Microsoft UWP update uncaps frame rates and turns on VRR

In a Windows 10 update that will be released "later today," Microsoft is finally adding support for uncapped framerates to apps on the Unified Windows Platform. This update also gives UWP titles support for Nvidia's G-Sync and AMD's FreeSync technologies.

Until today, UWP games were required to use vertical sync, so these two changes are a welcome relief for titles like Gears of War Ultimate Edition. That game was fraught with technical issues when it launched in March, and UWP's limitations did it no favors. The v-sync requirement was a major hurdle for racing fans frustrated with Forza Motorsport 6: Apex, too.

Microsoft does caution that its update alone won't turn on these features in UWP titles. It appears game developers will need to add the necessary switches to turn on these features in their games, too. Redmond does say that Forza Motorsport 6 and Gears of War Ultimate Edition should get support for these features "in the very near future," though.

It's been a rough road for serious gaming on the Unified Windows Platform. Enthusiasts first noted significant issues with gaming on the platform early in March. Not long after, Epic Games' Tim Sweeney made a blistering critique of UWP and Microsoft's attitude toward it. Microsoft's lukewarm response prompted the Unreal creator to lay out his ideas for improving the platform. Today's update is a big step toward parity with the older Win32 API for gaming performance, but there's still a lot of ground to cover.

Comments closed
    • Kaleid
    • 4 years ago

    Deserves to be posted again

    For the last decade they have been promising the same thing every year.

    [url<]http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=88868188#post88868188[/url<] "For people getting their hopes up. This is MS's various statements on their promise to PC gaming. 2005 - We care about PC gaming, Longhorn (Vista) to usher in modern PC gaming with "Tray and Play" Vista launches with none of the stuff MS promised, Vista itself sucks the ass of a thousand camels. 2006 - MS: Don't Count PC Games Out MS announces GFWL and how utterly amazing it will be, suckers everywhere rejoice in the eventual ass reaming they don't know is coming yet. 2007 - MS continues PC push MS launches GFWL...and it has a $50 a year fee, and they announce a whole slew of games to include Shadowrun with cross platform play and Gears of War 1! What are you paying for you ask? Jank ass software that crashes and has the most unintuitive updating system known to man. Load a game, game says you need update. Signs you out, downloads update, you jump back in...oh GFWL client has a update too! signs you out, downloads up date and you log back in... MS will shortly thereafter disband Ensemble because MS feels that they're (MS) moving in a different direction! But don't worry we tots <3 you PC gamers. 2008 - MS: PC gaming is A-okay Yea we've looked at some money pie charts and can see that PC gaming brings in billions in revenue. Here is our open letter to how awesome PC gaming is and our promise to support it! We finally put some new titles up on GFWL! Oh and we got rid of the $50 a year fee for GFWL, see we're serious about PC gaming! If that's not a sign of commitment, I don't know what is! 2008 - MS: PC gaming is not dead! Look at this event we're throwing for PC gaming, you think we'd throw this if we didn't truly care about it?! Look at these games that will be on GFWL. We <3 PC gaming. You want fixes for GFWL issues? We'll look into that. 2008 - MS bolsters PC gaming with all new Games for Windows Live! Hey gaiz remember those GFWL client issues you were having...well we didn't fix those per say but....here is the same **** in a slightly newer skin! PROGRESS 2009 - MS: PC gaming still a priority for us! Okay gaiz look, this time we're serious about our upcoming push in PC gaming. It's so vital to us at MS that we give the PC our love and support! 2010 - MS: "We're doubling down on PC gaming By doubling down we mean we're keeping this **** GFWL client around because! We might even throw an update at it to fix the problem of game saves being randomly deleted or rendered worthless...maybe. 2010 - MS Launches Games for Windows Marketplace Hey gaiz, we're making GFWL even better because it's now called Games for Windows Marketplace. Everything is brand new and easy to use, anonymous journalists have even said it's better than Steam. We had 3 interns and a janitor work on this, so you know we're committed! 2010 - MS: Windows 8 is going to relaunch gaming! Hey gaiz, MS again. With Windows 8 we're totally going to put our full weight behind PC gaming just like we promised back in 2006! Pls be excite. 2012 - MS: We won't ditch GFWL! We're committed to PC gaming and we absolutely think GFWL is the best play to get PC games and play with others. Our client is awesome....ly bloated and deletes **** randomly, but that's really one of the charms of PC gaming that we captured! It's a balanced experience! Hope you rike! 2013 - MS to discontinue GFWL Hey gaiz new manager here, so like a bunch of your games might stop working come 2014...but that's okay! We expect there to be transitions as we build out new investments, but we remain committed to bringing first party gaming services and games to Windows for years to come. We will share more details in the future! 2013 - MS promises core first party games coming to PC We're so committed we swear! Sorry, but all MS is doing is blowing smoke up the ass of gullible people. So yea go ahead and get your hopes up and get excited. In a year or two when none of what they say comes to fruition...I'll pretend to act shocked. "

      • LostCat
      • 4 years ago

      wrt the 2013 item – Quantum Break, Forza 6 Apex, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Gears of War: Ultimate Edition and Killer Instinct have been published to PC and many more coming…so I guess you’re shocked.

        • Kaleid
        • 4 years ago

        Not at all, it’s still half-arsed effort.

          • BurntMyBacon
          • 4 years ago

          I’m surprised that getting to one of their line items at all didn’t shock the **** out of you.

          Doesn’t mean it will necessarily be good, but you posted an awful lot of Microsoft doing slightly less than nothing to appease you. I was a little worried that a list of more than two regardless of quality might make your heart go arrhythmic.

    • Axiomatic
    • 4 years ago

    Microsoft has the same problem that Origin and UPlay and <insert you game launcher here> have. NONE of them even try to EXCEED that status quot of Steam. It’s not good enough to just achieve parity with Steam, if you do, congratulations, you’re #2. You must meet and exceed the functionality of Steam or you will remain an “also ran.”

    • Ninjitsu
    • 4 years ago

    Store doesn’t seem too popular with the gaming folks:
    [url<]https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/05/11/windows-10-uwp-gsync-freesync-uncapped-framerates/#comments[/url<]

    • sweatshopking
    • 4 years ago

    that took long: [url<]http://mspoweruser.com/gears-war-updated-windows-10/[/url<]

    • Kretschmer
    • 4 years ago

    If UWP captured the market, would any of you be worried about software/platform stagnation? I.e. future new features would have to be rolled into UWP for use, and Microsoft isn’t very responsive or forward-looking. If VRR was a brand new concept instead of an established feature, how long would it take for UWP adoption?

