Windows Store will bundle video drivers with games

The Windows 10 Creators Update is set to release next spring, and it's poised to bring all sorts of enhancements to Windows 10, from stuff like better support for holographic computing, long overdue enhancements to Microsoft Paint, and support for the upcoming line of inexpensive VR and AR headsets. That's all pretty cool stuff, but a report from Thurott.com suggests that gamers relying on the Windows Store may want to be wary of the update. Microsoft announced that future Windows Store game downloads will come bundled with the latest video drivers for the user's graphics card. The driver download starts when the machine's existing drivers don't meet the minimum version required by the game in question.

The goal is noble, and the theory is sound: Microsoft wants players to have the best possible experience with new games. Both Nvidia and AMD frequently release driver updates alongside big game releases, so unless you pay attention to TR's news page, it can be tough to stay up to date. New driver releases can both fix and introduce new bugs, so many gamers maintain careful control over their driver installations. Driver updates can be often be rolled back, but the process isn't always seamless, and can cause problems of its own.

This move is the latest in a line of somewhat-questionable moves that seem to be intended to address the average consumer's needs while having potentially negative effects for hardcore gamers. Up until fairly recently, games sold through the Windows Store lacked some features that are PC gaming staples, like the since-resolved inability to control v-sync. The way Windows 10 store games are packaged also makes modding and running overlays like Fraps and Nvidia Shadowplay difficult, if not impossible.

Like many of Microsoft's past decisions regarding gaming on Windows, updating drivers automatically might be a good idea for the most casual of gamers, but those who want strong control over their PC's software may find yet more reason to avoid the Windows Store with this move.

Comments closed
    • Zizy
    • 3 years ago

    Sounds like a good idea, as long as a setting lets you avoid this update. Like in Windows for example. MS made it inconvenient enough most won’t mess with stuff and just whine, but if you *really* want, you can ūüôā
    Now, if only every second NV driver wasn’t essential for half of your games and broke the other half.

    • Andrew Lauritzen
    • 3 years ago

    I actually don’t get how this is different from what they already rolled out with Windows 10… news flash, Windows Update *will already* update your driver behind your back if there’s a newer one on there. It happens all the time and unless you’re watching your computer for brief black screen flash the entire day, it has probably happened to you and you didn’t know it ūüôā Trust me, those of us who routinely run engineering drivers are extremely aware of this behavior…

    So like it or not, I’m not sure what this news changes about that situation. Just a trigger to do it more aggressively or something if you download a game from the Windows store? In any case avoiding the store does not avoid this behavior.

    Fear aside, generally this is good behavior for the industry as well. The #1 complaint from game developers about shipping on Windows is out of date drivers, and it’s their #1 support cost as well. Solving this situation goes a long way towards making PCs more attractive gaming targets vs. consoles.

    Yes ideally there should be a way to override the behavior, but putting your biases aside for a second, that should only be necessary in cases where a new driver has caused some sort of problem. Ideally we make those cases as rare as possible.

      • sweatshopking
      • 3 years ago

      basically this. nothing changes, but it’s something to complain about M$¬†

      • swaaye
      • 3 years ago

      Windows 10 doesn’t seem to necessarily update to the latest automatically. Sometimes one needs to manually ask it to look for a driver update in device manager. This also usually doesn’t get you the current WHQL driver offered by the manufacturer. It’s typically a few months old. So the store will probably offer whatever driver the game developers tested?

        • sweatshopking
        • 3 years ago

        it’ll update to what ever is whql

          • Shobai
          • 3 years ago

          This has not been my experience with either my R9 290 at home, the HD6950 in my work PC, or the HD7750 in my wife’s PC. Windows Update repeatedly ‘updated’ /from/ the current WHQL driver back to the default windows update driver. This wasn’t at Win10 release, this was in July/August of this year. I got so fed up with it happening time after time after time that I ended up having to manually disable this ‘feature’.

          Surely this isn’t what MS intended, right?

        • Andrew Lauritzen
        • 3 years ago

        It does update to the latest WHQL drivers automatically in many cases. There are exceptions on some laptops due to various vendorID hackery things where the OEMs try and maintain control over their drivers (which is why you can’t always install drivers from AMD/NV/Intel’s web page on an arbitrary laptop without various workarounds), but mostly it’s free to update drivers as it sees fit.

        There’s obviously no guarantees about the timing of these events and so on, and the drivers that end up on Windows Update are not a 1:1 match – or timed the same – as releases on IHV web sites, but the policy is certainly clear and it does happen in practice all the time ūüôā

        It’s certainly possible that this news is more about “we’ll make sure stuff gets onto WU more promptly when it is needed for some Windows Store game release”. That would make more sense, but as I’ve noted it’s kind of tangential to the way this is being reported.

          • swaaye
          • 3 years ago

          Yeah I think you’re right that it’s on OEM systems that I’ve seen it be months behind the current driver release.

          It certainly goes without saying that the majority of people don’t know what a driver is and need help getting updated.

      • Ninjitsu
      • 3 years ago

      Doesn’t update automatically on my laptop… still running 368.81 from nvidia, latest is 376.19. Ditto for audio drivers/ Then again I’ve skipped the Anniversary Update and have turned off auto updates from the store, so idk.

      EDIT: Not using OEM listed drivers

        • sweatshopking
        • 3 years ago

        Vendorid isn’t overridden by drivers. You won’t get automatic drivers but may be able to manually install them.

        You know the anniversary update improved a ton of stuff, including windows install size, and a ton of reliability and security fixes?

        • Andrew Lauritzen
        • 3 years ago

        Yeah it’s about the actual hardware setup whether you’re get stuff from the general WU WHQL drivers or only ones specifically from your OEM. What driver you have currently installed is not relevant.

        Also do you know that 376.19 is up on WU yet/at all? Like I said, it’s not 1:1 with NVIDIA’s web site and there is some time delay even when the drivers do end up being the “same”, etc.

    • DPete27
    • 3 years ago

    Sounds like a non-issue as long as they make the driver download an optional check box. If an option is presented to decline the driver update, there’s no liability on Microsoft. The hardcore techies will know to uncheck it, the rest of the public won’t pay any attention to what they’re installing and get the updated driver. Something beneficial for once, instead of all the crap-ware people unknowingly install on their machines.

    • Srsly_Bro
    • 3 years ago

    Someone needs to do a house call on SSK. I’m concerned.

      • Vhalidictes
      • 3 years ago

      He’s fine, better than fine he’s cooking up something good.

      It’s his job to be forum contrarian. It’s fun in small doses, I do it myself over at Ars.

