Report: Wired reveals the first details about the next PlayStation

The folks over at Wired have been blessed with an exclusive look at the next-generation PlayStation, courtesy of an interview with Mark Cerny, the lead system architect for the system. As befits the mag's audience, Wired's article is a little fluffy, but we can gin the seeds of information and break it down, gerbil-style.

Here are the big reveals: the as-yet-officially-untitled fifth PlayStation will once again be based on a semi-custom chip from AMD, just like the PS4. Wired revealed that the new chip will use eight 7 nm Zen 2 cores mated to a GPU based on AMD's Radeon Navi family. The new system will also use a solid-state drive as its primary storage—as any computer released nowadays should.

The article makes much of the benefits of using an SSD in the next PlayStation. I don't have explain the benefits of flash storage to an audience of gerbils, but Wired doesn't touch on the real reason the next-gen system's I/O performance is so superior to that of its predecessor. The PlayStation 4 (and its Pro variant) use a USB-to-SATA bridge for their primary storage drive. Cerny claims that the next-gen system will use an SSD with "raw bandwidth higher than any SSD available for PCs" which is an interesting claim, but the 19-fold speedup he demonstrated to Wired could easily be achieved by simply hooking a SATA SSD up to the SoC using a direct SATA link.

No, that's not a picture of the PS5 controller. But it could be.

A big part of that massive performance uplift probably also comes from the leap forward in CPU hardware. The PS4 family's "Liverpool" SoC uses eight CPU cores based on AMD's Jaguar design. Jaguar, for those unfamiliar, was a low-power CPU core designed for use in net-tops, thin laptops, and even tablets. It has some surprising chops for what it was, but it was never really meant for hardcore gaming. The fact that the current-generation consoles have produced what they do using these chips is nothing short of impressive. We obviously haven't had a chance to see Zen 2 in action, but even moving up to extant Zen+ cores would be a gigantic step up from the old "cat" cores.

Another interesting tidbit about the hardware is that Cerny claims the Navi-based Radeon GPU will have some form of support for ray-tracing. That isn't completely surprising, as any modern graphics processor is in theory capable of that feat. As Nvidia recently showed when it added DXR support to Pascal GPUs, though, doing ray-traced graphics on GPUs is not especially practical without dedicated hardware to speed up the calculations. Everyone's waiting with bated breath to hear any announcement on that topic from AMD, but mum's the word so far.

Aside from graphics, Cerny talks about using ray-tracing for positional audio or line-of-sight tests in games. You could take that statement in one of two ways: either the next PlayStation has enough ray-tracing grunt to do graphics as well as ancillary functions; or he means to imply the new PlayStation will use ray-tracing for things other than graphics, since without serious hardware acceleration, ray-traced visuals are unlikely to be a big part of the upcoming system's appeal. Whatever the case, this point will become clearer when we learn more about Navi later this year.

On the topic of audio, Cerny says the upcoming system will include a dedicated 3D audio processor, an idea that recalls AMD's largely-ignored TrueAudio feature. The mention of specialized hardware is curious, given that AMD re-implemented TrueAudio in software as TrueAudio Next last year. Sony says that headphones will be the "gold standard" for the effect, which is also odd to us—surely a 5.1 setup would be the "gold standard" for positional audio? Still, as a bit of an audiophile myself, it's nice to see sound getting more attention, given that it is typically neglected in games in favor of visual presentation.

Besides the hardware details, Wired also ferreted out that the new system will accept physical media. Perhaps Sony is still shook by the utter failure of the PSP Go. Lots of people continue to prefer physical media, and not every market has high-speed internet access, so the feature makes enough sense. Perhaps the more exciting news that the next PlayStation will run PS4 games. That shouldn't come as a surprise to readers, but sadly that functionality wasn't official despite the apparent similarity between both systems' hardware. If you own a PSVR headset, it'll work with the new system too—although there's likely to be a new headset released eventually.

