Rumor: Leaked AMD roadmap pins Zen 2 for 2019

Maybe you're burnt out on all the rumors and leaks about Intel's eighth-gen CPUs. Here's something a little different, then. Spanish site Informatica Cero claims to have gotten hold of a leaked AMD roadmap displaying the company's plans for the next couple years regarding APUs and desktop CPUs. Please help yourselves to the rock salt in that jug over there and read on.

Source: Informatica Cero

First, let's talk desktop CPU parts. Ryzen's purported successor is codenamed Pinnacle Ridge, and it may arrive in 2018 using the same Summit Ridge architecture but with a "performance uplift." What that exactly means is anyone's guess, but we're placing our bets on a much-needed clock speed boost originating at least in part from a move to GloFo's 12LP process. Those who already bought expensive decked-out X370 boards may be able to rest easy, too. If the roadmap is true, Pinnacle Ridge will still use Socket AM4.

The rumor that's likely to water everyone's mouths pertains to Matisse, or what could be called Ryzen 2. The connection between the painter and a CPU is anyone's guess, unless there's a ratio between core counts and the number of dots in one of his pointillistic paintings. If the info in the slide is legit, Matisse will arrive in 2019 with "Zen 2" cores onboard. There's no further details in the slide, though, other than the fact that Socket AM4 will still be the platform of choice.

There's also word-by-rumor that the Ryzen mobile APUs (née Raven Ridge) slated for 2018 might have up to eight Zen threads. We take that to mean that we could see quad-core models with SMT. The Raven Ridge chips are also rumored to pack 11 of Vega's CUs for graphics horsepower. In desktop machines, these chips might go into Socket AM4 as usual, while in notebooks they could go into a new Socket FP5.

Continuing with the famous painter theme, the leaked roadmap pins Picasso as Raven Ridge's successor. The purported new APUs are pinned for 2019 and will use the same Raven Ridge architecture, except with a "power/performance uplift." Once again, we'd wager this means a process shrink and the resulting clock-speed boost. Should the roadmap pan out, Picasso APUs will slot into the same AM4 and FP5 sockets as Raven Ridge chips. All we know right now is that the CPU wars are as involved as Picasso's Guernica.

Comments closed
    • jarder
    • 2 years ago

    Digitimes have a story about the 12nm Ryzens being launched in Feb 2018:
    [url<]http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20170927PD212.html?mod=3&q=RYZEN[/url<] according to: [quote<]sources at motherboard makers.[/quote<] Now that that's all settled, I've started saving and have marked my calendar already!

    • Kougar
    • 2 years ago

    Looks like 12nm Zen for 2018

    [url<]http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20170927PD212.html[/url<]

      • wingless
      • 2 years ago

      12nm Zen in Feb 2018 is definitely a good thing. It should tide us over until Zen 2 as long as the clocks get a significant bump. If we can overclock them to 4.5+Ghz we’ll be in zen paradise.

      • AMDisDEC
      • 2 years ago

      GF is scheduled to manufacture IBM’s 10 core z14 in 14HP, and the z14 clock speed is 5.2 GHz but I though GF was skipping 12nm to go straight to 10nm.

      Anyway, if IBM/GF can get 5.2GHz speed from 14HP, I wonder what clock speeds Zen 2 will get from 12-10nm.

        • Airmantharp
        • 2 years ago

        Power != x86.

          • Wirko
          • 2 years ago

          z != Power.

        • Zizy
        • 2 years ago

        That 14HP is one insane process for one insane customer.
        12nm is mostly just higher density 14nm and will not reach the same clocks, not even close. Even if Zen was as high clocking insane thingy as that z14.
        And GF is skipping 10nm going to 7nm. This 12nm is rename of 14nm update for the same marketing Samsung and TSMC are doing. It didn’t exist until similar Samsung and TSMC names came up.

          • freebird
          • 2 years ago

          I wouldn’t call the process NOR the customer insane… the cost of a z14 affords it to use a more expensive manufacturing technology.