        • sweatshopking
        • 3 years ago

        I love you.

    • sweatshopking
    • 3 years ago

    I honestly don’t get you guys. There is basically¬†zero innovation on the gaming front these days outside of Microsoft. Seriously. What have you got? a touch strip from apple? a NEW STORE UI WOWOWOWOW from valve. GOG just keeps trucking¬†along doing the same (I like¬†them, don’t get me wrong) thing.¬†What is Microsoft doing? x86 on arm. HoloLens, new VR, cross platform gaming, xbox to pc (pc to xbox incoming), built in [i<] interactive [/i<] streaming, automatic driver updates¬†(which will make gaming¬†VASTLY more accessible to the masses who don't understand driver updates),¬†industry leading family sharing including playing at the same time on the same purchase, buy one¬†play anywhere, the list goes on. But you JUST WHINE. I don't understand it. I have never¬†REALLY understood many of you people, but gosh. Less and¬†less these days. You're done. you're dinosaurs. you're the¬†old¬†codgers¬†shaking your rakes at the sky. Not¬†only is the future coming, it's [i<] better than anything ever before it. [/i<] I've lived it. The¬†annoyances about PC¬†gaming that have bothered people for decades, and you've¬†shouted about it being a shrinking market, and bemoaned the poor support it got, while you LITERALLY INSIST ON KEEPING ALL THE THINGS THAT MADE IT TERRIBLE. IT'S GROWING NOW, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE OF¬†COMPANIES LIKE MS, NOT BECAUSE OF THE TERRIBLE BUGGY ASS PROBLEMS WE'VE ALL ENDURED FOR 20 YEARS (in my case). These ease of use initiatives are why pc gaming is growing. these initiatives are why esports exist. It's not you. You're the problem. you're the one holding the industry back. Don't like automatic driver updates "borking" your system? talk to amd and¬†NVidia. They're the ones released garbage¬†drivers as official without making them actually function. Automatically installing approved publically released software¬†shouldn't be a concern. if it is, you¬†should be asking the guys releasing it. Rant over. Imma go and cook.

      • RAGEPRO
      • 3 years ago

      [quote<]x86 on arm. HoloLens, new VR, cross platform gaming, xbox to pc (pc to xbox incoming), built in interactive streaming, automatic driver updates (which will make gaming VASTLY more accessible to the masses who don't understand driver updates), industry leading family sharing including playing at the same time on the same purchase, buy one play anywhere, the list goes on.[/quote<]What part of any of this is anything you think anyone here wants, man? C'mon. Listen to yourself.

        • sweatshopking
        • 3 years ago

        You’re just proving my point. These will likely grow the market, and¬†in¬†5 years you’ll be totally comfortable with them.

          • RAGEPRO
          • 3 years ago

          Yeah, that sounds like Microsoft alright. “We’re doing this and you’re going to accept it whether you like it or not.” Just like these driver updates, heh.

          It’s funny; you want to make it all about how we’re “old men” who are “holding things back” but in fact it’s the young folks who don’t want UWP, because gaming these days is all about modding. Look at Minecraft. Notice that the UWP version is still less popular than the old Java version. You know why? Mods. The kids are all about mods these days. Just go to Youtube and search “minecraft mods.” Notice the 17.4 MILLION results.

          UWP is [b<]against[/b<] mods; it's not a matter of support, it's a matter of ideology. I have no doubt that UWP games will get modding support in the form of curated and probably for-pay automatically installed DLC-like "mods". That's not what anyone wants, though. I get it, you like MS, you like what they're doing. I can certainly see why someone would leap to their defense. Really! But what they're doing is bad for the consumer. MS is the soda company using carcinogenic sweeteners to lower prices. "Look at these savings we've brought you!" Yeah, and a nice side of cancer along with it. Thanks, but no thanks.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            Minecraft UWP is getting mods. Also, since¬†UWP and pocket edition are the¬†same game, imma correct you that no, more people¬†play the UWP/PE edition. BUT modding is important, and i think we’re probably looking at something steam workshopy

            I just disagree with what you’re saying. Nothing here they’re doing is cancerous. Making gaming easier for my less tech savvy family? that saves ME time. Saving me money by¬†making my purchases go further? that saves ME money. family sharing? great! Cross platform gaming? yes please!
            What about¬†this is terrible? that they use a new more secure container for their apps!?!?! remember that¬†UWP has nothing to do with the store, is completely open, and anyone can use it for anything, INCLUDING WIN32 APPS, so none of what you’re suggesting makes any actual¬†sense. We’ve been over Sweeney’s oft repeated literally FALSE statements. I went over them with chrispy recently, and it ended with¬†me updating Wikipedia (to have¬†sourced information repeatedly removed). Those¬†ideological concerns have no basis in reality.

            • moog
            • 3 years ago

            You’ll get the option to not install the driver update.

          • alrey
          • 3 years ago

          Were in techreport .. what else do you expect?

      • Srsly_Bro
      • 3 years ago

      What do you mean, “you people?”

      [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1iV24hL8Rk[/url<]

      • Neutronbeam
      • 3 years ago

      Also, get off my lawn, kid.

      • hansmuff
      • 3 years ago

      Whatcher cookin?

        • sweatshopking
        • 3 years ago

        recipe similar to this one. [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbBxkTldDAU[/url<] to be clear, not me in the video. This is one of the best meals on earth.

          • hansmuff
          • 3 years ago

          Looks awesome. I got to get to a store for some of those ingredients.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            man, do it. it’s amazing.

      • TheRazorsEdge
      • 3 years ago

      I mean, it makes sense. Praise the good things like Hololens and DirectX 12. Whine about the things that suck.

      Automatic driver updates should be a *default*, not a requirement. It is super simple to alert the user that their current driver is not supported if they have automatic updates disabled.

      [quote<]Automatically installing approved publically released software shouldn't be a concern. if it is, you should be asking the guys releasing it.[/quote<] If Microsoft is choosing to install it automatically, they need to step up and beef. They can't just enforce a policy change with potential side effects and then expect no blame when problems arise. The rule should always be that the user controls the system, and the defaults make it as painless as possible. If Microsoft wants to manage everyone's drivers, then they need to pressure the driver devs to deliver a working product. You make the change, you own the result. If Microsoft wants to take driver management out of my hands, fine, but they need to deliver same or better results.

        • sweatshopking
        • 3 years ago

        nothing about this sucks, and they already install drivers as AL stated. it’s just whining for the sake of whining.

