The rumors of Atom's death were greatly exaggerated. Intel just released documents with the final specifications of its latest NUC kits, called the NUC6CAYH and NUC6CAYS. Both NUCs are based on the Apollo Lake-family Celeron J3455 SoC and its four Goldmont cores. The CAYH is the barebones version, and the CAYS includes a 2GB SO-DIMM and 32GB of eMMC storage. The two kits are otherwise identical.
The little 1.5-GHz Celeron isn't likely to set anyone's pants on fire with its performance. Still, its ability to "burst" up to 2.3 GHz should help it power through the occasional bit of meaty computing that desktop use requires. The J3455's graphics bits are called Intel HD Graphics 500, and comprise twelve Gen9 execution units running at up to 750 MHz. This GPU's video block is a relative of Kaby Lake's, so it can handle decoding duties for VP9 Profile0 in up to 4K resolution, and HEVC Main10 in up to 8K resolution.
The NUCs can accept two DDR3L-1866 SO-DIMMs. Besides the 32GB eMMC SSD on the CAYS model, the only storage options on the new NUCs are a single 2.5" SATA drive bay and an SDXC slot. That's par for the course for NUCs, though. Even though Skylake officially dropped support for the ancient HD15 VGA connector, it's back on the new NUCs alongside a full-size HDMI 2.0 connector. These little PCs look well-suited for HTPC use, too: besides the headset jack on the front of the machine, Intel also includes a mini-Toslink optical audio jack on the rear panel.
For peripheral connectivity, the new NUCs offer four USB 3.0 ports. One of the ports is amber-colored and specifically intended for device charging. Internal headers offer access to two more USB 2.0 ports. Intel includes a 3168 Dual-Band 802.11ac Wi-Fi + Bluetooth module on an M.2 card, and Realtek provides gigabit Ethernet. Interestingly enough, Intel also builds in two mics on the front of the device for use with Windows 10's Cortana (and other apps, presumably).
Users are free to install their own operating system on the NUC6CAYH, while the NUC6CAYS comes with Windows 10 Home pre-installed on its eMMC module. Pricing and availability info remains a mystery.
Liar, liar!
To quote P!NK: “SO WHAT!?”
Please tell me these new celerons aren’t like the old, as in chips that really should have belonged in the garbage by having L1/L2 cache defects large enough to completely jeopardize performance
On DRAMeXchange in terms of spot prices DDR3 did not cost that much more and in fact right now it cost slightly less per bit then DDR4.
Edit: and if you compare eg [url<]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820242187[/url<] and [url<]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239288[/url<] and [url<]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820242093[/url<] , there is not that much of a difference either.
It’s fine if that’s the way buyers view it, but Intel doesn’t exactly go around advertising the lack of HBR format support so a lot of people could end up getting surprised. Just putting out a word of caution to try and help people not be surprised.
Newegg offers the following Intel-branded NIC based on the 82574L chipset: Item# N82E16833106033 for $29.99.
From a Linux (4.4.26 kernel) box running jumbo frames and VLAN tags, I see the following in the output of “ethtool -k eth0”:
Features for eth0:
rx-checksumming: on
tx-checksumming: on
tx-checksum-ipv4: off [fixed]
tx-checksum-ip-generic: on
tx-checksum-ipv6: off [fixed]
tx-checksum-fcoe-crc: off [fixed]
tx-checksum-sctp: off [fixed]
scatter-gather: on
tx-scatter-gather: on
tx-scatter-gather-fraglist: off [fixed]
tcp-segmentation-offload: on
tx-tcp-segmentation: on
tx-tcp-ecn-segmentation: off [fixed]
tx-tcp6-segmentation: on
udp-fragmentation-offload: off [fixed]
generic-segmentation-offload: on
generic-receive-offload: on
large-receive-offload: off [fixed]
rx-vlan-offload: on
tx-vlan-offload: on
ntuple-filters: off [fixed]
receive-hashing: on
highdma: on [fixed]
rx-vlan-filter: on [fixed]
vlan-challenged: off [fixed]
tx-lockless: off [fixed]
netns-local: off [fixed]
tx-gso-robust: off [fixed]
tx-fcoe-segmentation: off [fixed]
tx-gre-segmentation: off [fixed]
tx-ipip-segmentation: off [fixed]
tx-sit-segmentation: off [fixed]
tx-udp_tnl-segmentation: off [fixed]
fcoe-mtu: off [fixed]
tx-nocache-copy: off
loopback: off [fixed]
rx-fcs: off
rx-all: off
tx-vlan-stag-hw-insert: off [fixed]
rx-vlan-stag-hw-parse: off [fixed]
rx-vlan-stag-filter: off [fixed]
l2-fwd-offload: off [fixed]
busy-poll: off [fixed]
The 82574L chipset is a few years old, but very stable (IMHO) even under “extreme loads”, like 950+ megabits per second.
