            • 4 years ago

            Exactly. I shed no tears.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            I have home on some of my pc’s. no reason to use pro. I have pro licenses around, just no reason to use them.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 4 years ago

            Whoever doesn’t have Windows 7 Pro?

            And since there’s a chance you may ask, who would use 7 Home, I’d say anyone who has to buy a licence – because Pro is more expensive.

            And Win 7 Pro doesn’t have any feature that I would need for a home computer.

        • maxxcool
        • 4 years ago

        omg not this again… my copy of professional does not do this .. because its professional. you have a consumer copy… and they (MS) have clearly stated that consumer copies WILL be forced to patch and reboot because ”people” refuse to patch and make the intertnetz worse for everyone else.

      • DarkMikaru
      • 4 years ago

      No, absolutely do it. If anything just for the faster boot times even on old HDD based machines. Plus, with gaming you’ll be set for DirectX12 performance boost in the coming months when developers get to grips. Everyone in my circle is happy with 10. Even die hards who hated 8 with a passion are conceding that 10 got it right. It did.

      Only problem that I had was it killed my old Best Buy brand Rocket Fish Bluetooth adapter. Worked on 8.1 fine, but after the upgrade…dead as a door nail. Since this was at work it wasn’t a big deal, i could just use my phone to listen to my music over my bluetooth headphones. After a few weeks I had some down time and tried again. Windows 10 found it, installed it and I was back in business with minimal effort. Other than that..it’s been seamless.

        • Antias
        • 4 years ago

        Thank you – it’s good to hear something positive in all the negative.
        I’ve considered perhaps updating one of my secondary PC’s first (perhaps my Alienware laptop) to see the process through…
        Cheers

          • DarkMikaru
          • 4 years ago

          No problem. That is a good idea. For me, it was my HP laptop that I upgraded first. Gave 10 a test drive and then decided to upgrade the work & home machines after I felt comfortable with 10.

          Enjoy man. Let us know how it goes for you.

        • BlackDove
        • 4 years ago

        Not everyone wants a spyware operating system with ads in their start menu, every keystroke(including all passwords on any site) or word spoken recorded and sent to Microsoft and forwarded to unnamed third parties.

          • rxc6
          • 4 years ago

          You forgot your tinfoil hat in the last W10 discussion… Now, for real, I have never seen your alleged ads in the start menu. Not now, not ever.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Just because YOU haven’t seen stuff doesn’t mean it DOES NOT EXIST.

            • rxc6
            • 4 years ago

            SHOW ME A SCREENSHOT WITH ADS THEN!!! Otherwise, stfu applies.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            GOOGLE IT YOURSELF, STFU APPLIES NOW.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            I DO NOT USE WINDOWS 10 NOR IS IT MY JOB TO HELP YOU USE GOOGLE EITHER!

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Windows 10 may show you “suggested apps” in the start menu based on games or apps you’ve used in some of the newer builds.. If that qualifies as ads, he’s right. It’s also super easy to disable with a single toggle in the settings app. Otherwise. He’s nuts and no matter what the reality, is impossible to convince.

            • Meadows
            • 4 years ago

            You’re right, sweatshopking.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            So if ads qualify as ads, I’m correct, on a default install.

            And if telemetry data sent to MS is data ‘phoned home’, I’m correct about that.

            So I guess you agree that yes, it is a little nuts, and I’m absolutely right about what I’ve said of it.

            Thanks?

            Meadows you can chime in anytime on that too.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            I don’t know if i’d consider them ads. Live tiles show, and have always shown, relevant data. they show emails, new apps, text messages.
            as for telemetry, which mobile os do you use? you’re entirely complacent with google, who has FAR greater mining historically yet spaz about ms.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            ” you’re entirely complacent with google ” Actually nope, you don’t put words in my mouth.

            And you STILL can’t admit they sell advertising data, it’s just amazing. Deluded!

            • Spunjji
            • 4 years ago

            You keep telling people to Google things, so at some point you must be fine with them and their business practices.

            You have made this thread extremely tiresome to read.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            I suggest they give up their privacy on one search to use google to find information and educate themselves about default data collection regimes before DENYING THEY EXIST.

            Alternatively, you can use duckduckgo which does not track you.

            You’re welcome, and yes I agree the thread has become very tiresome trying to get people to accept the fact that Windows 10’s release coincided with a change to their privacy policy.

            If you said the sky was blue and someone called you a liar and said you’re crazy, you might find yourself engaged in a tiresome argument on the topic until either they LOOK UP AND SEE, or they flame/discredit/insult you until they tire themselves out of it and leave.