          • K-L-Waster
          • 3 years ago

          We install new drivers *at our discretion and at a time of our choosing.*

          MS is trying to turn the PC into an ecosystem where *they* choose what gets installed on your system and when. Y’know, like Apple.

          If you want to sacrifice control over your own systems on the altar of Redmond, feel free, but don’t be surprised if there isn’t a long line of people following you with virgins in tow.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            I don’t even know what to say to this view point. I find it¬†entirely irrational and ridiculous, with no basis in reality whatsoever.

      • curtisb
      • 3 years ago

      I know…let’s go back to jumpers and dip switches! IRQ conflicts were just da bomb! No really…they could turn you into a ticking time bomb of frustration while you pull your hair out trying to figure out the right combination of jumper settings to keep things stable.

      And bring back floppy drives while we’re at it!

      Just to be clear, I’m agreeing with you. ūüôā

      • Ninjitsu
      • 3 years ago

      x86 on ARM – yay? too niche

      HoloLens – too expensive, too niche

      new VR – beaten to marke by Oculus, Vive, others

      cross platform gaming – Steam’s had Win/Linux/Mac and i think Playstation too (for particular games, but not sure on this one) for a long time. Can’t play with xbox because MS won’t allow it. ūüôā

      streaming to things – available via geforce experience, steam. Can’t stream to/from xbox because MS won’t allow it. ūüôā

      “interactive streaming” – what? there was something about this in the news but i can’t remember why it was interesting.

      automatic driver updates – don’t want it.

      Your definition of “innovation in gaming” is too convenient, man.

        • sweatshopking
        • 3 years ago

        1.¬†Hardly, but you’re extreme in your positions, so I won’t bother.
        2. currently not for consumers, so idkwtf. 
        3. They’re not trying to beat oculus, if you actually¬†looked up announcements before¬†posting you’d know that.
        4. don’t think steam ever had playstation cross platform gaming, though they did require steam accounts for half life orange box.¬†As for your “ms won’t allow it”¬†actually looking it up will help you: MS LITERALLY¬†HAS GONE ON RECORD IN FAVOR OF IT, SONY REFUSED THEN POSSIBLY CHANGED THEIR TUNE AS THEY DID ON BETHESDA MODS: [url<]http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-responds-to-microsofts-invite-to-connect-xbox/1100-6435688/[/url<] Market for gaming on xbox is larger than¬†mac and Linux gaming, so you guys should stop¬†pretending that's an advantage. As for streaming to¬†xbox from pc ms has gone on record that they're working on it. You'd know that¬†too, had you checked. 5.¬†http://tinyurl.com/z7bjc7t

          • Ninjitsu
          • 3 years ago

          oh not talking about sony-MS, i meant valve-MS.

          EDIT: “but you’re extreme in your positions” lol SSK you can’t be the only one ūüėõ

      • Chrispy_
      • 3 years ago

      Valve have done nothing?

      Trust me;
      [list<][*<]Big Picture Mode[/*<][*<]Steam controller[/*<][*<]game library sharing[/*<][*<]in-home streaming[/*<][*<]SteamVR[/*<][*<][i<]the Vive and it's room-scale awesomeness[/i<][/*<][*<]Support for de-GFWL'ed games that Microsoft screwed in the first place, in lieu of developers that went out of business or don't care[/*<][*<]livestream broadcasting[/*<][*<]a web app that lets you do game-related things on your phone on the bus/train/station/airport[/*<][/list<] All of these things are better than the list of empty promises you cite from Microsoft. Wake us up when x86 on Arm nets anything useful for gamers, or when HoloLens has a single game worth mentioning, when cross-platform gaming lets us play Xbox games on our PC without having to own an Xbox first, or when Microsoft can get driver updates right without screwing over hundreds of thousands of PC's at a time. How many "connected but no internet access" have you fixed this week? I've done about 50. Yes [i<]FIFTY[/i<], and that's not including a few friends that I've explained the workaround for. [b<]PC GAMERS CAN'T TRUST MICROSOFT FOR 15 YEARS OF GOOD REASONS. IF MICROSOFT WANT TRUST, IT HAS TO BE EARNED.[/b<] I'll admit they're starting to make baby steps in the right direction but they have a LOT of wrongs to right and they have to keep doing things right for long enough for those burned in the past to even consider them again.

        • Ninjitsu
        • 3 years ago

        Oh one more – which is more GOG than valve but – you can claim games you bought on Steam on GOG.

      • EzioAs
      • 3 years ago

      I feel ya, I really do.

    • maxxcool
    • 3 years ago

    OH STRAIGHT UP EFF THAT … Oh wait I have NEVER bought a single game from the MS store ūüėõ

    • Eggrenade
    • 3 years ago

    I typically do want the latest driver installed, and I’ve got no problems with Microsoft asking me to install a new one when I’m out of date.

    Who am I kidding? Microsoft never asks for consent.

      • tay
      • 3 years ago

      Should do well in a Trump presidency.

    • USAFTW
    • 3 years ago

    I thought I had enough of automatic driver downloads by windows update, but oooh no.

    • superjawes
    • 3 years ago

    Am I the only one who thinks that this idea has some merit? Yes, even as an enthusiast. I’m thinking that distribution platforms like the Windows Store or Steam probably have the ability to check driver status, and that puts them in a good position to at least warn users when there is a driver mismatch. Heck, if we’re ready to update to the latest drivers, why not get everything at once?

      • RAGEPRO
      • 3 years ago

      Steam actually has an option to automatically check for video driver updates. Really! Open the main Steam window, click “Steam” in the top left, and there it is.

      Certainly an opt-in is better than an automated thing like this.

        • superjawes
        • 3 years ago

        Neat. Thanks.

        • sweatshopking
        • 3 years ago

        why is an opt in better? for who? for you? maybe. my wife? daughter? father? no it isn’t.

          • Vhalidictes
          • 3 years ago

          Your Wife, Father, and Daughter, don’t need newer video card drivers to play Plants vs Zombies, Freecell, and The Sims.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            my son and daughter play MANY games, including civ vi, paladins, skyrim (with mods), goat¬†simulator, lego games, xbox one games, and numerous other ones. My dad’s a huge heroes of might and magic fan, but plays civ v and other games too. My wife¬†plays disneys candy crush clones. i know.