          The process that IBM is using for the z14 is 14nm HP on SOI with FinFET. A totally different process from the 14nm LP FinFET process used for Ryzen and the majority of other chips.
          [url<]https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/14_nm_lithography_process[/url<] AMD last used 32nm SOI for Bulldozer and up through the FX-8000/9000 series of processors. They migrated their APUs over to 28nm non-FD-SOI in 2013. SOI (Silicon On Insulator) process allowed AMD to "keep up" with Intel even though they were a node level or two behind, except when they changed CPU designs and went with the now less than famous Bulldozer, Piledriver (where FX chips stopped), Steamroller & finally Excavator. These last two were only used by AMDs APUs and developed on bulk CMOS (non-SOI), I don't think they used FinFET technology either. SOI is a great tech, but also costs more and was expensive to keep developing, which AMD didn't have the resources to do, hence, why they spun off their manufacturing tech to Global Foundries. GF my be manufacturing the IBM z14/14 HP in East Fishskills NY and not FAB 8 in Malta NY where Ryzen supposedly manufactured. GF bought IBM's manufacturing process IP and IBM process team became GF employees in 2015 (mostly) I believe. [url<]https://www.extremetech.com/computing/192430-ibm-dumps-chip-unit-pays-globalfoundries-1-5-billion-to-take-the-business-off-its-hands[/url<] Someday, who knows maybe AMD will revisit SOI if cost, economics or performance dictates it...

          • AMDisDEC
          • 2 years ago

          The z14 is an amazing piece of silicon and IBM always leaves me regretting the day they decided to put out of the commodity market.
          OK, I’ve been confused many times when GF 12nm is mentioned. According to you it’s the same stripper in a new sexy outfit.

        • maxxcool
        • 2 years ago

        About 300mhz on average, maybe 500mhz for super picked silicon golden samples.

        AMD is now where Intel was 7 years ago. I will be very hard and then harder to gain large clock speed bumps going forward.

          • freebird
          • 2 years ago

          I would expect that AMD will be able to push the base clock up approx. 300Mhz and boost to 400Mhz, hopefully for a minimum. Otherwise, I don’t think it would be cost effective to build a new mask and costs associated with moving to 12nm. Hopefully, they will do some redesign of the infinity fabric to reduce latency also, but I don’t expect any significant design changes. Probably they are just “cleaning up” power and signaling paths to allow the chip to scale higher.

            • maxxcool
            • 2 years ago

            No way AMD gets (300mhz base+400mhz boost) 700mhz on a die shrink and respin. *maybe* on the center die cuts of the wafer for the exclusive cpu parts. Mainstream will not see that uplift.

            • freebird
            • 2 years ago

            who SAID 700MHz???? I said 300Mhz to the BASE clock speed and 400Mhz to the Max BOOST Speed over current designs, so I was basically agreeing with you???

            Let me show you how math works:
            [url<]https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113430&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Processors+-+Desktops-_-N82E16819113430&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImIPwwuXK1gIVylqGCh3vOgVKEAQYASABEgLzevD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds[/url<] Ryzen 1800X 3.6Ghz Base /4.0Ghz boost(Turbo) 1850x/2800x (whatever they call the 12nm) 3.6GHz+[b<]300Mhz[/b<]=3.9Ghz / 4.0Ghz+[b<]400Mhz[/b<] = 4.4 GHz boost(Turbo) Hopefully, it can all core OC to 4.4-4.5Ghz, since I can currently get my 1700 to 3.9 on all cores.

            • maxxcool
            • 2 years ago

            Wow .. nice OR and attitude.

        • tipoo
        • 2 years ago

        They’ve always been clocked well above what x86 efforts have on similarish fabs. Different pipeline optimization.

        • freebird
        • 2 years ago

        Those are two non-comparable manufacturing processes…

        See my response to Zizy above or below…(depending on how you sort your comment timelines ; )

    • PrincipalSkinner
    • 2 years ago

    Pyzen or Rinnacle, I’m getting one next year. Existing 2500k will be added to the my little museum of legendary CPUs alongside Pentium 100MHZ and Athlon 64 3000+.