    As a PC enthusiast, I’m not really the target market for UWP games: my gaming is done on one platform, I never tussle with malware, et cetera. There is quite a bit of promise in UWP (even for gaming), but Microsoft will have to execute and sustain at a previously-unseen level for the platform to rival Steam. Unfortunately, Microsoft has a terrible record when entering markets that are already dominated by a competent competitor…

    • bfar
    • 4 years ago

    This is welcome news, but it’s very telling that the framework was allowed to launch without arguably ubiquitous features. It speaks volumes about whether Microsoft really understands the market it’s trying to attract.

    Jeremy Laird over at rockpapershotgun recently described PC gaming as “an intellectual construct – an attitude to games design and playing games”. I think he nails in a sentence what Microsoft and indeed many of the largest publishers in the gaming industry fail to consistently recognize and exploit. They should be capturing and catering for that “attitude” to gaming that sets the PC gaming community apart from other platforms. It simply cannot be converted to a closed platform.

    • vargis14
    • 4 years ago

    I still do not understand why we have no PC sports games like Hockey Madden football etc…..for gods sake if the Xbone can run it made by MS why can’t windows emulate a xbox one???? or just port it to us PC users.

    Better yet let the Xbox one run windows also…pretty dang positive it can.

    EDIT: do not own a XB1

    • yogibbear
    • 4 years ago

    Took them long enough. Should have LAUNCHED with this already. Buffoons.

      • rxc6
      • 4 years ago

      Yeah!!! Let’s complain when fixes come in! That will show them!!!! /s

        • sweatshopking
        • 4 years ago

        lolirl

      • _ppi
      • 4 years ago

      What most likely happened when they launched UWP, they clearly forgot that borderless windows might not support unlocked framerate and VRR. It might not have been at all visible with all Windows store games tuned to mobile devices, that will not stress PCs much, probably even considering integrated GPUs.

      So I am glad they fixed it relatively quickly.

      Now getting around sandboxing for mods, savegames and overlays is probably more tricky, but I am sure they can develop some API that would allow it without breaking UWP’s advantages.

    • Chrispy_
    • 4 years ago

    So what does UWP bring to the table that could possibly convince a Steam user to buy outside of Steam?

    Microsoft’s track record towards the gaming community is somewhere between “outrageously bad” and “double-facepalms all around”. Trusting Microsoft to not screw over gamers is like trusting a multiple-fellony pedophile to run an after-hours kindergarten. Most of us know far, far better than to do anything other than steer well clear.

      • LostCat
      • 4 years ago

      No need to install runtimes, services, or third party clients to play a game for starters. Other than that, its technological improvements over win32 as I understand them are mostly in memory management.

        • auxy
        • 4 years ago

        The only reason you don’t need to install a client is because it’s built into the operating system. I guess that’s somehow an advantage for the user? Not that Steam is a large program or that installing it is some kind of problem. I don’t even install Steam; haven’t for many years now. I just run the same copy I’ve had from the drive it’s on. ┐( ̄ヮ ̄)┌

        By the way, you still have to have any required libraries installed, Windows will just do it silently for you now.

          • LostCat
          • 4 years ago

          At which time Steam will install itself since it requires a service.

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            [url<]http://i.imgur.com/WWmofJz.png[/url<] Steam service? What Steam service? Nice try tho. (´・ω・`)

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            you’re really going to nitpick about the unimportant difference between “background process” and “service”?
            His point is accurate. Steam runs in the background.

            • BobbinThreadbare
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<]His point is accurate. Steam runs in the background.[/quote<] This isn't a point though. It's like saying Win10 has dozens of services that run in the background.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            His original point is that it’s built in and easy to access. Which is true. Any gaming pc isn’t going to die from the background process of steam.

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            No, it doesn’t. If you right-click the icon and hit ‘exit’, it closes.

            • LostCat
            • 4 years ago

            Probably the one I’ve seen on every machine I’ve ever ran Steam on.
            [url<]https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=395DE756A3005D2F!368338&authkey=!AMkRHUG7Pv9GiO0&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng[/url<]

      • sweatshopking
      • 4 years ago

      buy once play anywhere – hololens, phone, xbone, pc, iot. cross platform saving with xbone. improved streaming, and streaming to and from phones for games. and then the technical improvements as well.

        • auxy
        • 4 years ago

        So wait, “buy once play anywhere – [pc], [phone nobody has], [game console nobody has or wants], pc, [vaguely defined category nobody has].”

        You’re such a ridiculous fanboy SSK. You make the most die-hard Apple fans look sane. How much do they pay you for this shilling? (*´∀`*)

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          you just quoted that 20 million people had xbones. that’s nobody? there are 300,000,000 windows 10 pc’s. There are roughly 100,000,000 sold windows phones, though compared to android and iphones, it’s not that many.

          call me what you want, but when you constantly ignore positives because, let’s be honest with your real problem with it, your ideology of what computing should be and how other people should use them the same way you do, we are going to disagree.

          My wife isn’t going to install steam. Millions will. My mother isn’t. My grandmother isn’t either. But all of them get games from the windows 10 UWP store, and like the way they install, uninstall, and update.

          Too be honest, I expect the UWP program won’t be terribly successful, but that’s not because it isn’t an improvement, rather it’s because people ask questions of those who they think are computer savvy, and you (and many other people on this site) are terribly biased against the much needed progress. Security, ease of use, and financials are all improved by this system, but you’ll rally against it, because steam. it’s ridiculous. Steam BADLY needs a real competitor, and you’ll fight against it because of a skewed value system.

          I don’t understand you, auxy. There are loads of people who prefer a single, built in, secure, easy to use, app platform. It’s what made the iphone so popular. I don’t get why you think other people should only use computers the same way you do.

            • cygnus1
            • 4 years ago

            congrats on a coherent, thoughtful, non caps lock post 😉

            but seriously, totally agree with everything you said there

            • Liron
            • 4 years ago

            I think you can find a middle ground. Microsoft consoles and devices are certainly not nonexistent, but they are certainly not what common people have in mind when they hear the concept of “buy once play anywhere.”