            • Vhalidictes
            • 3 years ago

            Urgh, Goat Simulator is hell on old drivers. I can start to see where you’re coming from now.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            It certainly is! especially laggy on older amd ones! that game has had noticeable improvements.¬†nothing game breaking like¬†the many recent¬†NVidia updates, but it’s sped up a lot

            • Ninjitsu
            • 3 years ago

            >nothing game breaking like the many recent NVidia updates

            that’s exactly why auto driver updates are a problem.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            but that’s not microsofts fault,¬†nor is this policy a departure from their current, and longstanding policy of WHQL automatic driver updates

            • Ninjitsu
            • 3 years ago

            OPTIONAL automatic updates. Even with Windows 7 it suggests a new driver but I can choose not to. With Win 10 I probably disabled it because it doesn’t auto-install stuff.

          • BurntMyBacon
          • 3 years ago

          [quote=”sweatshopking”<]why is an opt in better? for who? for you? maybe. my wife? daughter? father? no it isn't.[/quote<] Rather than argue the merits and demerits of having an opt-in, I'll settle for an opt-out. I'll even pretend to be happy about it (in this case) as those who know enough to make the decision not to use it are also more capable of figuring out how to disable it. Those who don't know or care will get their driver updates by default. However, this puts a pretty heavy burden on Microsoft to make sure the drivers are of good quality. Even though a poor quality driver is the responsibility and fault of ATi / nVidia / Intel, it is Microsoft that is forcing the driver install. The user base this change is targeting often doesn't know or care who made their video chip. They just see Microsoft initiating an update and will associate any failures cause by such an update with Microsoft. The WHQL program is clearly not capable enough in its current form to prevent such issues. It will either need to be reworked, or (preferably) Microsoft should put drivers through even more stringent testing before qualifying them for auto-update status.

      • morphine
      • 3 years ago

      I don’t think many people are disputing that the idea has merit. We’re just wondering if this won’t create more problems than those it’ll solve.

        • sweatshopking
        • 3 years ago

        which problems will it create? somebody might install a crappy RELEASED¬†driver? isn’t that on NVidia and amd? why are they publishing terrible drivers?¬†Having up to date software¬†WOULD NEVER BE A CONCERN IF ANYONE BUT MS WAS PUSHING IT OUT.

          • morphine
          • 3 years ago

          The thing is that by doing automatic installation, someone’s PC might break in without him/her being any wiser. That’s not exactly a good recipe for success.

          It’ll also be extra confusing because from the user’s POV, “this game broke my PC.”

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            then that’d be on NVidia and¬†amd, would it not?

            • morphine
            • 3 years ago

            I’m not exactly seeing what’s unclear here. Nvidia and AMD do not (yet) force driver installations.

            Yes, the fault of a broken driver by itself doesn’t lie with MS, but [i<]an automatic install[/i<] isn't the best of ideas. All the users will see, sooner or later, is a broken PC after installing a game.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            Nvidia and AMD release approved drivers which they claim are safe to install. MS¬†automatically installs the approved¬†publically released drivers. YES, it might break something, but that’s a problem with¬†AMD and NVIDIA for releasing bad drivers. It SHOULDN’T be risky to install publically released drivers.

            • morphine
            • 3 years ago

            I’m sorry if the harsh truth of reality conflicts with the notion of how things should be in the first place.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            I understand where you’re coming from. I just¬†think you’re affixing¬†blame in the¬†wrong spot. The ones to rail against are AMD and NVIDIA.

            • RAGEPRO
            • 3 years ago

            Why should we blame AMD and NVIDIA for a problem Microsoft is creating?

            The point is, the existing system works. A new driver comes out, some early adopters/tweakers/lunatics install it, you hear if it works or not before you mess with it.

            MS forcing new drivers on people via Windows Update was stupid, and this is no less so.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            now it doesn’t work.¬†ms isn’t creating this issue. it already exists. I installed 2 terrible drivers that broke my civ vi

            • Ninjitsu
            • 3 years ago

            YOU did, but others read complaints and DID NOT. I don’t update drivers regularly because i’m not using current gen hardware. Unless a driver brings me a new fix or feature that is relevant, I don’t need it. If it isn’t broken, don’t fix it.

            MS forcing the install is creating the issue, why is this so difficult?

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            While I understand what you’re¬†saying,¬†it’s fundamentally silly and ridiculous.

            • K-L-Waster
            • 3 years ago

            They are not mutually exclusive.

            We can (and do) complain when a vendor releases a crappy driver.

            We also are complaining (and will continue to complain) when MS decides to install said driver without being prompted to.

            It’s my machine, I will decide what to install and when to install it. I really don’t see what about that is unreasonable.

            • BurntMyBacon
            • 3 years ago

            [quote=”sweatshopking”<]I understand where you're coming from. I just think you're affixing blame in the wrong spot. The ones to rail against are AMD and NVIDIA.[/quote<] You're not wrong. ATi / nVidia / Intel have the responsibility and associated blame for their own drivers. However, the general public probably won't see it the way the tech crowd does. Out of your close relatives, how many of them even know if their graphics is made by ATi, nVidia, Intel, AMD, or RTG? How many of them even care? How many of them know Microsoft? How many know the game developer? Now ask yourself who they are likely blame if something goes wrong after Microsoft initiates an auto-update on a driver after launch of a UWP game. There are certainly merits to this initiative, but Microsoft should tread cautiously here. An opt-out setting would not be such a bad thing for those of us who know enough to make that decision either.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            Sure.¬†but WE do. We should put the blame where it belongs. Others who don’t know are in a different situation.

            • K-L-Waster
            • 3 years ago

            The fact that some hardware vendors make crappy drivers from time to time doesn’t absolve Microsoft of blame if Microsoft decides to install them without checking with the user first.

            Both the vendor and Microsoft are to blame in that case — the vendor for releasing it and Microsoft for initiating the installation.

      • JMccovery
      • 3 years ago

      It’s a good idea, until a borked driver is released via Windows Store/Steam that hoses your machine.

      Happened to me once, and is why on my personal machine, I never let Steam/WS update drivers.

        • EndlessWaves
        • 3 years ago

        And you’ve never had a standalone driver installer break your machine? You clearly didn’t own an AMD card 5-10 years ago then.

        As long as there’s a fail-safe option to disable this for specific issues then I welcome the idea.

          • Goofus Maximus
          • 3 years ago

          My own fear for this would be that the first time you realize that Microsoft has automatically enabled this feature for you, will be when the damage is already done. This seems to be the trend that Microsoft has been following in it’s Windows 10 evolution.

          • JMccovery
          • 3 years ago

          Actually, I owned a Radeon DDR, and not until I purchased my 5850 did a ATi/AMD standalone driver wreck my system. Now, I have had Nvidia drivers make my system refuse to boot into Windows; some weird incompatibility with the 9600GT and the primary PCI-E slot on some AMD790(non-X) motherboards.