      • Chrispy_
      • 2 years ago

      You have a museum of excellence too? By excellence, I assume you mean they were all overclocking champions. Here’s my museum (I actually sold the 2500K but it’s place in the museum is always open).

      Celeron 300a: 300MHz > 564MHz
      Duron 600: 600MHz > 1050MHz
      XP2500+: 1.83GHz > 2.4GHz
      Core2 E6400: 2.13GHz > 3.6GHz
      2500K: 3.3GHz > 4.8GHz

      And these were all daily drivers with air cooling on affordable boards and value RAM.

        • setaG_lliB
        • 2 years ago

        This makes me think of my old Pentium M 755, which I pushed to 2.72GHz.

        • PrincipalSkinner
        • 2 years ago

        Ah yes. Duron. I had a Duron 800 MHz or 900 MHz.
        Criteria for museum entry is :

        1) I owned it
        2) Was very happy with it.

        I had a Core2, can’t remember which one. Served me well but since I can’t remember it, it’s probably not museum worthy. 🙂

    • Chrispy_
    • 2 years ago

    Ouch.

    I know people were hoping this would be mid-2018. I know Zen1 is still holding up quite well against intel’s current price/performance strategy with CoffeeLake, but Intel is no slouch and AMD can’t afford to sit on their hineys for 18 months in the market.

      • srg86
      • 2 years ago

      Sounds like AMD from what I remember of previous generations.

      I remember with the Athlon (K7) and Athlon 64 (K8), AMD would make great leaps, but then would for the most part stagnate, with small insignificant improvements, mainly in clock speed and/or process bumps.

      If this is true though, the APUs will stay uninteresting until next year.

        • Chrispy_
        • 2 years ago

        Isn’t Raven Ridge imminent? (Q4 2017)

        4C/8T Zen(1) with up to 704 shaders, should be good for 50% improvements on the old A12-9800 which is already good enough for AAA gaming (1080p30 low-medium, mind you….)

      • K-L-Waster
      • 2 years ago

      Depends how good the “Performance Uplift” with Pinnacle Ridge is, but the risk of falling behind again is definitely there.

    • Rza79
    • 2 years ago

    One year ago RR seemed like an amazing chip to wait for but now that Intel’s i3 is going to be quad core, RR is going to lose a lot of it’s momentum and it’s still like 3-6 months away. AMD keeps reserving a huge portion of the chip for the GPU which has been bandwidth starved from its very first APU iteration.
    At least during ATI days, ATI tried to alleviate this issue with things like SidePort memory.

    • Zizy
    • 2 years ago

    Never heard of the site, doesn’t look too plausible leak either, and wtf is that additional k doing next to APU?

    • Unknown-Error
    • 2 years ago

    Bristol-Ridge (Excavator CPU + [b<]Polaris GPU[/b<])? What the hell is that? EDIT: Polaris is GCN Gen4 generation (Arctic Islands), while Carrizo, Bristol Ridge/Stoney Ridge have Gen3, Volcanic Islands .

      • DPete27
      • 2 years ago

      Don’t think about it too much. Bristol Ridge is a “do not buy”. Wait for Raven Ridge.

        • Unknown-Error
        • 2 years ago

        I totally agree to waiting for Raven-Ridge but who created these slides? Are they even real? Bristol-Ridge does not have Polaris AFAIK.

          • derFunkenstein
          • 2 years ago

          and that’s why you have to think about what GPU is in which APU. It makes me think it’s a fake. Not commenting whether it’s right or not, only that it is hard to verify with that obvious problem.

    • ronch
    • 2 years ago

    You gotta wonder why AMD would even bother to put out Bristol Ridge at this point when Raven Ridge is just around the corner. Well, there’s your answer.

      • Airmantharp
      • 2 years ago

      “Gotta ship something” seems to be their contemporary refrain.

    • mtruchado
    • 2 years ago

    usually the best releases are coming on February, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Raven Ridge comes out at that date. Anyway, I hope that my battered laptop equipped with an old core i5 last until raven ridge is there, I’m getting sick of intel IGPs and I don’t need a dedicated solution

    • Welch
    • 2 years ago

    I really hope this slide is BS if for no reason than it stating Raven Ridge is until 2018. I was really looking forward to some APU offerings well before Christmas. You know, that whole 2H promise AMD made……..

