Rumor: Coffee Lake packs six cores in 95W but needs a new mobo

Thanks to the rumored info offered by some purported leaks, it looks like Intel's product stack might get even more complicated. A user over on Chinese hardware site PCEva posted up some legitimate-looking Intel slides that dole a dram of data on the blue team's upcoming Coffee Lake processors. The headlining info is that Intel's next desktop CPUs, codenamed "Coffee Lake," will apparently not work in existing LGA 1151 motherboards despite slotting into LGA 1151 sockets. Have the salt shaker handy.

The news about socket compatibility seemed to be confirmed by ASRock on Twitter, although the surprisingly frank tweet has since been removed. You can see it archived for posterity here. The deletion would seem to cast doubt on that bit of data, but Tom's Hardware confirmed the news with ASRock separately. If we believe the slides from PCEva, Coffee Lake-ready motherboards will use the Intel 300-series PCH, known as the Kaby Lake Refresh platform.

That's right, Kaby Lake Refresh (KBL-R). The purported slides go on to claim that Coffee Lake-S will comprise six models at launch, so it's possible that Intel is planning to fill out the rest of its line with refreshed Kaby Lake CPUs. According to the slides, those CFL-S chips will be available in Q4 this year, and the full CFL-S launch should happen in Q1 of 2018 alongside a separate "Cannon Lake PCH." Even more confusingly, the info seems to indicate that this so-called Cannon Lake PCH will also be part of the 300-series chipset family.

There's other interesting tidbits of news in the post, too. Assuming this information is real, the top Coffee Lake-S CPU will be the Core i7-8700K, packing six cores running at 3.7 GHz base clock and 4.7 Ghz turbo—all within a 95W TDP. These chips will supposedly have 802.11ac Wave 2 and Bluetooth 5 support built into them, although making use of that connectivity will apparently require a Cannon Lake-platform motherboard. The slides also seem to indicate that Intel supposedly has no plans to update its X299 platform or launch new CPUs for it through the first half of 2018.

There's still a possibility that ASRock was speaking out of turn, of course. Likewise, it's also possible that this info just isn't real. Let us know what you think in the comments.

Comments closed
    • raddude9
    • 2 years ago

    Are there any leaks that indicate what kind of iGPU the 6-core coffee-lakes will integrate? It seems obvious that such chips will include fewer GPU cores, and the above slide mentions “up to 24” EUs, does that mean the 6-core will have 12 EU’s and the 4-cores will have 24?

      • JustAnEngineer
      • 2 years ago

      24 execution units = GT2 in Intel parlance. That’s been the standard level for Core i3, Core i5 and Core i7 CPUs for quite some time.
      12 execution units = GT1 is the cut-down offering for low-end Pentiums and Celerons.

      In Kaby Lake, the break occurs between the Pentium G4560, which has the half-capable GT1 Intel HD Graphics 610 and the Pentium G4600, which features the full GT2 Intel HD Graphics 630.
      [url<]https://ark.intel.com/compare/97451,97143,97453,97527,97147,97144,97129[/url<] All of the dies were manufactured with 24 execution units. Intel disables half of them on the lowest-end models. I would expect similar design and product segmentation from Intel in the future.

    • HERETIC
    • 2 years ago

    If CL goes back to FIVR it’ll be interesting,one thing that’s nagged me since Broadwell-
    Is it time to go back to having a North-bridge-Graphics only-well graphics and Ram.
    Would possibly give us choices-
    1. Basic graphics
    2.Double existing graphics
    3. add fast ram to 2.

    Benefit of lower TDP on CPU-important for those extra cores we want………………………….

      • Beahmont
      • 2 years ago

      The latency costs of moving those functions back off the die are higher than any benefits from decreased CPU TDP, or faster basic graphics.

    • Laykun
    • 2 years ago

    Oh great, I get one CPU generation out of my motherboard, thanks intel!

    • Generic
    • 2 years ago

    “rumored info”
    “purported leaks”
    “purported slides”

    Nothing can be taken for granted here folks!

    The information you’re reading is rumored to exist; from sources who claim, perhaps falsely, to being leaks. The images you see may or may not be slides.

    We. Just. Don’t. Know.

    (gets on with actually reading TFA)

    • maroon1
    • 2 years ago

    I don’t see the big deal

    You also need now mobo if you want to buy ryzen

    • tsk
    • 2 years ago

    All of these slides are real and CFL-S should be announced by the end of the month or in September.