          My point of view on this is based on how Microsoft does Windows 10 Home; it is entirely possible that the driver updates will be optional, but this is Microsoft we’re talking about; it takes time and complaints for them to do what should’ve been done in the beginning.

          • derFunkenstein
          • 3 years ago

          I recommended a Radeon RX 470 to a friend a couple weeks ago. ReLive came out last week and just wouldn’t install on his machine and broke things like Windows’ built-in reset and restore points. We did wind up reformatting the machine, and I felt really dumb.

          Still, I’d do it again. Switching GPU vendors will do all manner of stuff to a machine. Nvidia doesn’t have anything that competes even closely at this price range – the 3GB 1060 is a fair chunk more expensive, and the 1050Ti is cheaper and slower. We probably should have done it sooner. And after that I withdraw my support for this idea. ūüėÜ

        • _ppi
        • 3 years ago

        I guess MS should rather wait at least a will after drivers release whether there is not avalanche of issues, and perhaps then issue the update.

        Best way would be that only the part of drivers relevant to a given game would be distributed, but that is wishful thinking.

        Personally I download new drivers only when I start to play a new game that might not be supported by my current driver. And GeForce experience nags me quite enough.

      • brucek2
      • 3 years ago

      Just make the driver update/install optional. Even having it as a strongly presumed default requiring specific action to avoid will probably hit the best of the both worlds – the vast majority that is not paying much attention to drivers will on average be better off, whereas the few who genuinely do care and actively manage this themselves will have a way to do it. Win/win.

      Longer term I wonder if the system architecture could actually support multiple drivers available on the same system, with the game being able to specify which version it needed. I don’t mean the whole monolithic driver as it exists now, but I bet you there are specific parts of the API/implementation that cause more problems than others and these are the ones that maybe could eventually be componentized.

    • barich
    • 3 years ago

    Look at this from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know what a “driver” is and just wants their game to play properly. Those people probably make up 99% of the games purchased on the Windows Store.

      • rahulahl
      • 3 years ago

      A simple dialogue box that asks if you want to update your driver when you install a game will suffice for that.

        • sweatshopking
        • 3 years ago

        NO. NOBODY READS DIALOGUE BOXES. THEY JUST CLICK THE X. ALWAYS. DIALOGUE BOXES DO NOT HELP AVERAGE USERS. 

          • rahulahl
          • 3 years ago

          Actually the average user is more likely to press Agree/Next without even reading it. I have nothing against making it the default either. As long as they as put it in the settings somewhere letting you disable it.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            actually, no¬†they’re not, and GUESS WHAT: WE PROVED THAT WHEN MICROSOFT MADE THE X BUTTON AN ACCEPTANCE FOR INSTALLING WINDOWS 10!¬†GUESS WHAT HAPPENED?! PEOPLE INSTALLED IT LIKE CRAZY THEN QQ’D

            • VincentHanna
            • 3 years ago

            A point, undercut slightly by the fact that the popup was designed in such a way that the X button actually installed the update.

            [url=https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/229040-microsofts-latest-trick-clicking-x-to-dismiss-windows-10-upgrade-doesnt-stop-upgrade-process<] Link[/url<]

        • barich
        • 3 years ago

        How will a dialog box asking if you want to update your drivers or not help people who don’t know what drivers are? My parents, who have used computers for 20 years, still ask me if an update dialog box that pops up is legitimate or not. The vast majority of people need things like this and security updates to happen silently.

          • rahulahl
          • 3 years ago

          It all depends on how you phrase it.
          A simple line saying, “Press Next/Agree to install the latest display drivers for optimal game experience”. If you really want, they could stress the importance of how important it is for the proper functioning of the game or for a bug free experience.

          I daresay that the number of people playing video games from Windows Store who will be unable to understand that is a lot smaller than the number of people who are going to be pissed by a forced update.

            • Arbiter Odie
            • 3 years ago

            I really don’t think people want to read that. They will probably just be annoyed, and click “next” without paying attention to it.

            Or it will confuse them, and they will call me and ask what to do (and fail to properly describe the popup, and read aloud all the non-pertinent parts first, heh).

      • VincentHanna
      • 3 years ago

      [quote<]Those people probably make up 99% of the games purchased on the Windows Store.[/quote<] You can say that again...

      • Ninjitsu
      • 3 years ago

      well if the latest driver is buggy they sure as hell won’t be playing much at all

        • VincentHanna
        • 3 years ago

        MSFT’s definition of “the latest driver,” one would hope, would probably be “the latest WHQL driver.”

          • Ninjitsu
          • 3 years ago

          All Nvidia drivers have WHQL labels now, it seems, so it’s kinda meaningless. And if “Game Ready” drivers aren’t WHQL, and they’re for a particular game that requires them, what then?

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            WHQL drivers have to be submitted by the producer to Microsoft for verification.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 3 years ago

            I know. In that case MS isn’t testing them properly, because all GameReady drivers on Nvidia’s site (go to Beta & Legacy) are labeled WHQL. And you yourself know that recent ones have been buggy. ūüôā

    • K-L-Waster
    • 3 years ago

    The number 2 reason to play on PC as opposed to a console is having full control over your setup (the number 1 reason being unadulterated horsepower, of course).

    Microsoft’s response has been a series of initiatives that are solely designed to take that control away and make the PC more like a console.

    To date, nothing has made gaming on Linux attractive to anything but a niche group. Microsoft evidently is bound and determined to change that — not by making Linux gaming better, but by systematically attempting to make Windows gaming flippin’ insufferable.

      • sweatshopking
      • 3 years ago

      NICE PRETENDING. LINUX GAMING 2010! I MEANT 2011 I MEANT 12 I MEANT 13 I MEANT 14 I MEANT 15 I MEANT 16 I MEANT 17

        • K-L-Waster
        • 3 years ago

        Nice deflection from my point.

        Yes, Linux gaming sucks. No disputing that. But if M$ insists on treating my machine as if it is in fact their machine, I’m going to start looking at alternatives. (And I’m speaking as a guy who has 3 Win10 systems in my house.)

        If I wanted a system where the vendor controls everything about my system and I just sit back and watch the movie, I would have bought Macs years ago.

          • sweatshopking
          • 3 years ago

          Sure. you’re¬†welcome to¬†do that. You’d be joining¬†many others who have been claiming they’d¬†do that for a decade.

            • synthtel2
            • 3 years ago

            I’ve been gaming on Linux since 2013 for all the reasons K-L-Waster is talking about. Windows? I don’t need no stinkin’ Windows. I have very little tolerance for Microsoft (or anyone else) thinking they own my computer, so I don’t let them.