            And your wife and grandma certainly could install Steam. Not intentionally, maybe, but if you buy a game on Amazon, you download it and run it and it will say, “This is a Steam game, we will now proceed to install Steam for you, OK?” ..and puf!, it’s done.

            And while I wholeheartedly embrace competitors like Greenman, GOG, D2D, Playfire, etc., stores that are backed by someone who has an unfair advantage are not really fair competitors. That is if a competitor is a major game publisher, then the competition doesn’t benefit the customer. EA, for example, can make the game exclusive to their store and then they don’t have to compete in price with Steam. Same with the owners of the platform that Steam runs on. Those are not competitors, those are called Trusts and they have always had negative effects for the consumers.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            My grandmother or mother aren’t going to go to amazon for a game. they don’t know what amazon is.
            I’m not sure what MS has as an unfair advantage. A dying platform?

            • chuckula
            • 4 years ago

            Duh, the Amazon is a river in South America. You sit at the mouth and wait for the games to be carried downstream into your net!

            Don’t they teach geography in Canadia?!?!

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Not really much geography taught in Canada. I’m currently finishing human geography in university, but mostly, like the USA, geography in canada is “know the provinces and capitals!!!!!” Mostly useless. Most Canadians don’t even know which continent Afghanistan, where we have been at war for like 1000 years, is. Canadians love to make fun of ,Americans but we are just as dumb and disconnected.

            • yogibbear
            • 4 years ago

            Is human geography like some made up fake geography because having to call it “human geography” makes it sound like it’s actually “not geography”. Some sort of aerie farie we’ll ignore actual historical records and just make up our own shit version of events.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            It’s a study of why people are where they are and the impacts they have on the geography around them. Studies of globalization, agriculture, urban form, etc.
            examines the way culture, politics, economics, and geography impact each other

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            [quote=”sweatshopking”<]I don't get why you think other people should only use computers the way you do.[/quote<]Putting aside for a moment that the way I use computers is very clearly the best way to use computers (with a minimum of annoyance and maximum performance), there's more to it. There's a resistance to harmful ideology. Microsoft has the mindset that the user is endangered, so they must be protected. I don't agree with this. It is the user's responsibility to protect themselves. I believe this is true in any circumstance, whether computer security or personal security. Relying on someone else to keep you safe means you are not only unsafe but also have the illusion of security, which makes you unaware and less able or unable to protect yourself. Microsoft's stance is analogous to the so-called "nanny state". They do so much in the name of protecting the user that it ultimately drastically harms the functionality of their software and it makes Windows a real pain to use. This is true not only for a power user like me but also for regular users. UAC has done more than anything else to make users vulnerable to malware because they've become so desensitized and jaded by endless "allow" prompts that they will simply click yes on anything to make it go away so they can keep doing what they're doing. It's terrible design and you'll notice other operating systems don't do it. This "it's for your safety!" point of view has gone so far it's wrapped all the way around from benign stupidity into malign ignorance. What I mean by that is that users who don't know any better are being taken advantage of by Microsoft not only in the form of data-mining but also as beta testers for technologies that are ill-advised in the first place. (Notice today's Windows Preview update removes the ridiculous Wi-Fi Sense feature.) I'm not the short-sighted enthusiast you think I am and I'm not some neckbearded Linux advocate like Kretschmer thinks. I know what I'm talking about. Microsoft is in the wrong with the Windows Store and UWP and Windows 10. The duty of an operating system is to serve the user, not to serve the creator. I realize that there's a lot of FUD out there about how Win32 installers have full controls to modify the operating system, but that's the nature of the beast. Trying to change it is a paradigm shift that only Microsoft and Big Media wants, as it's all in the name of removing control from the user. I know you've talked before about how Microsoft is in a bad spot right now -- "how do you expect them to make money? on their free operating system?" -- but ultimately I think these steps they are taking are going to do more harm than good, and if they really do intend to transition Windows to SaaS model... well, it's really going to be the year of the Linux desktop.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<] There's a resistance to harmful ideology. [/quote<] this is entirely subjective, and certainly a minority view. The vast majority of people are fine paying taxes so that police forces and militaries exist. You rely on it constantly, you just rail against it because you're confused. There is literally no situation in your life you've ever not had your safety based on others. Not unless you've made a trip to somalia. Pretending an app store is analogous to the "so-called nanny state" is ridiculous. It makes literally no sense, and is just a projection of your views on GG and your hate of every kind of authority. Your view is literally a [i<] fantasy [/i<] Early forced v-sync does not equal "drastically harming the functionality". And it's ongoing and patched. The UWP system is not mandatory. It makes absolutely nothing for you "a real pain to use". You can continue to use steam, origin, etc. Your criticism of UAC is a) uncited b)incorrect. Are you suggesting that applications installing in the background with [i<] absolutely no prompt or information to end users at all [/i<] was superior?! Some people certainly do just click allow. that doesn't mean it's anything like what you're pretending. *nix systems prompt for a password CONSTANTLY. For windows users, that was deemed too difficult. I am not saying UAC is perfect. I am saying you're fundamentally wrong. ALL operating system do it. your problems with less technologically educated people who don't invest literally thousands of hours into computing are non-sensical. You have no right, nor justification for telling them how to compute, and those people (99% of the market) don't want to deal with the problems of managing a traditional operating system. Not sure if you've heard of iOS, but it has become an enormous powerhouse because of its reliability and ease of use. Those people aren't wrong. They're just different than you, and they're leading the mobile first push which the industry is heading to. You views on privacy are something we can agree on, except you specifically target Microsoft, a company with far better privacy than android or google, but you're cool with those. I take privacy seriously and the famous quote [i<] What Orwell failed to predict was that we'd buy the cameras ourselves, and that our biggest fear would be that nobody was watching." -Keith Jensen [/i<] is paramount today. We can agree on privacy, but your hypocrisy is problematic. Either it's right or wrong. Wifi sense was excellent, and I used it all the time. People come over and don't need a wifi password for my router, it just works. that's handy as hell, and while not much used, was a useful improvement. you [i<] think [/i<] you know what you're talking about. Don't we all. I have no ownership of microsoft stock, or any other tech company. I do, however, like things that make my life easier, and UWP certainly does that. Makes my free and constant tech support for my extended family and friends WAYYYY easier. Linux isn't the year of the desktop ever. Desktops are dead, and everyone knows that. Why do you think microsoft is putting so much energy into continuum and their largely dead "windows on small screens" technology? You don't like it, and obviously it'll take years, but the industry is changing. Pretending it isn't, as you're doing, is just what got ballmer into the mess MS is in now.