      • chuckula
      • 2 years ago

      There have been enough leaks about it to think it’s coming in the relatively near future.

    • Beahmont
    • 2 years ago

    So anyone want to speculate on why Intel is adding Audio DSP’s to their chip line up? Another foray into mobile devices and tablets?

      • Kougar
      • 2 years ago

      If true, then it’s just another another feature Intel can charge motherboard makers to enable on its chipsets.

    • Beahmont
    • 2 years ago

    That last slide also says that the new CNL-H chipset will support a new C10 power state and an integrated power solution state for modems.

    So I now expect stupid amounts of issues from sleep resume on the Cannon Lake chipset. And the pain of it is that it’s most likely not going to be Intel’s fault, but the hardware manufactures who don’t build proper sleep state support into their products.

      • Beahmont
      • 2 years ago

      The same slide also seems to indicate that none of the initial Coffee Lake stuff will support V-pro. As it’s a missing feature from the left side, and explicitly mentioned on the right side.

      • sleeprae
      • 2 years ago

      I think it says “Modern Standby” – which looks to be an extension of Connected Standby.

      Not that it alleviates your concern. Enhances it, really.

    • blargh4
    • 2 years ago

    Any smart folk have a guess on whether these Coffee Lake 6-core parts will share the Skylake-X chips’ intercore interconnect design that tech writers seem to be blaming for various performance regressions?

      • chuckula
      • 2 years ago

      Given the leaked numbers we have seen so far I expect Coffee Lake to [i<]not[/i<] use the same interconnect as Skylake X. That's based on the cache size numbers we've seen that make CoffeeLake look like a straight scale up of Kaby Lake. The ringbus interconnect is more than plenty for 6 cores + an IGP. [Props to the AMD fanboy who downthumbed accurate information and had nothing of intelligence to add. You go cegras.]

        • NTMBK
        • 2 years ago

        I’d agree, and also expect the ringbus to stick around in the next Xeon D.

    • DoomGuy64
    • 2 years ago

    I am totally not surprised at all with this. Intel has a long history of not supporting older motherboards with new CPUs.

    Meanwhile, I expect Ryzen2 to be a drop in replacement for Ryzen. Thank God AMD finally made a competitive CPU, because I was really getting tired of swapping motherboards with Intel.

      • chuckula
      • 2 years ago

      AMD isn’t really any better than Intel in this regard and it’s not really impressive that the next iteration of RyZen will fit in an AM4 socket.

      The main difference is that the AM3 socket was allowed to moulder for years with basically zero upgrade parts but this was spun in the marketing as being “longetivity”.

      When you look at the APU sockets AMD has had a terrible track record when it comes to platform upgradeability with the real insult being that unlike Intel AMD doesn’t even upgrade the southbridge from generation to generation.

      The main reason that nobody cares about AMD providing no upgrade path is that none of those platforms were really worth buying in the first place so nobody felt hurt over AMD taking away their upgrade path.

        • blahsaysblah
        • 2 years ago

        I read AMD says AM4 will be used to 2020.

          • ImSpartacus
          • 2 years ago

          But will it matter?

          AMD made the same promise with AM3+ and they kept that promise. But I don’t know any bulldozer owners that eagerly upgraded from an 8150 to a 9590.

          Similarly, I trust that AMD will support AM4 for a while, but we have no way of knowing if their AM4 follow-ups will be a worthwhile upgrade over the existing Ryzen lineup.

          Now any time you say this, everyone goes, “but Zen rocks and Bulldozer was shit!”

          That doesn’t matter. You’re looking for a good [i<]upgrade[/i<], so you have to [i<]improve,[/i<] upon what's already there. So Zen being so competitive out of the gate actually [i<]hurts[/i<] the chances of being able to "beat" it enough to justify an upgrade in only 3-4 years.

            • DoomGuy64
            • 2 years ago

            Well, it’s competitive [i<]now[/i<], but there are enough differences between amd and intel that zen2 could very well be a worthy upgrade. Especially with memory speeds.

            • ImSpartacus
            • 2 years ago

            That’s right. Zen 2 could kick ass.

            Or maybe not. We just don’t know.

            Anymore, you can keep a CPU for so long that I just don’t really care about in-socket upgrades.

            You might as well spend the extra dosh every half decade to get new connectivity options and updated memory.

            • DoomGuy64
            • 2 years ago

            I can still get by with usb2 and ddr3 if I wanted, so I couldn’t care less about any future options.