Cerny apparently insisted to Wired that this system is a revolution and not an evolution, but to us PC folks, it looks like a regular old system upgrade. Of course, just as new hardware allows PC gamers to pump up graphics settings, this new hardware should still alter the PlayStation gamers' experience pretty drastically when it launches next year.

Comments closed
    • Mat3
    • 4 months ago

    [quote<]since without serious hardware acceleration, ray-traced visuals are unlikely to be a big part of the upcoming system's appeal[/quote<] Did you miss Crytek's ray tracing demo using a Vega 56?

      • RAGEPRO
      • 4 months ago

      Naw, but I did I notice how it was pretty mediocre compared to, say, the Atomic Heart demo, heh.

    • DavidC1
    • 4 months ago

    [quote<]Cerny claims that the next-gen system will use an SSD with "raw bandwidth higher than any SSD available for PCs" which is an interesting claim, but the 19-fold speedup he demonstrated to Wired could easily be achieved by simply hooking a SATA SSD up to the SoC using a direct SATA link.[/quote<] Wrong. The 19x speed up is in actual loading time, and that's actually significant, unlike the maybe-best 2x gain we gained using SSDs for games. This is another advantage of having a platform that doesn't change for 4-6 years along with the hardware being worked on only being available in a single version. Top end PCs will still be faster, but a stable platform allows developers to take much better advantage of it. In particular, the massive gain by an SSD is something that won't be seen on the PC. DX12/Vulcan was supposedly the pedal to metal programming that was aimed at reducing that gap. Unfortunately, the reality is not that simple. I read an article that said to the metal programming is in some cases a worse idea because it makes game development harder. Again, that's because PCs don't have the stable platform advantage. This is a trade-off folks. Dedicated platforms are more efficient, but less flexible. Don't go PCMR(or CMR?) on me because both platforms, console and PCs have their advantages and disadvantages.

      • K-L-Waster
      • 4 months ago

      If you only gained 2x from going to SSD from HDD you got the wrong SSD my friend…

    • f0d
    • 4 months ago

    does the ps4 have a boost clock?
    i only ask because i have seen some rumors quoting boost clocks for the new playstation and to me that doesnt make sense

    i suspect ps5? will have a single clock speed for the cpu and no boost because (as far as i know anyways) programming a console that could possibly have multiple clock speeds at any time and be variable with temperature could really be annoying for that close to metal optimization that consoles are good at
    or i could be wrong and dont understand how console programming works at all

      • derFunkenstein
      • 4 months ago

      Only the PS4 Pro does. The PS4 Slim has a die-shrink SoC but it does not have the extra clock speed.

        • f0d
        • 4 months ago

        Does it?
        Just had a quick googling around and all info I have seen suggests a clock of 2.13ghz with no boost clock

          • derFunkenstein
          • 4 months ago

          Maybe we’re talking about different things.

          Stock PS4 ran at a max of 1.6 GHz. No “turbo” or “boost” clock.

          PS4 Pro runs at 2.13 GHz, like you said. It also has slightly bumped GPU speeds, too. Normally, for PS4 games that do not have PS4 Pro enhancements, the system down clocks to 1.6 again. But there’s an option in the settings to “boost” regular PS4 non-Pro-enhanced games and run the CPU and GPU at the Pro’s speed. In the case of the graphics, only the CUs that are functional in PS4 mode are still functional, they just run a little faster.

          So I guess you were asking if the PS4 had faster-than-base “boost” rates, and it doesn’t. But in some cases, software can be sped up if it doesn’t already know about the augmented hardware.

            • f0d
            • 4 months ago

            Exactly what I wanted to know, thanks
            I’m guessing then that the clocks in the rumours for the new CPU works in the same way then?
            Lower clocks for backwards compatibility and higher clocks for newly released ps5 (or whatever it’s called) games
            When boost clocks were mentioned in rumours I was thinking along the lines of PC style boost clocks that bounce up and down depending on voltage/temperature/core usage etc

            • derFunkenstein
            • 4 months ago

            I imagine there won’t be any PC-style boost in this unit. If it’s all one piece of silicon (or even if it’s a handful of chiplets), the graphics processor will probably be the limiting factor regardless.