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            What the hell are you even talking about? “Paying taxes”? Why are you going on about things NOBODY was talking about?

            You’re making a lot of assumptions about me that are false (assuming I’m some kind of die-hard Libertarian, that I approve of Apple and Google’s user monitoring, that I want to tell anyone how to compute, that I “hate every kind of authority”) and misrepresenting my arguments. If you can’t even keep things honest there’s no reason to continue this conversation.

            Calling me a hypocrite when you are the only one being hypocritical (MS is in a mess because they didn’t change enough? what?) is ridiculous.

            And by the way, no, “ALL” operating systems do not prompt for elevation. Did you forget Windows XP? DOS? Have you really never used Android or iOS?

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<] Microsoft has the mindset that the user is endangered, so they must be protected. I don't agree with this. It is the user's responsibility to protect themselves. I believe this is true in any circumstance, whether computer security or personal security. Relying on someone else to keep you safe means you are not only unsafe but also have the illusion of security, which makes you unaware and less able or unable to protect yourself. [/quote<] Same stuff you've written 10000 times when i said GG was stupid. If you wanted me to pretend we've never discussed before, or that you didn't talk about personal security, you should have said that before. MS is in a mess because they didn't change enough. They lost mobile, and are now dealing with falling revenue. If you've missed that then you've missed the last 8 years. You suggesting dos is a relevant operating system from a security standpoint? really, auxy, this kind of stuff is dumb and a waste of your time to type. Stock android and iOS both prompt for a password before installing apps. it can, like UAC, be disabled, just like it can on the windows 10 store (on the windows 10 store it's under "streamline my purchase experience") How many times can you pretend you "destroy RDF's" when you just say "you don't get it, i'm done with this" when your points are challenged?

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            More misrepresenting my arguments, misrepresenting me, and moving the goalposts. How do you sleep at night? Either way, I’m content with knowing that YOU know you’re a crappy person who can’t even debate honestly. ┐( ̄ヮ ̄)┌

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Running away again? Gosh you must have strong legs by now.

            Nothing i said was misrepresented. you’re patently [i<] wrong [/i<] and can't deal with it.

            • tsk
            • 4 years ago

            I think you are correct, if it’s easier, and “just works” it will prevail.
            Desktops and full x86 operating systems is slowly becoming a niche.

      • biffzinker
      • 4 years ago

      [quote=”Chrispy”<]Microsoft's track record towards the gaming community is somewhere between "outrageously bad" and "double-facepalms all around".[/quote<] Of course the same can be said of the big publishers examples being EA, and Ubisoft in place of Microsoft.

        • Airmantharp
        • 4 years ago

        You can hate EA and Ubi, they deserve it- and I have first-hand experience to back that up.

        They’re still worlds better than anything MS has done on the PC other than get out of the way.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          people still upset about games for windows live? really?

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            Yes, really. I bought Bioshock on that service and I can no longer download or play it. That’s a real detriment. GFWL also screwed up another one of my favorite games on PC, Lost Planet 2. CAPCOM bet heavily on GFWL and got burned. We’re lucky they’re even still making PC games. At least From Software updated Dark Souls with Steamworks support.

          • kruky
          • 4 years ago

          if not for MS we would be playing on macs so they did save us from fate worse then death.

          • BurntMyBacon
          • 4 years ago

          [quote<]They're still worlds better than anything MS has done on the PC other than get out of the way.[/quote<] To be fair, they did give us DirectX. Seems to be pretty popular in some small niche groups like [b<]THE VAST MAJORITY OF PC GAME DEVELOPERS[/b<]. But, perhaps their strengths are more in development than distribution. ;')

      • BurntMyBacon
      • 4 years ago

      [quote<]Microsoft's track record towards the gaming community is somewhere between "outrageously bad" and "double-facepalms all around".[/quote<] They're not [b<]that[/b<] bad. They did give us ... ....... ............. ... hmmm, ........ .......... .... Oh, would you look at the time.

    • odizzido
    • 4 years ago

    Wow I remember reading about this ages ago. How could it have been left unfixed for so long?

      • Redocbew
      • 4 years ago

      Capping the frame rate makes the game “more cinematic”, right?

        • biffzinker
        • 4 years ago

        Correction, 23.976 frames/s makes the game “more cinematic.”

      • Klimax
      • 4 years ago

      Fix was likely ready for some time, but testing is often major time-sink. Also the way Microsoft stages changes into Windows source, time between fix being written and pushed into trunk can be nontrivial. (See [url<]https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20130820-00/?p=3453/[/url<] although things might have changed somewhat since then)

    • JosiahBradley
    • 4 years ago

    We are now excited about adding features back in that were just a result of being part of a game engine before? A game engine renders frames and if the hardware takes (X)ms to render than you can figure out how many frames you get and that is physics. Why does a platform artificially limit what was once physics?????

      • derFunkenstein
      • 4 years ago

      Because we are abstracting farther and farther away from the hardware. For everything that DX12 supposedly does to get “closer to the metal”, lots of other decisions (particularly UWP) are more sandboxed and more abstracted. This has been the goal of platform providers and developers alike. It makes things more secure and easier to do. It also means starting from scratch every so often so features that folks expect don’t get rolled back in.

    • Sargent Duck
    • 4 years ago

    Thanks Microsoft, but I’ll just keep buying all my games on Steam.

      • sweatshopking
      • 4 years ago

      not an xbone owner? buying once on pc and owning on xbone, plus with saves transferring (as was done with quantum break) not appealing?

        • Concupiscence
        • 4 years ago

        > not an xbone owner?

        God no, the news cycle surrounding that console’s been tumultuous since before release and it’s an also-ran compared to the PS4.

        > buying once on pc and owning on xbone, plus with saves transferring (as was done with quantum break) not appealing?

        Not to me, thank you.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          While it might not be something you’ve purchased, literally 10’s of millions have, including a great number of people here.

            • Concupiscence
            • 4 years ago

            That’s fine. I’d like for Steam to have competition, but I sure as hell don’t want Microsoft to build out its tacky walled garden to hem users into a big, janky platform that doesn’t play nice with anything else.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Except it does play well with everything else.