          • maxxcool
          • 4 years ago

          Better stop using phones then. Or ANY apple product in the last 7 years. Or your cablebox, Or satellite receiver, or your car, or your work computer, or email from ANY vendor, hell you better not log into TR… your log in rate and post rate is a merchantable metric. EVEN BETTER… every post you make in *this* thread is valued and datamined by TR’S advertisers, TR itself, and any third party site-crawler including microsoft EVEN if your ToR’d to your underwear.

      • Ifalna
      • 4 years ago

      For a normal install person like me Win10 mostly works just fine.

      I still have some weird sound bug when the PC is left unattended and enters standby (playback periodically pauses for a few seconds every minute or so) but that is the only issue.

      • Whispre
      • 4 years ago

      I’ve had zero issues with Windows 10 on any of my 6 PC’s at home. My daughter was able to upgrade her computer on her own with no issues (she’s 14 btw).

      While some people may have issues, I would suggest you bear in mind that the people complaining on the internet are the “vocal minority” and don’t necessarily reflect the reality about how successful people in general are with upgrading.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        Anecdotal sample size of 1 duly noted.

          • Whispre
          • 4 years ago

          Now you are just being petulant, especially since I wasn’t even responding to your post. and btw, 7 PC’s > 1.

          I didn’t bother to mention the 400 we’ve upgraded at work either.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            If you want to be a pedant, ANECDOTAL sample size of 1 duly noted.

            • Whispre
            • 4 years ago

            Just pointing out that if you want to continually cite what you say as facts… make sure they are accurate.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            As accurate as a single anecdote from someone who refused to read the actual data?

            As accurate as calling people “emotional haters” because they say W10 is full of ad/spyware and they’re disappointed that anyone criticizing it is being attacked here, which IS true?

            As accurate as “inflammatory” when CLEARLY it’s just analysis based on the actual data?

            Get a grip fella.

            • Spunjji
            • 4 years ago

            OP asked for anecdotal evidence, that’s what’s being supplied. Problem?

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Who said it was a problem? I just noted it was anecdote, not statistical information.

            That very user accused me of lying when supplying actual information and analysis, linked to.

      • _ppi
      • 4 years ago

      My personal upgrade was not exactly seamless (on 8-year old computer, mind you), but ultimately I am happy with the upgrade from Win7, though there is not some huge added value either.

      The upgrade process itself was smooth and after it ended, I even had some 15GB more on my SSD. But that one, 5-year old OCZ Vertex 2 was probably cause of later issues: Shortly after the upgrade, the universal apps stopped working (but others worked normally). Then I decided to do clean install and 2-3 days after the SSD bricked itself. I bought a new SSD and it works without issues.

    • Shouefref
    • 4 years ago

    Then, what do I have to do to make sure that my Windows 7 isn’t violated by Windows 10?
    Again MS tries to pry our right to free choice from between our fingers. It’s scandalous.
    Whatever they say, there is not guarantee at all that I won’t run into trouble with W10.
    There is always something that’s goes wrong, and I just don’t want that.
    I want to have the full right to remain using the OS I want to use, and it’s none of their business what I use.

      • TruthSerum
      • 4 years ago

      Watchout, SSK has you in his trolling sights now, you don’t “like” W10.

        • Shouefref
        • 4 years ago

        I’ve noticed. He’s an incredibly naive person.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          NAIVE BUT OH SO HANDSOME. AND POPULAR.

            • Shouefref
            • 4 years ago

            At least you will be popular with the TR staff, because your trolling pulls up their visit rates.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Crack is popular.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            SO’S WINDOWS 10
            #BURN #OUCH

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            At least you’ve made a valid comparison to crack in that regard.

            The first hit is free, for a limited time also.

            And you know what they call fanboys of that, right?

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            SWEET DUDES WITH TIGHT BODIES.

      • Whispre
      • 4 years ago

      All you have to do to stay on Windows 7 is decline the update. Simple, and there’s your free choice.

        • TruthSerum
        • 4 years ago

        I get that much. You saw the part about it being added to “recommended” updates though.
        People who have that on automatic will DL it. They still have to click through the “OK” button a couple of times as is sometimes the case with your average patch Tuesday updates, but…

          • Whispre
          • 4 years ago

          and if so, they have 30 days to roll it back.

          Also, I was responding to the question of freedom of choice… every single person who has a computer has made a choice to educate themselves about how they use their computer. Every person has the choice to auto download updates or not.

          Heck, people have a choice to use a different OS all together… Microsoft cannot take away your freedom of choice, they don’t have the power.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            “every single person who has a computer has made a choice to educate themselves about how they use their computer.”

            The W10 upgrade is being forced on users at some point also.

            Why you’d be against educating YOURSELF about the data W10 collects, I HAVE NO IDEA.

            [url<]https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/[/url<]

            • Whispre
            • 4 years ago

            Your assumption that I haven’t educated myself shows how you allow your paranoia to control your thoughts.