            What I do care about is CPU performance and better memory compatibility. I currently have DDR4 3600 running @ 3200. Zen2 could very well make 3600 a walk in the park, and new CPU features like better avx or something would be worth upgrading.

            Zen and it’s platform isn’t bulldozer. The board and memory will do good enough for Zen2. If there is a new board and Zen2 works with either, I’m not gonna buy the board. If there’s a new connectivity standard, I can still buy a PCI-E card if it was absolutely necessary. The board argument is a worthless Intel fanboy talking point. I don’t need a new board when my old board works just fine.

            99% of new intel platform features are worthless marketing gimmicks. Optane? Currently worthless. Wifi? Have it already. I don’t need to buy a new board just because of some marketing bullet point. You can be that person, but count me out.

            • brucethemoose
            • 2 years ago

            Even a small upgrade of Ryzen would be better than Bulldozer -> Piledriver, as it would actually be worth buying.

            • jts888
            • 2 years ago

            We are being promised 12c Ryzen and 24c TR replacements for Zen2, which will be substantial improvements for anybody, especially for those starting in the popular 6c (and 12c TR?) segments.

        • cegras
        • 2 years ago

        And what does any of what you wrote have to do with intel?

          • chuckula
          • 2 years ago

          I’m sorry you posted in response to the wrong comment.

          You should have posted your comment to DoomGuy64 who wanted to praise AMD for making a platform that can take two generations of chips kind of like what Intel does but doesn’t get any praise.

          Incidentally, since AMD has refused to provide a sample of The Threadripper for review to TR even though TR has been more than generous to AMD’s processor lineup in its reviews, maybe you should stop demonizing anybody who doesn’t drink the koolaid.

            • cegras
            • 2 years ago

            Are you OK?

        • NovusBogus
        • 2 years ago

        Was going to say…if AMD sticks with AM4 for more than one or two iterations of Ryzen that’s bad news for anyone expecting them to push performance and functionality forward.

      • blargh4
      • 2 years ago

      I’m surprised anyone would have a reason to upgrade CPUs frequently enough in recent years for it to be an issue.

        • Demetri
        • 2 years ago

        Now that we’re finally getting a core count increase though, I bet there are a lot of quad core Sky/Kaby owners eyeing up a 6-core Coffee chip as a drop-in upgrade. Maybe not so much if they have to buy a new mobo.

        • travbrad
        • 2 years ago

        Yep they’d basically have to support CPUs 5+ years into the future considering how slowly CPUs have been improving lately. Granted the jump to 6 cores instead of 4 has a lot more potential improvement than jumping from one 4 core to another (for certain workloads at least), but I’m sure Intel would just see that as even more reason to buy a new mobo.

      • SomeOtherGeek
      • 2 years ago

      Well, you should not be replacing the CPU every year! Every guys and their dog knows that a Intel CPU lasts years without upgrading.

    • DPete27
    • 2 years ago

    Two PCH for the same generation of CPU sounds a little far-fetched. Even for Intel.

      • mistme
      • 2 years ago

      It looks like they can’t bring CNL PCH earlier than start of 2018 and they still want to have something meaningful to offer for the end of the year shopping season.

    • psuedonymous
    • 2 years ago

    Two-generations-per-socket has been the standard for nearly a decade now on LGA115x.

      • RAGEPRO
      • 2 years ago

      It’s not a new socket though.

        • ImSpartacus
        • 2 years ago

        He meant “two generations”.

        Intel has done this before where three generations share the same socket.
        [list<] [*<]Haswell released with the 80 series motherboards and all was well. [/*<][*<]Haswell Refresh released with the 90 series motherboards, but the CPUs could be dropped into 80 series motherboards. [/*<][*<]Broadwell released on the same socket as Haswell and Haswell Refresh, but only worked on 90 series motherboards. [/*<] [/list<] So you can't put a nice Broadwell CPU in an original 80 series motherboard despite a shared socket. I was on the fence as to whether Intel would do it again with Coffee Lake since this time Zen is competing. But it looks like Intel just dgaf.

          • RAGEPRO
          • 2 years ago

          This is different. As you yourself said, Broadwell still worked in 90 series motherboards.

          This is Skylake (170) -> Kaby Lake (270) -> Coffee Lake, but Coffee Lake isn’t going to work in 270 motherboards.

            • ImSpartacus
            • 2 years ago

            That’s effectively semantics.