            • rxc6
            • 4 years ago

            You’d like competition but will keep buying from steam? That doesn’t make sense. If you want competition, you should reward the company that is doing things better, like GOG. I used to love steam for its sales, but their support is crap. Also the client has always had a terrible interface.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            GOG is a far better place to shop than steam.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 4 years ago

            Steam has local pricing now, so it’s much cheaper in some cases…I’ve stopped considering GoG since.

            • BurntMyBacon
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<]GOG is a far better place to shop than steam.[/quote<] Only if you care about DRM-free content, older titles that prioritized the story/game play over graphics, and/or like consistently decent pricing rather than lurching from sale to sale, ... , ... , You know what, you're not wrong. Note: Yes, I know you can get some older games on steam and the pricing is better than most other places, but on steam they have a fire sale of something or another every week, so pricing ends up being a roller coaster.

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            I don’t disagree that the Steam client is flawed, but it’s still better than GOG’s site or really anyone else’s storefront. Web-based storefronts have always been and will always be garbage. That’s really the one thing that the Windows Store almost does right, except the touch-optimized interface is so awkward to use on an actual computer…

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            GOG has galaxy….

            have you used the store front on windows on a desktop? you know it’s different than on a tablet…

            • BurntMyBacon
            • 4 years ago

            I do like the steam client better than any of their competition. That said, GOG galaxy has been steadily improving and I no longer have the issues I once had. I don’t really think a client is strictly necessary to play a game, but I can see the appeal in having a centralized location for all your games with easy access to install, update, and organize your games, get and apply mods, etc.. Steam does these well. GOG galaxy is still improving, but does well enough and has a huge advantage with lack of invasive DRM. Thus far, Microsoft doesn’t really offer enough for me to forgo individual game installs (not that this is much of an option anymore) other than lack of CD.

            • Concupiscence
            • 4 years ago

            I use GOG Galaxy and Steam, I used to use Desura, and I keep my eyes open for new alternatives. But from past experiences going back 20 years, I trust Microsoft about as far as I could throw Steve Ballmer.

            • BurntMyBacon
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<]You'd like competition but will keep buying from steam?[/quote<] He never said he bought from steam exclusively. The was the OP. At risk of putting words in his mouth, I'd wager that he'd be just fine with having Microsoft around, so long as they don't hinder his ability to get games from the distributor of his choice. He just won't be buying from them. He'll let others that don't have his reservations with Microsoft buy from them. It still gets him the price lowering / service improving competition he desires.

        • HisDivineOrder
        • 4 years ago

        You keep saying that, but I don’t remember anyone that owns the UWP version of Rise of the Tomb Raider getting a free copy on Xbox One. I happened to get Gears of War Ultimate Edition for my Xbox One. Where’s my UWP version?

        Just because a thing may happen sometimes does not make it something you trot out as though it’s “universal” and a given for all games.

        It happens for a select few. Plus, your much vaunted love of save games being shared between games made it so people who started Quantum Break on Xbox One and tried to continue from PC watched as their save games were wiped.

        Repeatedly.

        Way to sell your own feature, Microsoft.

          • auxy
          • 4 years ago

          Nevermind that Steam has had SteamPlay for Windows, OSX, and Linux for ages and ages. Buy it once on Steam, play it on any valid platform. Noooot a revolutionary concept.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          Not sure if you’re aware that it’s just starting to be rolled out. the universal store isn’t even part of xbone yet, and is coming. Quantum break was done through shared keys, rather than the upcoming universal store.
          you’re right it’s dependant on approval from publishers.
          you’re also right there are bleeding edge bugs, just like with steam cloud. I lost a number of games when that rolled out.

          I am also waiting for minecraft to follow the buy once play everywhere…

          That all being said, if implemented there are significant advantages to something like steam.

            • HisDivineOrder
            • 4 years ago

            Hm. My understanding is that the “Universal store” being part of Xbox One is about bringing apps–specifically called out as “not games”–to the console. Games aren’t part of the UWP apps to Xbox One storyline.

            I don’t think Microsoft ever intends purchases on Xbox One to be instant purchases for PC in terms of games. I think Quantum Break and Killer Instinct were exceptions to the rule to make people believe they would.

            Apps will probably be different because of how badly they’re getting clobbered in the market. Games, though, for Xbox are different and not being called “apps” by Microsoft.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            It’s both, but it’s up to the publishers. They do plan for xbone purchases to be instant puchases, and they’ve committed to all future microsoft games to be released on both. we’ll have to see how it rolls out though.

        • auxy
        • 4 years ago

        No. No, it isn’t. Below you said “tens of millions” of people have Xbox Ones (it just recently hit 20 million.) Steam has had ten million concurrent players!

        Steam has a monthly volume of over 120 million active users, three times Microsoft’s Xbox Live service. Steam has a better selection of games, with better prices, less technical limits, and no need to sell your soul to Microsoft. You can modify and toy with the game at your leisure, while UWP doesn’t even expose the .exe file for you to launch it with another program, or set launch options! (・へ・)

        There is no advantage to the user for UWP, only to Microsoft. It’s crap, dude.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          If you’re point is lots of people have steam. cool. how many people have steam pc’s in their livingroom? like 1,000,000? Probably not even that many.

          idc if i have an exe. that’s pointless, and confusing to most end users. You’re a power user, and not even that, you’re a particularly whiny (not a dig, just reality) power user who likes specific things AND NEVER WANTS IT TO CHANGE.

          there are many advantages. you just ignore them and focus on the issues you have.

            • Deanjo
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<]how many people have steam pc's in their livingroom? [/quote<] Of course they can use one of inexpensive steam extenders. [quote<]there are many advantages.[/quote<] Can you use it on anything that is not Windows based like you can with Steam? Is your library easily shared with friends and family? Are the many game sales out there that sell a steam key also available for UWP?

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Share with 10 computers, i have 9 people using my minecraft for windows 10 and as you know, it is windows only. Quite a bit more sharing than steam allows. Certainly FAR more bones sold than steam links. For linux users, just like the apple store and every console, it isn’t relevant.