      • EndlessWaves
      • 3 years ago

      [quote<]The number 2 reason to play on PC as opposed to a console is having full control over your setup[/quote<] When was the last time you got notified of a new patch but decided to play the game tonight and patch tomorrow instead? <Sorry, you can't read the rest of this post because your browser is busy updating>

        • Vhalidictes
        • 3 years ago

        I’m going to go ahead and guess you aren’t playing “guess what we decided game balance is now?” Paradox games. Stellaris comes to mind.

        Hell, for that matter, if you take all of the legion players of WOW and asked them what expansion was their favorite, exactly zero would say the current one.

        Re: SSK – old news dude, Steam came to Linux and that was basically go-time for Linux on the Desktop. Surprise! Turns out that it arrived and no one cared!

          • VincentHanna
          • 3 years ago

          Paradox is a bad example.

          They (at least on steam) let you go back in time and play on the older versions of the game…

          Which is a good thing because
          1) I can’t stand the modern fort mechanics in EU4
          2) Half of every “balance change” is usually thrown into DLC to make the game completely broken if you don’t want to have your pocket picked every 3 months… In fact, if I were a cynical person, I might suggest that ALL of their “balance changes” over the years had been nothing but veiled money grabs that didn’t improve game-play, so much as complicate it.

        • sweatshopking
        • 3 years ago

        that’s literally never happened to me. i ALWAYS patch, even if it means not playing at all.

          • Vhalidictes
          • 3 years ago

          That’s ok if you like terrible new game mechanics. Different strokes and all that…

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            I DO like terrible new game mechanics. In fact, I mostly play betas now.

          • K-L-Waster
          • 3 years ago

          That’s your decision. It shouldn’t be the decision of some algorithm running in a background thread.

      • odizzido
      • 3 years ago

      Whatever the reasons I do think microsoft has been steadily throwing away what has been good about windows. Both in 8 and in 10, functionality that I actually use has been thrown away and replaced with garbage.

    • derFunkenstein
    • 3 years ago

    Don’t tell the nerds that publishers regularly bundle stuff like DirectX and Visual Studio runtime libraries with their games on Steam. That may upset the balance.

    I have to believe (warranted or not) this is a result of feedback or some telemetry that tells Microsoft that most people (or even a substantial number of people) download games from the Windows store that don’t work on their systems because of out-of-date drivers. My question is, will MS distribute non-WHQL software on the Windows store if you need the latest Game Ready GeForce or Radeon Hotfix drivers to run a game? Interesting.

      • Waco
      • 3 years ago

      You can have a bajillion different VS runtimes installed at any one point, and they rarely break anything of consequence when you have many.

      Driver installs, on the other hand, routinely break custom configurations, settings get wiped, etc. It’s intrusive where DX and VS runtimes aren’t.

    • willmore
    • 3 years ago

    Longest train wreck….

    • hasseb64
    • 3 years ago

    That’s perfect for my 640 XL LTE!

    • Ninjitsu
    • 3 years ago

    Well, looks like I won’t stop ignoring the windows store any time soon…

      • Waco
      • 3 years ago

      Ditto.

    • RAGEPRO
    • 3 years ago

    Just Say No to walled gardens.

      • NTMBK
      • 3 years ago

      So you don’t use Steam I take it?

        • RAGEPRO
        • 3 years ago

        False equivalency.

        I can run many of my Steam games (any that don’t use Steam’s DRM) without Steam at all. I can take my Steam games and play a lot of them — retaining save data! — on Linux. I can play them offline. I can mod them, including hooking into them with extenders and external software that alters the way the game handles memory or accesses files. I can even hack them with Cheat Engine if I so choose.

        I don’t have to use my real name or give out my e-mail address on Steam. I can choose to run games in exclusive fullscreen, borderless mode, or regular old windowed mode. I can control how the game interfaces with my graphics driver, and define behaviors of the game’s engine through configuration file editing or driver control panel options. Best of all, if I don’t like the game, I can get a refund.

        None of this is possible with a Windows Store title.

          • psuedonymous
          • 3 years ago

          [quote<]I don't have to use my real name or give out my e-mail address on Steam.[/quote<] You need to supply your email to create a Steam account. If you're going to pay for anything through Steam, you need to supply your real name and your address.

            • RAGEPRO
            • 3 years ago

            I don’t have to use them or have them visible on the service, though. Your Microsoft Account proudly displays your name to anyone who views it.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            first names only.

            • RAGEPRO
            • 3 years ago

            Still proves my point.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            your first point was disingenuous. you implied there was a concern with that. My name is josh. there 37,253 (apparently) people named josh in the USA, according to some sites that look that up. 

            • RAGEPRO
            • 3 years ago

            Not disingenuous at all. If I combine “Josh” with a couple of other details about you I could probably figure out who you are with quite some specificity. Any information is more than none.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            REALLY? you know me anyway, but you think somebody¬†could figure me out because¬†they know my name is josh? come on man. Yours is, i’ll¬†grant you, more unique, and my sons more so, but nothing crazy about first names.

            • RAGEPRO
            • 3 years ago

            You sort of missed the point. First names are a data point. Data points can be used together to confirm identity. No, nobody’s going to identify someone based purely on a first name, but that’s irrelevant.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            sweatshopking is a data point. WAY more than josh.
            If you’re saying “nobody’s going to be able to identify you based¬†purely on a first name” then why is it irrelevant? sounds like it’s pretty relevant, SINCE THAT’S ALL THEY’RE PROVIDING.

            • RAGEPRO
            • 3 years ago

            I shouldn’t have to explain this to you.

            Here’s a super simple example. Say I get ahold of your phone number and I want to make harassing phonecalls to you. “sweatshopking” isn’t going to be listed on any kind of phone records. However, “Josh xyz” will be. That way, I know I’ve got the right person.

            It’s not far-fetched and it’s not something to take lightly. Personally-identifiable information is something to guard. Steam values my privacy and I appreciate that.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            You’re welcome to prefer not having your first name. I understood from the beginning what you’re saying. I’m also¬†saying first names aren’t important enough¬†to legit¬†worry about, and in fact, most industries don’t. ever notice how¬†EVERY NAME tag in the world¬†that literally¬†hundreds of¬†millions of people wear basically have their first name only? there’s a reason for that. I don’t take it lightly. I do, however, take it rationally.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 3 years ago

            Steam does keep nagging me for a phone number or to use the mobile app, though.

            • VincentHanna
            • 3 years ago

            It happens all the time, dude.