            People forget that Kaby Lake is barely 8 months old, it came out earlier this year. Very few people would upgrade their 8 mo old CPU for Coffee Lake.

            The upgrade proposition is for Skylake owners. Skylake came out in late 2015. It’s a full two years old now.

            The situation is similar in the Haswell era. Broadwell arrived barely a year after Haswell Refresh, but a full two years after Haswell proper. The people that were harmed were overwhelmingly the Haswell owners on 80 series motherboards.

            • RAGEPRO
            • 2 years ago

            It literally isn’t semantics. It is the same situation with a different outcome.

            Nobody was “harmed” by Broadwell, heh. Broadwell brought nothing over Haswell besides the Iris Pro graphics; nobody was upgrading from Haswell to Broadwell (well, except auxy, but she’s kind of an idiot.)

            Coffee Lake is different. It has real advantages over the older chips, even Kaby Lake. Higher core counts and higher clock rates on the high-end parts.

            It seems likely, to me, to be the result of Coffee Lake using FIVR. (note: this is pure conjecture, I know nothing.) If that’s the case, it simply isn’t going to work on Skylake and Kaby Lake boards.

            I’m not suggesting anyone is “harmed” by this decision, assuming it’s true. I don’t even actually care. The only reason I posted was to point out that “two-generations-per-socket” is irrelevant in this case because it’s still not a new socket.

            • DPete27
            • 2 years ago

            FIVR on Coffee Lake is a real possibility. I’d forgoten about that.

            • chuckula
            • 2 years ago

            The internal tug of war at Intel over having FIVR or not having FIVR is one of the more annoying aspects of their product line ever since Skylake ditched it on launch [but now it’s apparently back again].

            They should just make up their minds one way or another and go forward.

            • Beahmont
            • 2 years ago

            The problem is that in some cases it makes sense and adds benefits and in some cases it doesn’t make sense and hurts the platform.

            If it’s in Coffee Lake and Coffee Lake is still able to clock up to 4.7 Ghz? It’s at least not hurting the platform, if not helping the platform.

            • Kougar
            • 2 years ago

            Unless the FIVR was optimized for >4Ghz clocks I would think it would negatively affect overclock potential, again. Especially since it will make chips run hotter again.

            • ImSpartacus
            • 2 years ago

            [quote<]It literally isn't semantics. It is the same situation with a different outcome.[/quote<] But when the particular difference is not relevant to the point at hand, then the situation is functionally the same for that particular issue. We could call it a "superfluous" difference if that term makes you feel better. And you're dead wrong if you think Broadwell is a meaningless upgrade. This very blog had [url=https://techreport.com/review/28751/intel-core-i7-6700k-skylake-processor-reviewed<]a glowing review[/url<] of it and eventually called the 5775C, " [url=https://techreport.com/news/29100/the-core-i7-6700k-and-5775c-are-both-available-now<]nothing short of a freak gaming monster[/url<]." I'm honestly a little concerned that you aren't aware of its infamous gaming prowess.

            • RAGEPRO
            • 2 years ago

            Haha, “aren’t aware” is funny. My best friend has one, dude; I know all about it. It’s not that impressive. Fundamentally, it is [i<]not[/i<] different from the 4790K in terms of gaming performance. The TR review bears this out; have you actually looked at the data? Like this [url=https://techreport.com/review/28751/intel-core-i7-6700k-skylake-processor-reviewed/7<]0.1ms difference—at over 110 FPS—in The Witcher 3[/url<]? It performs well for its clock rate man, but outside of a few edge cases it's nothing special. Even auxy will tell you it was a waste of $450 (or whatever she spent on it). Keep in mind CPU benchmarks are done with unrealistically low settings to tease out the differences in performance. Once you crank up the detail settings and resolution—or use a slower GPU—these differences evaporate quickly. The particular difference isn't relevant to the point at hand, you're right—but you're the one who brought it up. The point at hand is that historically it's been two-generations-per-socket because there was a new socket. In this case there is no new socket and yet the new chips still aren't running on the old boards, so the question is why.

            • auxy
            • 2 years ago

            It was only $330 cuz I got it on sale and it wasn’t really a waste because I gave my 4790K to mai waifu. (´・ω・`)

            But yah it was a total sidegrade. I noticed more difference when I upgraded from 290X to FuryX and that was pretty small, hehe.

            I think the L4 cache makes less difference when you have fast RAM. I have 2133 so it is less relevant. In any case I don’t think I will need a new CPU anytime soon. (*´ω`*)

            You forgot to mention CFL-S moving to DDR4-2666.