            • Deanjo
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<]For linux users, just like the apple store and every console, it isn't relevant.[/quote<] Oh but it is very relevant, it doesn't matter if me or my friends use a Mac or Linux or Windows (and covers a hell of a lot more versions of those OS's). It also doesn't matter if the set top box they are using for streaming is a Steam extender, a NVidia set top box, android or iOS/TVOS box. And of course there is the pure cost factor. Seems to me that UWP is extremely limiting and costly when you look at it logically.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            You’re right you can’t share games across pc operating systems, and you can with steam. That’s fair.
            The rest isn’t. For gaming, you’re going to find far more people with windows 10 pc and xbones than you will gaming on linux or osx.
            As for streaming, I don’t have any experience streaming games to an nvidia/io/or android box. I’ve only ever used an xbone, and so i’m really in no position to comment on that, nor am i familiar with sales numbers. I think it’s fair to say that there is a significant market share, and for 10’s of millions of xbone users, and hundreds of millions of windows 10 users, not limiting at all. As for cost, buy once and play on multiple devices helps reduce that cost. So does the fact that windows 10 is free, so for pc’s there is no upgrade fee. You also can’t compare an apple tv with an xbone in terms of gaming capabilities. one is a device barely capable of 1080p mp4, the other is a next generation console, even if the gpu power is less than us PC guys would like.

            • Deanjo
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<]The rest isn't. For gaming, you're going to find far more people with windows 10 pc and xbones than you will gaming on linux or osx. [/quote<] Is the amount of users that have a gaming PC and an XBone greater than Windows 7/8 PC's, linux, OS X? Not even close. The amount of XBone gamersand have a gaming pc is a very small subset of XBone users. You are talking about an extremely small subset of the ~20% marketshare that Windows 10 has. [quote<]You also can't compare an apple tv with an xbone in terms of gaming capabilities. one is a device barely capable of 1080p mp4, the other is a next generation console, even if the gpu power is less than us PC guys would like.[/quote<] You are quite wrong about the AppleTV barley able to do 1080p mp4, it does that extremely easily, it even has enough chops to do a full bit rate bluray will all the advanced audio glory without even using the video decoder (see MrMC). The XBONE on the other hand has a hard time doing most games @ 1080p (native is 900P IIRC). Meanwhile I can play the most demanding games @ a full 1080P streaming to my AppleTV 4, my ancient laptop, my Mac if there is no native port, any linux machine or even a device like a stick computer. Even though it is required for me to sideload the app to do so on the AppleTV4, it is still an option. Sideloading something on the xbone however is not. UWP maybe a good [u<]supplimental[/u<] option for the small subset of XBONE/Windows 10 gamer PC's but is a far far far ways from matching the marketshare that steam can reach.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Osx, windows 8, and mac os ( isn’t that the new old name now?) are currently larger together, but windows 10 is the number one choice for gamers, as steams surveys show. It’s early days still. I’d honestly expect more xbone/pc gamers to exist than linux gamers.

            • Deanjo
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<]windows 10 is the number one choice for gamers, as steams surveys show[/quote<] Actually it shows that Windows 10 covers 40% of users, that still leaves 60% out of contention using UWP and if those do not have a Xbone, it really doesn't bring anything extra to the table for them except an extremely restricted ecosystem.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            dx12, improved performance, additional shopping choices….

            also, 40% of the store is the largest chunk, MAKING MY POINT IT’S THE NUMBER ONE CHOICE CORRECT.

            • Deanjo
            • 4 years ago

            No, it is not the largest chunk, the largest chunk is other non-Windows 10 OS’s. And again, it offers nothing over Steam other than allowing, on titles that the developer allows, to also run on an Xbone. So to take advantage of it you have to:

            a) have a Windows 10 gaming PC
            b) own an Xbone,
            c) have an XBone port even available
            d) have the developer allow the title’s Xbone and PC version to be used on the same purchase.

            That marketshare, is probably hovering around the same number of Mac OS X users and nowhere close to the number of non-Win 10 systems in use on steam.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            omg. if i give 10 people the choice between vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry ice cream, and 4 choose chocolate, 3 choose vanilla, and 3 choose strawberry, then the top choice is chocolate, not “not chocolate”. you’re a 50 year old man. you shouldn’t need me to explain it to you.

            It might be a similar marketshare. that doesn’t mean it has no advantage.

            • Deanjo
            • 4 years ago

            No it is not, the top choice is “not chocolate” or “other” when you are looking at the entire market.

            60% of the steam market does not run Windows 10.
            5% of the steam market has a DX 12 card and Windows 10 (and the majority of those cards are mid range or IGP)
            <1% of titles are DX12

            That “huge” market that you think UWP can offer advantages to is an extremely small market. Far smaller than what steam offers.

            • Andrew Lauritzen
            • 4 years ago

            Uhh… Steam’s #s have 33% with DX12 GPU + Win10 and an additional 37% with DX12 GPU but pre-Win10.

            Not sure where your 5% number comes from… I think you’re misreading the detailed GPU statistics.

            • Deanjo
            • 4 years ago

            You best go back and read the stats titled “DIRECTX 12 SYSTEMS (WIN10 WITH DX 12 GPU)”

            NOT EVEN CLOSE TO 33%!!!

            [url<]http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/[/url<] Largest share is 3.23% on the 970

            • Andrew Lauritzen
            • 4 years ago

            Right – you are reading that stat wrong. That is saying that 3.23% of DX12 systems use a 970. Expand that list and it’s more obvious. The stats for % of systems that are DX9/10/11/12 are at the top of the page in the graph.

            • BurntMyBacon
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<]omg. if i give 10 people the choice between vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry ice cream, and 4 choose chocolate, 3 choose vanilla, and 3 choose strawberry, then the top choice is chocolate, not "not chocolate".[/quote<] Not to take away form your point about Win10 market share being significant, but you are comparing a mutually exclusive scenario to a non-mutually exclusive scenario. Games on steam can be played on multiple supported versions of windows Win Vista / 7 / 8 / 8.1 / 10 (we'll set aside non-Microsoft OSes for the purposes of this discussion). Of the gamers that play steam games, only 40% play on Windows 10. To make your analogy slightly more accurate, I'd change it to: if i give 10 people the choice between vanilla, chocolate, strawberry and orange ice cream, and 4 choose chocolate [b<]and[/b<] vanilla, 3 choose strawberry [b<]and[/b<] vanilla, and 3 choose orange [b<]and[/b<] vanilla, then the top choice is not in fact chocolate. It's vanilla. Chocolate, while being the largest subset, and thus notable, doesn't even make up the majority of vanilla eaters and is by definition still the minority. Likewise, Windows 10, while being the largest subset of steam users, which shouldn't be dismissed lightly, is still the minority of steam users. That said, this situation ceases to be true in 10%.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 4 years ago

            Windows 10 and 7 are effectively tied at the moment.