    • ronch
    • 2 years ago

    Well, those ’12nm’ Zen chips coming next year had better be good. Bump those clocks, Lisa.

      • Wirko
      • 2 years ago

      Lisa won’t listen but Scott might be able to hand out some unlock codes to TR Gold subscribers — for megahearts, cores, cache,SMT, etc.

        • ronch
        • 2 years ago

        If AMD bumps those clocks past 4 it’s gonna bring the mega[b<]hurts[/b<] to Intel.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 2 years ago

        [quote<]megahearts[/quote<] Maybe that's why Zen is stuck at ~4GHz right now. We need to unlock extra performance with the power of love and unity! Come on, everybody! Let's win this together!

          • just brew it!
          • 2 years ago

          A couple of my older (mid-2000s IIRC) Asus motherboards displayed the slogan “Rock Solid – Heart Touching” on the default POST screen.

        • ImSpartacus
        • 2 years ago

        Don’t you badmouth my SuBae.

        She will never let us down. $AMD to the moon!

        • AMDisDEC
        • 2 years ago

        Be happy with an upvote.

      • Airmantharp
      • 2 years ago

      Desktop clocks are important, but mobile and enterprise efficiency are even more important: let’s hope that they manage both.

        • K-L-Waster
        • 2 years ago

        This.

        Clockspeed makes enthusiasts happy. Power efficiency sells laptops and servers, which are where the money is.

    • Jigar
    • 2 years ago

    Meanwhile Zen refresh at 12nm is coming next year.

    • Mr Bill
    • 2 years ago

    Ruffles have ridges.

    • bjm
    • 2 years ago

    Zen 2 coming in 2019! Release in limited quantities begins Dec. 29th 11:30 PM, 2019. Full release in April, 2020.

    But hey, 2019!

    • Kougar
    • 2 years ago

    Imagine that, the same socket being relevant for five years.

    • mcarson09
    • 2 years ago

    2019 for Zen 2? Well AMD you better up your game and beat Intel!! I only buy winners!!!

      • chuckula
      • 2 years ago

      You fool! They already beat Intel with Zen 1!

      • ronch
      • 2 years ago

      All hail the man who only buys winners!!!

        • Mr Bill
        • 2 years ago

        [quote<][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJLeBM6-AaM<]All Hail Jay! All Hail Jay![/url<][/quote<]

      • rudimentary_lathe
      • 2 years ago

      Make Your PC Great Again!

        • mcarson09
        • 2 years ago

        You should get that put on a hat.

        • ronch
        • 2 years ago

        His PC has always been great. Remember, he only buys winners!

      • Techfire
      • 2 years ago

      The 1st Zens brought the fight back to intel. There were just one or two out of 12 benchmarks that the intel chips could best the zens in and those two were by a very small margin. Lets talk price, and p.c.i.e lanes too shall we? Intel’s days of plowing the fields are at an end my friend. Try not to think about this with emotions, just use logic and look at facts.

    • bhtooefr
    • 2 years ago

    So, if Vega 56 performs like a GTX 1070… the Raven Ridge’s Vega 11 should perform something like a GT 1030.

    That’s… honestly, for an IGP? Pretty respectable.

      • DeadOfKnight
      • 2 years ago

      Any word on if this chip will have HBM?

        • chuckula
        • 2 years ago

        Yes. No.

          • Redocbew
          • 2 years ago

          That’s two words.

            • jarder
            • 2 years ago

            “Yes” there is word, “No” it won’t have HBM.

        • Airmantharp
        • 2 years ago

        Wat?

        • ImSpartacus
        • 2 years ago

        It will not.

        DDR4 only for this go around.

        A stack of HBM would murder Raven Ridge’s lowend-friendly costs.

        Maybe in a year or two.

      • chuckula
      • 2 years ago

      If it clocks like a Vega 56 then it’s got roughly 2 Tflop of standard, single-precision shader power while the GT-1030 only has a little less than 1 Tflop.