The newer Intel 21x & 35x series chipsets can be found on some NICs at Newegg and even some “high end” motherboards, but at higher prices and features very similar to the 82574L chipset; I have systems with NICs based on those chipsets also.
FWIW…
What BurntMyBacon said about inconsistent performance in Realtek chipsets “mirrors” what I have seen over the years.
Others have pointed out that the average consumer will not notice the differences between Intel and Realtek; they are right.
Years ago I used “iPerf” to see the differences, but I have misplaced my test results. I do remember that the older (before E) Realtek chipsets seemed to “fall over” when passing full line rate loads to a Linux server with an Intel NIC; some of the very first revisions (A & B I think) were “dreadful”. The newer (G & H) Realtek chipsets are getting better; I did mention the slow incremental improvements. Always ensure your Linux install loads the Realtek firmware that is contained in (usually) the “linux-firmware” or similar package; it does make a difference.
As for Chrispy_ calling my post “hate”, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I was expressing my own opinion as to why I would not buy this product.
I have a NUC5i3RYH (Broadwell i3-5010U) that’s used for BlueIris and even though the fan spins at a relatively fixed ~3300rpm, I cannot hear it (without intentionally trying to, like putting my ear up to it).
So an Atom HTPC that goes for a few hundred dollars might not be the ultimate computing system to drive a $10,000 semi-professional theater setup.
I don’t think that’s too big of a deal TBH.
I don’t think TOSlink solved the problems the OP mentioned. For 5.1 PCM or up to 7.1 compressed formats, fine. But for uncompressed 7+ channel PCM and Dolby/DTS format you need HDMI. And you’ll definitely need HDMI for those multichannel Atmos setups (9+)
Realtek is less of a problem on Linux than Windows ironically.
Subjectively, I’ve had a few Realtek NICs fail on me, but not enough to call it out of the ordinary. The biggest problem I’ve seen with Realtek is inconsistency. Working with them feels a bit like working with a less than perfect wireless connection. I’ve seen random packet drops that can (but doesn’t always) cause stutter in games or video feeds.
Objectively, the average latency of a gigabit connection was a few ms higher than the competition in my testing. This won’t be noticed online, but can be measured on a LAN. Overall throughput was 6%-8% less than the competition. Again, not something you’ll notice with online activities or even games, though you may or may not notice it with a large file transfer across a LAN. The major issue is consistency of latency (as measured by jitter in iperf or in bad cases by spamming pings across a LAN and watching the return times). Ping is usually a bad test for latency since it doesn’t have enough precision to tease out the difference between GBe NICs, but particularly misbehaved models can show some issues. Incidentally, the Realtek NIC spend most of its time in the <1ms ping response range. However, occasional jumps to large latency values drives up the average. This is also far more noticeable than consistently measuring 2ms – 4ms. Generally, even with the faults, Realtek NICs are good enough for most home users. I also saw little difference between onboard and addon card.
I’ve run my test set twice. Once back in the Athlon 64 era and again more recently to see how things have changed. Both test sets use an opteron server with an Intel NIC as the target endpoint. Where applicable, data transfers were done from a source RAMdisk to a target RAMdisk.
Systems under test:
Athlon 64 3200+ system (Realtek onboard/Realtek addon, Intel, Broadcom) NIC
Intel i7-3770K system (Realtek, Intel onboard/Intel addon, Atheros) NIC
Software:
Cygwin (PING) / Linux CLI PING- Sanity check
NetIQ’s Q-Check (Sorry, don’t have IxChariot) – Can’t run on Linux
iperf – Where the bulk of my conclusions come from
[quote<] These little PCs look well-suited for HTPC use, too: besides the headset jack on the front of the machine, Intel also includes a mini-Toslink optical audio jack on the rear panel.[/quote<] TOSLink direct to my receiver (just like I do now with my regular PC) FTW.
A warning to anyone looking to use this as a “media center” or “HTPC”:
Previous Celeron/Atom NUC users report that high bitrate audio formats are not supported for pass through over HDMI. If you just want a cheap box to do basic AV formats it’s a good option, but don’t expect to have it output Atmos or True HD or anything of the sort.
DDR4 is normally lower voltage than DDR3L.
So you actually bought one of the FX9000 chips?
It’s probably fine for a NUC, even if it is as problematic as you claim. Personally, I’ve used the Realtek NIC on my motherboards for years without issues.
A home user—especially on a NUC—generally doesn’t have to worry about VLANs or jumbo frames.
I could maybe see some benefit for TCP offload in these low-power devices, but I don’t believe Intel offers it on consumer NICs either.
It’s low-voltage, so they didn’t have much choice. There is a huge premium on LPDDR4 right now, so it makes sense to use the older stuff for a budget item.
It’s not like the Atom-derived CPU is going to hurt from it. The performance is already going to be quite low. Anything that really needs a few extra GB/sec bandwidth probably needs a better processor.