            EDIT: I also don’t know anyone with an Xbone (but maybe two people with a PS4).

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            you’re in india though. IDK how xbone sales are there, but they’re better in Canada. PS4 has sold more though, without a doubt.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 4 years ago

            Of course, but you have to look at the whole picture, not just North America. Finally what MS does or doesn’t affects people (and MS) in both developed and developing nations.

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            I brought up Steam because Sargent Ducks’ original post was about Steam… (゚∀゚)

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            maybe, but you still haven’t addressed the rest of my point.

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            I addressed every point you’ve made so far. If there’s something else you’d like addressed please let me know! I always enjoy destroying RDFs.

            • BurntMyBacon
            • 4 years ago

            [quote<]I always enjoy destroying RDFs.[/quote<] Here I thought the NUKE FORM ORBIT option was the only way to do that, but apparently in some cases, if you use it correctly, "steam" will also suffice.

          • Srsly_Bro
          • 4 years ago

          I always enjoy Auxy posts. Thanks

          • Kretschmer
          • 4 years ago

          [quote<]no need to sell your soul to Microsoft[/quote<] Sorry, I stopped taking anything else seriously after I read that. [url<]https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/07/22/m[/url<]

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            I’m sorry you were born without a sense of humor. (*´ω`*)

            I was referring to the fact that you have to sign in with a Microsoft account to make purchases. I don’t mind having to make an account, of course, but MIcrosoft is a bit too free and easy with my personal information. Your real name gets plastered all over their store anytime you make a comment or give a review, and people you play multiplayer with can also see it. It’s bothersome at best and dangerous at worst, for someone like me with a history of being stalked.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            what?
            steam reviews also have your account name. You also need an account. you can also see the steam names of people you’re playing multiplayer with. Same with battle.net. None of this makes any sense.
            At no time does microsoft put your actual real name anywhere public can view it.

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            Do you think you’re clever? Do you really think we wouldn’t notice you said “account name”? (´・ω・`)

            And your remark about real names is just lying. Do you think I haven’t used the Windows Store? Go look at reviews of any game. People’s real names are displayed along with reviews of software. That’s not ok!

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            You’re upset because they have peoples first names? you’re upset because it says “glenn”? That’s far less personal than saying “sweatshopking”. There are literally like 1000000 josh’s.
            i don’t think i’m clever, i just assumed since first names aren’t secret in LITERALLY ANY SITUATION you meant something actually important. My bad.

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            “Victoria Gonzalez” is not a first name.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            Then that person shouldn’t have put it in the first name box. It does use a first name only.

            • auxy
            • 4 years ago

            It shouldn’t use real names at all! It should use a username and you should be able to change that username at will. Ideally it should be anonymous! ( `ー´)ノ

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            You can change your name at will. [url<]https://account.microsoft.com/[/url<] First names are anonymous. They're more anonymous than user names.

            • tsk
            • 4 years ago

            Stalked?!
            Who would stalk a lesbian atheist feminist autistic gamer??
            /jk

            Glad you were able to laugh at this since you were born with a sense of humor. 😀

        • BobbinThreadbare
        • 4 years ago

        I bought Portal 2 and got PS3 and Steam copies. Nothing stopping other companies from doing this.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          That’s certainly true, it’s just not been a commitment from any other companies.

            • BurntMyBacon
            • 4 years ago

            I’m wondering if it’ll be the same with UWP. Microsoft (like Valve) games will probably get the buy once option, but how do we get the other developers on board?

        • derFunkenstein
        • 4 years ago

        I haven’t actually seen that happen. I can’t play GoW on Windows, for example, and I bought it on Xbone. I guess I should download Killer Instinct on my PC, but we’re not at ubiquity for this feature yet.

    • auxy
    • 4 years ago

    I honestly hope Microsoft abandons UWP soon. For all the talk of improved security and reliability, it’s just that much more impossible to fix when it breaks. It also continues the MIcrosoft trend of taking control away from the user. Plus it’s a worse gaming experience. (´;ω;`)

      • biffzinker
      • 4 years ago

      I’d be hesitant to buy a game on UWP when the service will probably disappear in the next 5-10 years and your games will no longer work. Games for Windows Live as an example, has everyone forgotten how that turned out?

        • brucethemoose
        • 4 years ago

        Yeah, Microsoft’s track record doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.

        If I’m gonna buy games on a DRM-infused, closed platform, it has to be something I [i<]know[/i<] will stick around and, more importantly, work without excessive restrictions for awhile. Steam, Origin, the App Store... Hell, even the console stores feel safer than UWP does to me.

          • Klimax
          • 4 years ago

          It is integrated into system, bit different from other services. (Also they still support W8 apps and on WP they still support WP 7.x apps)

        • DoomGuy64
        • 4 years ago

        Zune as well.

        • _ppi
        • 4 years ago

        App store is now core OS functionality. Not just Windows (there actually the least), but look at Android/iOS. If the Windows Stores disappears, you will no longer use Windows anyway.

      • tsk
      • 4 years ago

      Oh my poor naive sweet summer child…

        • Klimax
        • 4 years ago

        Eh, it is mostly nonsensical wish. And not exactly good one too.

      • sweatshopking
      • 4 years ago

      I sure hope they don’t, and they’re not going to. In fact, they’re betting [i<] everything [/i<] on it. So, stop whining about stuff you seem to not really understand all that well (based on how many times you've posted stuff on UWP that isn't relevant or correct) and just continue to use windows the same way you always have since that's an option, and let those of us who like to pay for stuff once, pay for it once.

        • rechicero
        • 4 years ago

        I’m curious… how many times did you pay for the same windows program in the past? I never paid more than once… since when 286 was “the new beast” and a 20 MB HDD a dream. Really, if you can’t find a better reason to defend UWP is actually much worse than I thought :-S

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          I have paid multiple times for the same apps on my phone, xbone, and pc.

      • Klimax
      • 4 years ago

      Not gonna happen. For too many reasons, good and bad. For one, it was demanded for security. Sandboxing is very hard to nearly impossible for WinAPI, because it was designed long ago, when programmers were trusted to do the right thing. It removed quite few hard jobs from programmers like DPI scaling and other taxes.