            • Redocbew
            • 4 months ago

            If I had to guess I’d say that’s probably right. It seems like a needless complication to include PC-style boost clocks in a closed platform where the thermals and resources available are fixed.

    • superjawes
    • 4 months ago

    [quote<]Sony says that headphones will be the "gold standard" for the effect, which is also odd to us—surely a 5.1 setup would be the "gold standard" for positional audio?[/quote<]Debatable? Most of us only have two ears, and positional audio is basically a trick where our brains measure the differences between signals at each eardrum. So, the advantage of a 5.1 setup (wrt 3D audio) is that you have multiple locations for sound to originate. It's using physical locations to create a virtual audio landscape. OTOH, since the sound is still getting received by a 2-channel system, headphones give you the option of just creating the exact signals you want received at the listener's ears. I'm not a 3D audio expert, so I might be missing another advantage of 5.1, but I can also see headphones being a better target for Sony based on who they expect to use it. Headphones are relatively cheap, widely available, and basically plug-and-play. Crafting the tech for headphones could be a decision based purely on the numbers.

      • MrDweezil
      • 4 months ago

      Sure, I guess if you just only consider what reaches your ears. But if the force of the bass from some subwoofers can’t literally shatter my ribcage, is it even audio worth listening to?

        • Waco
        • 4 months ago

        I used to have a setup with a subwoofer volume-matched to my headphones for exactly that. 🙂 It got weird for midbass but for impact events and rumbles it was pretty effective.

      • Usacomp2k3
      • 4 months ago

      I don’t know that we have HRTF’s figured out that well. While we do “only have 2 ears” that doesn’t mean we hear in stereo.

        • superjawes
        • 4 months ago

        “Only having 2 ears” quite literally means we hear in stereo. Like I said, the positional aspect is a trick, basically post-processing done by our brains. And plenty of people have gotten HRTFs figured out “well enough”, which is why you’ve seen multiple implementations for positional audio for headphones. Heck, Razer have a system that purportedly mimics 7.1 audio, and that’s not game-specific.

      • Waco
      • 4 months ago

      Came here to comment on that as well. Headphones are absolutely better for positional audio than any speaker-based setup short of point sources in a huge array around you with infinite frequency response.

      • Wonders
      • 4 months ago

      True, accurate positional sound localization in humans only happens when you can turn your head. This works in favor of first-person games because you can turn your “head” in-game, so the disadvantages of headphones are minimized. However, for movies what you want is something like 5.1.

      Certain parts of waveforms are more essential for sound localization than others – namely, transients. Since it’s far more affordable to buy headphones with excellent transient response than speakers, headphones would generally be the superior choice for competitive first-person gaming. However, for some other genres, particularly cinematic games, 5.1 is probably more immersive – especially if you’re playing on a very large screen.

        • Mr Bill
        • 4 months ago

        An accute observation.
        [quote<]This works in favor of first-person games because you can turn your "head" in-game, so the disadvantages of headphones are minimized. [/quote<] It makes me respect the programmers at Blizzard even more. It really contributed to that immersive feel.

    • tipoo
    • 4 months ago

    I think most of us could have guessed the broad strokes of the specs the day before yesterday, but an all flash architecture is a pleasant surprise. They showed a 15s load on PS4 in a real game turn into an 0.8s load on the PS5, on a “reduced speed prototype”. That’s almost 20x faster, and should bring about a fundamental rethink of all the crap games do to hide load times (title screens, loadouts in lobbies, elevators, etc).

    Really, half of why I don’t pick up a controller that much anymore is load times, I’m not going to dive into a 15 minute play if half of that is going to be loading in.