            Google “Swatting.”

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            of¬†course it¬†does. and so does worker harassment because of name tags. and¬†license plates, and phone numbers. IT¬†DOESN’T CHANGE THE FACT THAT PUTTING¬†“JOSH” ON A REVIEW ISN’T A BIG DEAL.

            • VincentHanna
            • 3 years ago

            Maybe you’ll change your opinion after your door is kicked in and an assault rifle is pointed at your head.

            • dikowexeyu
            • 3 years ago

            So, one day you mention anything that gives your city (like you went to some store, or watched a movie on some hour, or just the time of your posts here is correlated), and the list of Joshs is reduced to 32. Then you give another data point, and the list is reduced to 3, but 2 are older than 80, so, you, the remaining, are swatted.

            Swatting includes a chance of being killed.

            You aren’t a nice poster, so a lot of people dislikes Josh.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            People online are people. just like in the real world. i’m not worried about getting murdered.
            I am a nice poster, and literally everyone likes me.

            • dikowexeyu
            • 3 years ago

            Wow, fast answer. I can guess that you aren’t working, and reduce the list.

            You aren’t a nice person. You frequently make unnecessary personal attacks, act demeaning to people with different opinions, and do ever have a chip on the shoulder.

            You like to insult non windows 10 users calling names like “luddites”.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            First off, I don’t think you can ever find a post where I used the term “luddites.”¬†I don’t, and pretty sure have never,¬†insulted a non windows 10 user for sticking with a prior OS. I’ve said that the arguments they put forth might be fantasy, but that’s separate. There are also rules about personal attacks, and if you have one, please provide a link so I can be reprimanded. I’m going to have to insist you back these claims up.¬†I am, on TR, a¬†character which has some exaggerated characteristics, but¬†I don’t think I have a reputation as unkind.¬†Annoying? certainly. Contrarian? almost positively. But please, friend, don’t confuse TR with real life, nor hyperbole with reality.

            • BurntMyBacon
            • 3 years ago

            [quote=”sweatshopking”<]I am a nice poster, and literally everyone likes me.[/quote<] I don't like you ... OK that's a lie, but what about your sweatshop workers.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            THEY LOVED ME! NO JOKE. I didn’t beat them, punish them,¬†lock them in, or any of the other nasty things that¬†occurred¬†prior and post my employment.

            • bjm
            • 3 years ago

            hi josh

            • VincentHanna
            • 3 years ago

            Or, you can use prepaid, re-loadable credit cards.

            Then you can supply whatever names and email addresses you wish…

          • TheRazorsEdge
          • 3 years ago

          Just because the walls are lower doesn’t mean it’s not a walled garden.

          Valve could unilaterally take away any of those capabilities at any time.

          The only way to stop them would be to run Steam in offline mode in perpetuity, which poses a problem if you ever need to reinstall or update games.

          Don’t get me wrong—I have an extensive Steam library—but let’s not pretend it’s anything else.

            • RAGEPRO
            • 3 years ago

            No, uh, no, that’s simply not true. There’s no way for Valve to stop me from manipulating loose files on my disk, for example.

            It’s true that Valve could ruin a significant portion of my library if they chose. Even in the worst-case, though, my Steam library is still more valuable than anything on the Windows store.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            they can just disable your entire library. they own it, you rent it. this is a problem not just with steam though.

            • RAGEPRO
            • 3 years ago

            Well, no, they can’t, heh. They can disable all the games that use Steam DRM — admittedly, a fair portion, but less than half of my library.

            • TheRazorsEdge
            • 3 years ago

            [quote<]There's no way for Valve to stop me from manipulating loose files on my disk, for example.[/quote<] They could roll out an update that applies Steam DRM to your games. Granted, I haven't heard of them doing this, but they can automatically update any of your Steam applications. They can revoke your games. Typically this is only done in cases of fraud, but the capability exists. [quote<]my Steam library is still more valuable than anything on the Windows store.[/quote<] So? That doesn't stop either company from pulling apps, locking things down further, or closing shop and leaving you with broken software. They are both walled gardens, and the only difference is that Microsoft has higher walls. If you want a non-walled alternative, look at GOG. They have no DRM, no revocation infrastructure, and their application does not automatically do anything unless you tell it to. Hell, their application is optional, and you can download installers straight from their web site if you prefer.

            • VincentHanna
            • 3 years ago

            By your definition, GOG is still a walled garden, because they *COULD* potentially, add DRM to all your games; revoke all the titles. Steam’s application is also optional, assuming you stick to DRM-free titles.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 3 years ago

            That makes no sense; GOG lets you download the installer, which is self contained. iirc it doesn’t even phone home during install.

            • VincentHanna
            • 3 years ago

            Weird.

            How does it know what games I have in my library (that aren’t installed on my PC) if it doesn’t phone home?

            I agree though. Calling something a “walled garden” on the premise that they could, potentially build up a bunch of walls doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 3 years ago

            Because it’s tied to your account? I assume you use the GoG desktop client. Downloading the installer straight off the web should not phone home – hence why GoG is DRM free.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 3 years ago

            To be fair they can’t add steamworks unless developers/publishers agree to.

          • sweatshopking
          • 3 years ago

          Names and email already addressed, but here’s the rest:
          1. windows store UWP (WSU) apps can transfer and share saves between windows and xbox one, a VASTLY LARGER MARKET than the 1% of Linux gamers.
          2. WSU apps can be played offline
          3. Modding is coming, but at this point win32 has that bonus.
          4.¬†WSU apps can run in different screen modes, including borderless or windowed. They don’t use the subpar old pain in the ass fullscreen though. You might want it, but i’d ask [i<] why? [/i<]¬†Data suggests that the WSU¬†borderless fullscreen is as efficient as¬†fullscreen. 4. Windows store does do refunds. I've gotten 4 or¬†5 this year for different apps and games. Just gotta ask. What steam doesn't do: 1. buy once play on any windows device, including phone, pc, HoloLens (future), xbox, tablet, pc, iot. Linux?¬†cool. 2. WSU VASTLY SUPERIOR FAMILY SHARING. I buy minecraft once AND I PLAY IT WITH 5 PEOPLE USING THAT SAME PURCHASE AT THE SAME TIME. Steam can only run a¬†SINGLE GAME FROM A SINGLE ACCOUNT AT ONCE. you wanna play orcs must die unchained (a f2p game) while your brother wants to play your copy of call of duty? sorry, brah. with the windows store¬†(depending on server authentication, eg¬†do you need to make a new account or does it use xbox live may or may not be a caveat, though I've personally never had this happen) you can buy Horizon 3, play it with your brother on pc, your sister while she's on the xbone and you're on a pc. steam¬†can't touch that.¬† You also bring some¬†MUCH needed competition to the stagnant¬†steam monopoly. The steam¬†app browser is¬†trash.¬†Features haven't been incoming in forever. The¬†creators updates brings numerous new and useful stuff to the world of pc gaming, and none of it is from valve.