      In short it will not be abandoned. It bridges too many things and takes care of too many important things which must b dealt with.

      And trusting users is long gone thing. Too many idiots.

        • auxy
        • 4 years ago

        I don’t know why I’m wasting my time replying to a Klimax post, but…
        [quote<] And trusting users is long gone thing. Too many idiots.[/quote<]Really? Really?! You know you're a user, too, right? And you're okay with this? Because what you're saying is that because there are too many stupid and/or ignorant users, we might as well assume all users are ignorant and/or stupid. [b<]You're calling yourself ignorant and/or stupid![/b<] Come on now! ( ゚Д゚)

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          you didn’t counter his point, just repeated it.

    • derFunkenstein
    • 4 years ago

    So how does this work, exactly? UWP gets an update enabling this stuff, but I’m sure it’s up to app developers to actually give users control, right? Or is this a universal setting buried somewhere in the Settings app?

      • auxy
      • 4 years ago

      [quote<]Microsoft does caution that its update alone won't turn on these features in UWP titles. It appears game developers will need to add the necessary switches to turn on these features in their games, too. Redmond does say that Forza Motorsport 6 and Gears of War Ultimate Edition should get support for these features "in the very near future," though.[/quote<]

        • derFunkenstein
        • 4 years ago

        *headdesk*

        my bad.

          • RAGEPRO
          • 4 years ago

          The funny thing is, Jeff saved my behind on this one, because I actually forgot to add that note before I sent it to him for editing. When I saw your comment I thought “oh, crap!”

    • sweatshopking
    • 4 years ago

    I honestly hope UWP takes over for all apps. So much cleaner, easier to maintain, and way more secure. Plus buy once own everywhere is fantastic.

      • ImSpartacus
      • 4 years ago

      Yeah, walled gardens are great if the garden itself is good. But I admit that I’ve lost a little trust in Windows for stuff like my phone.

        • Goofus Maximus
        • 4 years ago

        I guess it doesn’t work, when you wall the garden OUT… 😉

      • EzioAs
      • 4 years ago

      I’m probably one of the few that share your opinion. UWP does seems like a great idea if Microsoft keeps improving it.

        • rxc6
        • 4 years ago

        I think they will keep improving it and I am happy for it. The down votes for SSK are just a reflection of how this community feels about MS, which is really extreme compared to the other websites I visit.

    • Concupiscence
    • 4 years ago

    Prediction: Microsoft fumbles toward competence, but will fall well short of relevance. Everything old is new again.

      • HERETIC
      • 4 years ago

      Nice one-
      I think someone took a bottle of apple coolaid over to MS.
      All they can think now is-
      “PLEASE-PLEASE-PLEASE-I WANT TO PLAY THE BIG CON TOO”

    • Aveon
    • 4 years ago

    OMG ! It was just yesterday I reverted back to Windows 7.

      • Voldenuit
      • 4 years ago

      Sticking on 7 for as long as I can on my main rig. Laptop’s on win10 because of touch and battery/drivers.

        • Firestarter
        • 4 years ago

        psst Windows 10 has better gaming performance

          • Aveon
          • 4 years ago

          Yes, but a lot of incompatibility issues with my 3 Year old hardware.

          • Ninjitsu
          • 4 years ago

          All the benchmarks I’ve seen state otherwise.

          (Unless of course DX12 is involved, even then I haven’t seen anything that screams “UPDATE NOW”).

            • BurntMyBacon
            • 4 years ago

            I’m sure SSK would be happy to put that in ALL CAPS for you so that you’ll have at least one example that screams “update now”. ;’)

      • torquer
      • 4 years ago

      You realize that being on Windows 10 does not force you to buy UWP games, right? I suppose if you can’t control your clicks it definitely prevents you from doing so, but staying with an older OS just to prevent you from the “temptation” of buying and playing UWP games seems like a bad idea to me.

        • rechicero
        • 4 years ago

        I changed to Win 10 and I can say the older OS is better. The only reason I dont go back is because after updating and then installing W10 from scratch (hoping it would be better)… I’m lazy.

        But Win 10, right now, doesn’t offer a single thing I really liked (yeah, the task manager is better and… thats it?), but takes away a lot (no prompt in the accesories folder, no gadgets, no Aero, config options scattered in different places with different design criteria, forget about controlling updates like in the past, etc). And no, is no faster. It can seem faster when booting… if you don’t shut it off completely. But booting from zero, pretty much the same. Ah, and last, but not the least, needing to research how to remove the mandatory log in at boot (and the stupid part when having only one account, it doesnt start loading your programs from the log in screen, as W7 did) is just the gravy. It’s an awful design (as in OS design).

          • RAGEPRO
          • 4 years ago

          Try Win+X keyboard shortcut. Very important for power users (it is, after all, the Power User Menu).

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 years ago

          i changed to win 10 and i can say the new os is better because SUBJECTIVE.

          • torquer
          • 4 years ago

          Assuming you’re a gamer (why else would you be here?), DX12 is offering a single thing you should like.

          That doesn’t make up for whatever shortcomings you feel it has, perhaps, but eventually you will have to submit and go Win10 or forever be playing progressively older and older games.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 4 years ago

            older != inferior so that’s actually not a problem.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            it is if you want to play a new game. i mostly play older games too, but let’s not pretend that there aren’t any good new games.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 4 years ago

            Of course, I’m not saying there aren’t. Actually on second thoughts, I’m not sure there are any must-have DX12 exclusives yet…so i’ll rephrase that – I’m not saying there won’t be.

            • sweatshopking
            • 4 years ago

            I don’t know of ANY dx12 games i care about at this stage. not even must haves, merely even caring at all. I like TW, but i don’t care for warhammer. even though you can buy rise of the tomb raider for like 9$ USD on the UWP platform (change your pc’s region to ukraine for the purchase) i didn’t buy it. Really the only one i’d say i even slightly, though really very little, cared about.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 4 years ago

            I didn’t want to make that strong of a statement, as I figured I may not be aware of such games. But now that you say that yourself, I will say that I agree, and is one of the major reasons that I’ve not moved to Win 10 yet. No DX12 game I care about.

            I wonder how they’ll handle the region thing, I don’t like Steam’s way to be honest.

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