            • DPete27
            • 2 years ago

            I think you’re onto something more important here. Coffee Lake being less than 1 year from Kaby Lake makes it seem Intel is doing a sort of “pre-release” of Coffee Lake to get 6 core parts in their consumer lineup because of Zen. Ultimately, the “real” PCH isn’t going to be ready until next year.

            • Beahmont
            • 2 years ago

            Except to buy that explanation Coffee Lake would have to have not been on slides detailing it’s existence for over a year and a half now.

            It’s not really a reaction when you’ve been announcing and planning for it longer than the thing you’re supposed to be reacting to has been in existence.

            • DPete27
            • 2 years ago

            Not sure what you’re referring to. CPUs take a non-trivial amount of time to bring to market. So it’s pretty typical to know what the next two generations of anyone’s products will be called.

            Are you saying the launch date has been known for the last 1.5 years? I highly doubt that.

            • Beahmont
            • 2 years ago

            I’m saying that because of the large lead time between products, Coffee Lake’s core count and features were decided and under construction before we even knew Zen was going to be a 8 core CPU. The release time on the slides over a year and a half ago also said that Coffee Lake is due out around this time. If I remember correctly, Coffee Lake is actually late compared to the timeline first proposed in the original slides.

            It’s really hard to call something a response to Zen if all the important decisions for Coffee Lake were made before the details of Zen were known. It’s even harder to be a pre-release if the product is later to market than originally anticipated.

            • DPete27
            • 2 years ago

            That’s fair. Although I’m not sure if Coffee Lake core counts were decided before INTEL knew that Zen would be 8C/16T.

            The reason behind my initial “pre-release” statement is in observation of the PCH features in the above slides. Clearly the KBL refresh PCH is reusing the same features as 200-series PCH but probably changing the necessary power delivery for a FIVR CPU. If you look at the Cannonlake PCH launching in Q1 2018, that’s clearly more feature rich.

            After further thought, it seems maybe they’re just trying to squeeze Coffee Lake in before Cannonlake comes out. Perhaps you’re right, maybe their cadence is a bit off and they’re in trouble of having to skip an architecture revision because of it. I dunno, maybe they’ll string out Cannonlake next year so toes don’t get stepped on. Time will tell.

            Surely if Coffee Lake has 6C/12T then some Cannon Lake SKU must be 6C/12T also? Just kindof sounds like: “dang, Zen is killing us on cores. Oh! here’s a project we have lying around that’s got more cores. Let’s put that out ASAP.”

            • Beahmont
            • 2 years ago

            Who knows? The other thing that bothers the hell out of me is that these new slides show a Coffee Lake, and a Coffee Lake Refressh, but no Cannon Lake for Q1 and Q2 2018. Thinking back on Intel’s last statements on Cannon Lake, there might not be a Cannon Lake desktop, or only limited showings like Broadwell.

            • DPete27
            • 2 years ago

            That would suck. I was hoping Coffee Lake would be the next Broadwell instead. I’m hopeful for Cannon Lake launching on time since the 2018 PCH revision is named Cannon Lake.

            • exilon
            • 2 years ago

            Not sure I would say Z87 owners were harmed by lack of Broadwell support. I certainly would not have upgraded my Haswell to Broadwell.

            I would upgrade Haswell to Coffee Lake, but I’m concerned about whether Z370 will even be compatible with the next generation.

            Either way Kaby Lake i7 owners are getting screwed. There’s at least the remote possibility that there will be a Z170/Z270 compatible Kaby Lake refresh upgrade path for i5 owners.

          • exilon
          • 2 years ago

          Broadwell had changes to the FIVR implementation and required a new override rail for low power states, where FIVR was less efficient. 90 series had that, 80 series didn’t.

          Rumor on RWT has it that this workaround for the early FIVR generations was the reason why the Israel team didn’t like it.

        • psuedonymous
        • 2 years ago

        It may have the same pin count, but that doesn’t always mean the same socket. LGA2011 got 3 versions, for example.

      • _ppi
      • 2 years ago

      Kaby Lake is not a real generation. So it’s just one.

      Oh well, Intel, it’s a pity you do not want my money. I bought 6600K with prospect of some real upgrade. Now I will use my CPU as long as it can do stuff I want (=delayed sales) and then I will decide between you and AMD, fair game (and as of now, they would win).

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