    Ray tracing is an interesting byline but we don’t know if they mean dedicated hardware or a software compute effect, and that’s orders of magnitudes difference in how much rays you can apply.

    • cygnus1
    • 4 months ago

    [quote=”Zak the story author”<]On the topic of audio, Cerny says the upcoming system will include a dedicated 3D audio processor, an idea that recalls AMD's largely-ignored TrueAudio feature. The mention of specialized hardware is curious, given that AMD re-implemented TrueAudio in software as TrueAudio Next last year. Sony says that headphones will be the "gold standard" for the effect, which is also odd to us—surely a 5.1 setup would be the "gold standard" for positional audio? Still, as a bit of an audiophile myself, it's nice to see sound getting more attention, given that it is typically neglected in games in favor of visual presentation.[/quote<] If headphones are the gold standard for this new audio, my guess is something similar to Dolby Atmos (which is just the current version of some pretty old tech). Considering that Dolby Atmos can be fully handled in software on modern PC's, and they're going to have 8 Zen2 cores to work with, a dedicated processor for this seems really excessive.

    • albundy
    • 4 months ago

    sounds like it will cost a few grand, considering vega’s cards were hitting over a grand not too long ago. i can only imagine what navi will cost.

    “AMD’s Jaguar design” is it 64bit? [url<]https://retro.poromagia.com/media/images/products/2018/03/Atari-Jaguar-Console-1-170119.JPG[/url<]

      • Anonymous Coward
      • 4 months ago

      I don’t see why we’d have to assume the GPU will be especially expensive, but 8 full desktop cores would seem to represent a major swing towards CPU resources, unless the GPU really turns out to be something that sells for big bucks like you speak of.

      AMD’s glue could come in handy here. I guess they could use a bog-standard CPU module and configure it for low base clocks with a decent turbo, keep the “power IO” reasonable. Sony and MS could each order their own custom module containing the GPU and IO to provide their differentiation.

        • Peldor
        • 4 months ago

        It’ll be a moderate CPU and a moderate GPU by PC standards. Maybe a 65 W CPU and 150 W GPU, but likely a cut below that. That’s still hugely faster than not-so-current gen.

          • Anonymous Coward
          • 4 months ago

          Dunno that 8 cores of modern Ryzen will count as [i<]moderate[/i<]. Even if they cap the CPU chiplet at lets say 45W, its going to run at over 50% of the top clocks available in the Ryzen universe and turbo could reach easily into the 4ghz range. I think this puts PS5 in a better relative position than when PS4 was launched... same cores as on PC, same number of them, and not really so much slower clocked either. And no I don't get all excited about 12 cores or whatever, thats not generally so useful.

            • Ikepuska
            • 4 months ago

            I honestly question if they will allow it to turbo at all. There are sound system design reasons why consoles don’t use boost clocks for anything. That may change, but having a rock solid utterly predictable clock does enable some optimizations that aren’t available to a system that is using some form of boosting. It’s not impossible they will go the boost route, but it’s not guaranteed either. I’ll be curious to see if they do choose to do so.

            As an aside another reason they often don’t do boost is because it allows them to create a much more dialed in thermal solution. They pick a target temp, and since the vast majority of games will peg the resources at about 90+ after a year or two, they design it for only cooling the system enough to keep it at that temp. Since a lot of gamers play for long stretches on console, they can account for heatsoak and all the other variables as well without having to over-spec thermals. I mean honestly look at the thermals of any console after about 3 hours of gaming on a modern game, and you will definitely see very different temps than we usually target with PC gaming. But without a boost clock, there’s no benefit to cooler temps so they don’t design for it. (Aside from longevity, but honestly I’ve had both a launch PS4 and launch PS3 and they both are still in working order. There are some early failures but I’m pretty sure I remember reading that premature failure because of thermals isn’t even in the top 3 failure modes)

            • Anonymous Coward
            • 4 months ago

            Good point that consoles should behave predictably, but it seems like it would be well within their abilities to define predictable boosting modes.