      That’s based on the 1.4GHz peak frequency of Vega 56 though. If it clocks substantially lower to reduce power consumption then it might be in the 1 to 1.5 TFlop range.

        • homerdog
        • 2 years ago

        Memory bandwidth is king on IGP. I wonder how they plan to deal with that.

          • Waco
          • 2 years ago

          Integrated HBM! 🙂

          • cmrcmk
          • 2 years ago

          Fat L4 a la Crystal Well? That’s probably too much to hope for.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 2 years ago

            It’d definitely drive up prices to the point that you’re better off getting a low-end discrete GPU like an RX550 or GT 1030.

        • bhtooefr
        • 2 years ago

        I was basically looking at 11/56 of a GTX 1070’s units, FWIW, which is almost exactly a 1030 (although 1030 is also clocked lower than 1070, but I suspect this will be clocked lower, too) – game rather than compute performance.

        I mean, a Vega 56 claims 10.5 TFLOPS, vs. a GTX 1070’s 6.46 TFLOPS, yet they’re about equal in gaming workloads.

          • chuckula
          • 2 years ago

          I’m not even trying to predict gaming performance given all the variables. I can at least get a teraflop number from what we know of the full-size Vegas and educated guesses about expected clockspeeds.

          In the end I’m expecting it to be the usual asterisked product. Meaning it will have strong graphics* (* for an integrated solution).

            • bhtooefr
            • 2 years ago

            Yeah, and my 1030 estimate of gaming performance is probably on the high side, given that a 1030 has a hell of a lot more memory bandwidth than dual channel JEDEC-compliant DDR4 can give after the CPU’s done hitting RAM. (DDR4-2666 dual channel is 42.7 GB/s shared between CPU and IGP, 1030 gets 48 GB/s all to itself.)

            • derFunkenstein
            • 2 years ago

            I’ll predict gaming performance: lower than what you would expect from the GPU specs alone. Shared memory is always a pain, even in DDR4 land.

      • tipoo
      • 2 years ago

      If it matches the MX150 (laptop 1030) in a cheaper total package, definitely respectable.

    • DeadOfKnight
    • 2 years ago

    Raven Ridge for desktops is the most exciting chip coming from AMD, to me. Seems like it will be similar to Intel’s desktop Broadwell chips, maybe even better. If that’s the case and if the price is right, it will be just good enough for most people who aren’t interested in more than the most casual of games, and may compare favorably to Ryzen when paired with a discrete graphics card. This is where AMD’s vision of the “APU” might actually start to come together, IMHO.

      • Airmantharp
      • 2 years ago

      Honestly, Intel’s graphics are good enough for most casual games, and their CPU’s retain an IPC and clockspeed advantage making them the better gaming solution regardless of whose discrete GPU is paired up.

      AMD will have the advantage for APU gaming, most certainly, though.

        • lmc5b
        • 2 years ago

        Intel graphics are worse for gaming than you might think. The considerably worse driver support means some games have weird issues even if the raw performance is there. And don’t even get me started on frame times…

          • Airmantharp
          • 2 years ago

          I won’t disagree with the idea that Intel graphics is pretty bad- but for casual gaming, it’s certainly ‘good enough’.

          …coming from an enthusiast that games on both an overclocked quad-core SLI rig and an Ultrabook with Intel graphics.

      • Krogoth
      • 2 years ago

      That exactly the direction AMD RTG is going. The discrete GPU market is going to meet the same fate as discrete audio cards in the foreseeable future.

      This is the main reason why Nvidia has been trying to move away from discrete GPUs as their bread and butter for almost a decade now.

        • K-L-Waster
        • 2 years ago

        Depends what you consider “foreseeable” — I do think this is what will happen, but I don’t think it’s immediately imminent.

        I think APU / IGP performance needs to get competitive with cards in the GTX 1060 / RX570 range before it will happen. We’re not quite there.

          • SoundFX09
          • 2 years ago

          I think that’s a bit unrealistic for expectations.