            • RAGEPRO
            • 3 years ago

            Heh, bro:
            1. No one gaming on PC cares about the Xbox One. Sorry. It’s an underpowered, locked-down piece of hardware with a limited library of overpriced software (that becomes useless once the machine stops being supported), limited input devices, and all the same hassles that go along with PC gaming. Despite the admittedly miniature market share of Linux, I would certainly say Linux support is more compelling as a feature than Xbox cross-play.
            2. Not … really. You have to have a “designated offline device” which you can only change 3 times a year. Calling this feature parity is super disingenuous.
            3. Proper modding is never coming to the Windows Store. UWP as a platform is designed specifically against it under the guise of “security” — not for the user, but for the content producer.
            4. Your data is mistaken. Exclusive fullscreen still has benefits in terms of performance, particularly in terms of responsiveness (input latency).
            4 again? Yes, through a process that involves talking to support personnel. Last time I did it (for a refund on Xbox Live) it took most of a week to get my money back. Steam’s refund service is automated and instantaneous. Again, not feature parity.

            The two things that Steam doesn’t do are non-features that no-one would bring up unless they were grasping at straws to try and make the Windows Store seem like anything other than a terrible, terrible cancer on the face of PC gaming.
            1. Buy once play on any Windows device, including Windows PC and Xbox, which are the only two things from that list that actually exist. Congratulations, you already brought this up in 1. Again, no-one cares about the Xbox (just a less-capable PC with more hassle to do anything), so this is really nothing. “Buy once play on your Windows PCs” is something Steam already does. I guess you can say that’s feature parity? Heh.
            2. Do people even use family sharing? I’ve never even heard of anyone doing so, much less seen it. I don’t have a family though, so maybe that’s just me. I’ll give you this one.

            So yeah, it’s got one feature over Steam. For that, you give up any semblance of control over the software. I’ll pass.

            • sweatshopking
            • 3 years ago

            1. except it isn’t to anyone but 1% of the population. there are literally 10’s of millions of xbox one players, who many also have pc’s.
            2. I never said it was feature parity. I clarified that you were wrong. and you were.
            3. well, phil spencer disagrees with you: http://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-promises-to-support-modding-overlays-g-sync-and-freesync-in-universal-windows-apps/
            4. Microsoft disagrees with you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3wTajGZOsA
            5. I’ve been banned for literally months from my steam account because of their screw-ups. I’d take 24/7 chat ANY DAY over the¬†industry garbage that is steam support. I agree refunds could be better, but if you want to look at total support, [i<] there is literally nobody worse than steam [/i<] 1. except the¬†literally 10's of millions of people with Xboxes, including many people here, you're right, nobody cares about them. 2. anyone use family sharing? Yes.¬†Anyone with family does. It's gaming, not¬†anything that matters, but i just don't understand nerds. Never have, i expect i never will.

            • curtisb
            • 3 years ago

            [quote<] No one gaming on PC cares about the Xbox One[/quote<] Just because you don't doesn't mean no one does. I guess you could call all of those Xbox One sales "no one caring." I have (currently) three PC's, two Xbox One's, two Xbox 360 S's, and one Wii U in my household. I also have one MacBook Pro, four Amazon Fire TV's, one Lumia 950 XL, two iPhone 6 Plus's, one iPhone 5, and one iPad 3. I have both a large Steam Library and a growing Xbox One game library. [quote<]with a limited library of overpriced software (that becomes useless once the machine stops being supported), [/quote<] Not even close. The Xbox 360's mentioned above haven't been turned on in ages. Why? Because the Xbox One has backwards compatibility with any of the games I would play, so the software isn't useless. The Xbox One S will play/run [i<]anything[/i<] that was released on the Xbox One. Project Scorpio will play/run [i<]anything[/i<] that has been or will be released for Xbox One or Xbox One S, including the Xbox 360 emulation. [quote<]Do people even use family sharing?[/quote<] YES! I have three kids. It'd rather not have to purchase four copies of a game, thank you very much.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 3 years ago

            I do use family sharing, though with one or two close friends, so it’s fine as it is.

            OTOH my dad can play CoD back home while I can play here other stuff on my laptop, not had a conflict so far.

            • VincentHanna
            • 3 years ago

            [quote<]What steam doesn't do: 1. buy once play on any windows device, including phone, pc, HoloLens (future), xbox, tablet, pc, iot. Linux? cool. ~~ 1. windows store UWP (WSU) apps can transfer and share saves between windows and xbox one, a VASTLY LARGER MARKET than the 1% of Linux gamers. [/quote<] I would love to see you play DOOM on your cellphone... or your refrigerator. Steam is already capable of being put on any 32/64bit windows PC, so lets be honest here. This above comment is only referring to XBone and it's future iterations (should future iterations exist). Furthermore, the fact that you can't download Steam onto your Xbox, which is, in essence a full 64bit windows 10 PC, is purely artificial. This is in no way a "feature" of UWP, it's just MSFT refusing to play ball in their own backyard. [quote<] 3. well, phil spencer disagrees with you: [url<]http://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-promises-to-support-modding-overlays-g-sync-and-freesync-in-universal-windows-apps/[/url<][/quote<] "Modding is Coming"... "Modding is Coming." "Phil Spencer promised!" k. I'll file that in the list of reasons that might change my opinion of MSFT, once they produce. Until then, no.

            • Ninjitsu
            • 3 years ago

            Huh? Borderless window, window and fullscreen have all been available for [i<]years[/i<], would have been really sad if WSU didn't support that.

            • VincentHanna
            • 3 years ago

            It didn’t originally. Windowed mode was added because 95% of apps don’t need to be 27″ wide.

          • jihadjoe
          • 3 years ago

          TIL Steam is a garden that’s grown out of control and is extending past the wall into the neighbor’s property.

        • superjawes
        • 3 years ago

        …this implies that Valve implement quality control on Steam.

        • Eggrenade
        • 3 years ago

        I would call Steam a [i<]curated[/i<] garden, not a walled garden.

          • sweatshopking
          • 3 years ago

          but you’d be wrong.

            • VincentHanna
            • 3 years ago

            According to your non-standard definition.

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