      • tipoo
      • 4 months ago

      Hm? Architecture doesn’t tell you cost at all. Navi is supposedly launching mid end first. I imagine pretty close to the 2020 equivalent of the PS4 GPU cost.

        • Redocbew
        • 4 months ago

        Yeah, trying to predict cost of a console by looking at desktop GPUs isn’t likely to be very useful. Even if mining were not a thing, and there was healthy competition to help keep pricing in check, then you’re still not really looking at the same products.

    • DPete27
    • 4 months ago

    [quote<]The PlayStation 4 (and its Pro variant) use a USB-to-SATA bridge for their primary storage drive.[/quote<] YUCK!!! Was it USB2.0?

      • tipoo
      • 4 months ago

      That’s why even the SATA III Pro didn’t benefit as much from SSDs as it should, only about 30% when they’d be way faster on PC.

        • Waco
        • 4 months ago

        What a bizarre cost-cutting measure.

          • RAGEPRO
          • 4 months ago

          What’s really confusing is that the Marvell SoC that they used for the “chipset” of the PS4 [i<]has SATA[/i<]. They used that for the Blu-Ray drive instead of switching things around and putting the internal storage on SATA and the Blu-Ray drive on USB-to-SATA.

            • Waco
            • 4 months ago

            That is just odd. The Blu-Ray drive is likely not really limited by USB overhead where HDDs and very much so SSDs are.

            • tipoo
            • 4 months ago

            As I understand this is part of driving all the main disk traffic through the security system, some derivative of ARM TrustZone maybe. Then add in that the ARM IO processor was so weak it has to use the main APU for standby downloads and then the overhead of the USB interface and you end up with much slimmer SSD benefits than they should ever have.

            [url<]https://cturt.github.io/ps4-2.html[/url<]

      • ClickClick5
      • 4 months ago

      Not 2.0, but 3.0. Well the original 3.0 (or whatever name it is now), about 120MB/s tops. So people with SSDs only saw improvements in games that favored quick random lookups. Games that read data in linear large blocks saw little improvement, as both a modern 7200RPM drive and an SSD can handle 120MB/s sustained.

      EDIT: If it was 2.0, lol….oh my that would hurt. Both in installing and in loading 😀 Say 42 min or so to install a 50GB game!

        • tipoo
        • 4 months ago

        I think more than raw throughput, the CPU load USB adds to the mix overburdened the already weak ARM IO processor, through which all SATA traffic had to go for TrustZone. Even the games that benefited the most from SSDs did so to a far lesser degree than they should have.

        Cerny mentions as much in his talk with Wired, something in the IO stack meant you only got a 30% improvement with SSDs, where their demo with the PS5 showed nearly 20x.

        I hope the PS5 has a decently powerful ARM subsystem that can take even more of the load off the main cores.

    • leor
    • 4 months ago

    Take my money!

    • Ushio01
    • 4 months ago

    Launch it without a optical disc player so it can be cheaper but with an optional add-on disc player for those who want BC for their physical copies of PS4 games.

    Yes I know not everyone has a good internet connection but the majority of new physical releases are either just a launcher on the disc or require multi-gig day one patches anyway now.

      • DeadOfKnight
      • 4 months ago

      While a good idea in theory, these types of accessories always end up overpriced. I would rather it be included than feel ripped off later on.

      • TurtlePerson2
      • 4 months ago

      It probably adds $1-2 of cost for a optical disc drive and it makes it a lot more versatile. It’s not just about the games and the backward compatibility of PS4 games, it’s also about Blu-Rays and DVDs. For most people, these boxes also function as their movie player and most people have a lot of physical video media that they’re going to want to keep using.