          While iGPUs are showing improvements, they’re not at a significant Rate. I expect Raven Ridge to Offer RX 560 Performance, while containing the CPU Performance of a Ryzen 5 1400. Certainly good enough for E-Sports games at 1080p, but nothing too demanding.

          I also Expect AMD Freesync to remain Natively Supported, which would make Raven Ridge a very Valid Option with a 1080p 75hz Freesync Monitor. It would allow many people to get into PC Gaming without Breaking the Bank.

    • Demetri
    • 2 years ago

    This may end up being true, but they have Bristol Ridge listed as having a Polaris GPU, which makes me think it isn’t a legit AMD slide. Pretty sure those APUs are using older GCN 1.3 cores.

      • DeadOfKnight
      • 2 years ago

      You’re right. Good catch!

        • cynan
        • 2 years ago

        And “Performance Uplift” isn’t a dead giveaway? What kind of English is that?

          • just brew it!
          • 2 years ago

          It’s marketing-speak English. If you’ve ever worked in a big corporation you get used to seeing phrases like that on a daily basis.

          Edit: Not that I’m vouching for the legitimacy of the slide. Just saying that the use of the phrase “performance uplift” does not automatically disqualify it.

          • Mr Bill
          • 2 years ago

          AMD burns a hot link on the die and instant 700MHz uplift?

    • BaronMatrix
    • 2 years ago

    Interesting… I actually though that they would hold off on Rome for the desktop since 7nm chips are twice as much to design as 14nm…
    Raven Ridge will be a huge deal next year on AM4… MiniITX for 1080p gaming (Godavari could play with 512SPs) should be a nice product…

    They can probably get two refreshes out of 12nm LP so no need to jump to more cores (Rome will need 6 core CCXs for 48C)…

    And if they move TR to Ryzen dies they can maybe get 4.4GHz boost out of it…

      • Waco
      • 2 years ago

      [quote<]And if they move TR to Ryzen dies they can maybe get 4.4GHz boost out of it...[/quote<] Huh? Threadripper already uses Ryzen dies, that was the whole point. There's only one die to manufacture across the entire product stack.

      • chuckula
      • 2 years ago

      [quote<]And if they move TR to Ryzen dies they can maybe get 4.4GHz boost out of it... [/quote<] They can hardly get 4.1 GHz boost now and AMD went out of its way to state that Threadrippers only receive the top 5% of RyZen chips meaning even if you bought the absolute worst Threadripper that ever passed qualification you should have a cherry picked sample.

      • just brew it!
      • 2 years ago

      [quote<]since 7nm chips are twice as much to design as 14nm...[/quote<] Uhh... what? They'll be harder to [i<]manufacture[/i<]. Maybe even impossible, in the timeframes they're targeting. But they're not twice as hard to design.

        • Antimatter
        • 2 years ago

        I think he’s referring to costs.

        [url<]https://semiengineering.com/whats-after-finfets/[/url<]

        • ImSpartacus
        • 2 years ago

        Perhaps he was embellishing when he says “twice”, but 7nm [i<]will [/i<] be significantly harder to design for. All nodes are like that. It gets harder and harder to design these complex chips.

    • chuckula
    • 2 years ago

    If the slides are to be believed then next year is still “Summit Ridge Architecture” of the Zen we all know & love although it’s conceivable (but not guaranteed) that there will be moar coarz.

    On the APU side if the slide is accurate then forget about new APUs this year too. If memory serves the Vega 64 & 56 have (appropriately) 64 and 56 CUs enabled, respectively.

      • ImSpartacus
      • 2 years ago

      I doubt it.

      2018’s “Zen+” in Pinnacle Ridge will use 12nm to increase clocks and the refined platform will probably support better RAM speeds.

      Think about what AMD “needs” right now. They have plenty of cores, but single threaded performance is lacking and RAM compatibility is weak.

      AMD can only do so much. Keep your expectations in check.

        • chuckula
        • 2 years ago

        [quote<]AMD can only do so much. Keep your expectations in check.[/quote<] Pfft... since when has being realistic ever been a winning strategy!

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