FWIW, they’re fine on Linux, so that’s not it.
Yes, I am. I have a C1 on my 1080p TV as well and it’s served quite well for a number of years. The imporvements to the C2–comes with oversized heatisnk, twice the memory, faster processor, etc.–make it do the job evern better.
A lot of little SBCs struggle with the UI of Kodi (or whatever spinoff you use), but the C2 has enough CPU and GPU so as not to cause problems.
I can’t find data on Main10 support, though.
Seconded- for consumer issues, there’s nothing wrong with Realtek NICs (or basically anything).
I don’t understand all the Realtek hate. I’ve certainly used them with Jumbo Frames and VLANs.
Is it because they suck for Linux or something? I never ever ever see Realtek issues in Windows and the few linux distros I have used never complained about the Realtek NICs.
In fairness, I don’t have any enterprise Realtek experience – That’s all Intel or Broadcom,
More importantly, does it even run Crysis?
cause they speedy
oh wait
And: industrial applications, institutions and offices in developing countries.
Could be useful for e.g. point of sales systems.
These are not i3/5/7. Why would they sound like jet engines?
[url<]http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/794/698/475.png[/url<]
I wouldn’t stick one of these mini jet engines in my living room….
According the the product webpages available through the URLs in this article, the Intel Downloads section lists Realtek as the wired network interface chipset for these NUCs. That dissolved my interest in these products immediately.
Seriously, how much “small change” is Intel saving by using Realtek wired network chipsets over their own “in house” Intel chipsets?
Even a few dollars difference (less than 5 USD) in the raw materials costs of these chipsets is acceptable to me in order have a reliable product. Even a basic level “i210” series chipset is better, IMHO, than any Realtek wired network chipset.
My own opinion is based on having too many “strange experiences” with Realtek wired network interfaces over the many years I have encountered them in various computer products. I have seen dropping packets under medium to heavy loads, to not supporting maximum-sized jumbo frames with VLAN tags (9212 or 9216 bytes depending on how the chip counts the bytes), to problems I can no longer remember. Realtek stuff seems to get better in extremely slow increments. Granted, Intel is not without it’s “issues”, but Intel has as many “families” of wired Gigabit Ethernet chipsets as Realtek has revisions of their 8169 chipset. I’ve seen Realtek revisions go from “A” to “H” over the years.
To me, Intel wired network chipsets today are like 3Com wired network interface cards of years past. You buy them, install them, and they just seem to work “forever”.
When discussing HTPC use, you’ve not mentioned the IR sensor found on the front, and specified in ARK: [url<]http://ark.intel.com/products/95078/Intel-NUC-Kit-NUC6CAYS#@specifications[/url<] Like tablets, I wish that more than 32 GB eMMC was provided out of the box. The good news is that we can always sling in additional storage.
Are you satified with it ? I was thinking about ordering one to have a cheap mythtv backend with reasonable power consumption.
Where’s my Serial port? I demand my serial port right beside the VGA. And don’t forget the Parallel port while you’re at it!
Might want to check prices, DDR3 is going up fast as it hits EOL. Comparable desktop kits (non-oc) cost more than DDR4 right now. 2x8GB of noncrap was around $50-60 this summer, now more like $90-100.
[url<]https://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/Intel-Apollo-Lake-Atom-Celeron-schneller-und-mit-4K-60-Hz-3457002.html[/url<]
Bet my $40 ODROID-C2 plays back 4K H.265 content better than this box ever will.
hah!
It’s good they have to DIMM slots. I’d seen some mutterings about recent NUCs that weren’t able to do Hi-res (4k?) stuff with only 1 DIMM.
But my ego demands 200W of meltdown in my CPU.
Logged in just to upvote.
Also, the reflexive chuckle made for an awkward moment at work…
Typo’d. Thanks for the note.
Also corrected some information about the video decode.
I’d like DDR4 more, sure, but to be honest DDR3 is cheaper and this Atom on steroid is not going to be bandwidth starved by it in any practical scenario.
I’m guessing 100-150 USD.
To quote Miles Davis: “So What?”.
If it was cheap enough one might attach them directly to TVs or something. But NuCs do have a bit of a premium historically I think.
VGA?
whatyearisit.png
I know some people like them in laptops for work projectors, but that’s solved by just keeping a dongle on the projector end. For a desktop it’s even more odd.
DDR3?!? C’mon
[quote<]Users are free to install their own operating system on the NUC6CAYB, while the NUC6CAYS comes with Windows 10 Home pre-installed on its eMMC module. Pricing and availability info remains a mystery.[/quote<] NUC6CAYH is what you mean, and not NUC6CAYB I think.
[quote<]The little 1.5-GHz Celeron isn't likely to set anyone's pants on fire with its performance.[/quote<] Not setting pants on fire can be a good thing you know. -- Samsung