            I’ve read the full ToS, and I have 30 years of education including a masters degree in computing. A big part of my job is understanding and dealing with data privacy and protection. I’d guess I’m more versed on this topic than you are.

            Also, where does it say that W10 will be forced on people? Read the article again and this time don’t let your conspiracy theories impact your understanding.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            You pretended the source I linked to was invalid without reading it even.

            No, you’re clearly against me educating people here on the data W10 sends to M$ for them to sell as they wish to 3rd parties under their new agreement forced on longtime customers.

            You want to pretend all of this is ‘crazy’ to ‘make it go away’ in the discussion.

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            Here’s another.

            [url<]http://www.howtogeek.com/224616/30-ways-windows-10-phones-home/?PageSpeed=noscript[/url<] "This is just a conservative list, and isn’t complete. There are many other ways Windows 10 arguably phones home. Windows 10 includes apps for a variety of Microsoft services: Cortana, Bing, Outlook.com, OneDrive, Groove Music, MSN, and Xbox. Each of these services may have its own privacy policy and store data about you in a different place if you use them." "Microsoft could certainly do a better job of putting these options in a single place and better explaining them, though. They’re scattered not just across Windows 10’s interface, but across a variety of different Microsoft websites."

    • gmskking
    • 4 years ago

    Turns off Windows Updates.

      • TruthSerum
      • 4 years ago

      I always, always, always manually select each update and read the damn things.

      There’s no other way.

        • Shouefref
        • 4 years ago

        I don’t have time to manually check each update and read those bloody things. Not to mention it’s often technobabble.

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          You definitely have to parse some MS speak.

          But if you see an update that says “provides telemetry data” that’s a big hint.

          I don’t “have time” for that either, but I make time for it once a month on a Tuesday.

            • Shouefref
            • 4 years ago

            Thank you for that ‘provides telemetry data’.
            The ‘I don’t have time’ is actually the result of that kind of updates coming in when you’ve started your pc, and when do you start your pc? When you want to do something, of course, but not because you want to upgrade. It’s like you having a telephone, and suddenly people start phoning you to sell something or to ask to fill in a survey. It’s always at the wrong moment. Like pop up ad’s.

        • sweatshopking
        • 4 years ago

        HAHAH WINDOWS 10 DOESNT PROVIDE UPDATE DETAILS!

          • TruthSerum
          • 4 years ago

          You’re a low-information user apparently, you don’t want to know.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            ^

            • TruthSerum
            • 4 years ago

            It’s true, you run from the fact that they track users for marketing/sales data.

            You can’t admit it.

            [url<]https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/[/url<] Can you?

    • not@home
    • 4 years ago

    Noooooo, Windows 7 forever.

    • auxy
    • 4 years ago

    Does anyone outside MS think this is a good idea? Windows 10 is a great OS, but it’s really, REALLY flakey on upgrades (like all Windows versions forever have been.) Even if you select to “keep nothing”, and do a “clean” install, it still has issues. The only way I have seen so far to get a truly flawless Windows 10 install is to do a clean install on a clean disk.

    [sub<]Of course, you still have various other Windows 10 "issues", like the app store and Cortana, but that's a whole other topic. Hehe. ( *´艸`)[/sub<]

      • FireGryphon
      • 4 years ago

      What is that smiley?

        • dragontamer5788
        • 4 years ago

        Anime-style smiley. It is a guy with his eyes narrowed with both hands covering his hands. It is a laughing pose.

        Here’s a stock image of the face: [url<]http://www.viscoimages.com/photo/183573-Pretty-young-lady-covering-her-mouth-while-laughing.jpg[/url<]

          • Ninjitsu
          • 4 years ago

          I used to think those were two hands flipping the observer off. Thank, now I understand two of auxy’s emojis.

      • eofpi
      • 4 years ago

      Clearly, it’s a gambit to get people to get a broken upgrade, not be able to figure out how to roll back to 7/8.1, and give up and buy a new computer with a paid win10 license.

        • auxy
        • 4 years ago

        Not sure if serious… (; ゚Д゚)

          • eofpi
          • 4 years ago

          It was not intended to be entirely serious, but it will happen to some extent if MS actually does this.

        • DoomGuy64
        • 4 years ago

        I doubt that is an intended consequence, but nonetheless will still be a result. Tech support is going to have a field day handling all the support calls.

      • cygnus1
      • 4 years ago

      Upgraded and been fine on my formerly Win8 tablet…

    • terminalrecluse
    • 4 years ago

    pirates getting the option to buy directly from windows update sounds like a great way for producers of pirated windows isos to steal credit card info. Then again it’s not a problem MS has to think on because people shouldn’t be pirating their operating systems without understanding the risks.

      • albundy
      • 4 years ago

      or you could have a keylogger pre-installed as a service on the initial installation and it gets your credit card info that way.

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