        • Zizy
        • 4 months ago

        If it was just 1-2$ then I would agree, but it is not that cheap unfortunately – estimated to be about 20$ iirc (no idea about UHD, that could be even more). It doesn’t seem much, but this is about 10% of current X1S sales price = quite a lot. When you also take in account it takes a lot of volume which could be used for better cooling or smaller box or cheaper cooling/box, well, it doesn’t seem such a MUST HAVE part anymore.

        I would prefer if MS and Sony both ditch OD in favor of a small USB connected box they sell as an extra for ~50$ (and put it in some bundles). They could ditch gamepads too, another bit of money saved for those that already have that stuff.

    • sweatshopking
    • 4 months ago

    xbox one S all digital edition announced: [url<]https://youtu.be/yBDSMNE3_oQ[/url<]

      • MrDweezil
      • 4 months ago

      I don’t have a problem with the concept, but they missed the mark on price. An optical drive might not actually add all that much to the cost of the thing, but I think they need to have a price gap of $100 between the drive-less model and the standard one if they’re going to convince any significant number of people to make the sacrifice. If they do it right, they should make up the loss in Game Pass subscriptions. At $250, its just not very compelling.

        • sweatshopking
        • 4 months ago

        I largely agree. it’s only 50 bucks cheaper, and while i’d buy that just because i think discs are annoying, i know many won’t.

        • superjawes
        • 4 months ago

        It actually seems like the Xbox One S (w/ optical) is going for $250 with bundles right now, so I was going to say the same thing. I actually LOVE the idea of a digital-only option (as an option), but they’re killing themselves with the price.

        Maybe, [i<]maybe[/i<], it could work if they did a super-slim model or added more onboard storage, but it's almost DOA as-is.

          • LostCat
          • 4 months ago

          I’d buy it if I didn’t already have an X1X. I don’t really use the blu-ray drive for anything. I had a game on BD that someone gave me for a bday present, but that’s it.

          • DPete27
          • 4 months ago

          How are they supposed to do any better on price? They’re already selling the consoles basically @ cost, so removing a $50 Blu-Ray drive is only ever going to shave a maximum of $50 off the price tag.

            • superjawes
            • 4 months ago

            I get that, but the optical version literally does everything that the digital one does (and more), and sale prices are bringing the price of the optical version down to the digital’s price…why would anyone buy the digital version? Selling at a loss is better than not selling at all.

            And as I think about it, MS can absolutely sell this at a loss. Their digital-only customers will only be able to buy games directly from MS (more or less). That easily gets them in the door for other Xbox products, making them long-term customers for services like Xbox Live Gold and Xbox Game Pass.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 4 months ago

      Nice to see that they didn’t lose any of the price. Xbox One S bundles have been $250 US for a while now.

      • Shobai
      • 4 months ago

      I may be an odd case, but this is less interesting to me than the disc-ful console.

      I don’t have any XBone games, but I bought an S to play 4k Blurry discs – I had a dedicated Sony player that was incredibly flaky, returned it and bought the S and haven’t had any issues since.

      I was surprised to find that start up time was basically a wash between the two (no standby in either case) as I thought the S would take much longer. Of course any time there’s a system update it’s a bit of any issue (slow ‘net speeds and all) if I just want to pop in a disc and go.

    • blargh4
    • 4 months ago

    Happy to hear next generation games won’t have to be coded for CPUs that would be embarrass a low-end smartphone, but I’m surprised they stuffed 8 full Zen2 cores in there. Very curious how much this thing is gonna cost – seems like delivering a generational upgrade over the XBone X on the GPU side is going to take some serious silicon too. Are consoles gonna follow smartphones and move way upmarket?

      • blastdoor
      • 4 months ago

      Remember that the 2013 APU was built on a 28nm process.

      I would have been surprised if it were less than 8 cores. I bet that this will be the same 8 core chiplet that AMD uses for everything. I also bet the Navi chip is identical to what is used in other products. The thing that will make this semi-custom is the 14 nm I/O chip.

      • Anonymous Coward
      • 4 months ago

      I’m going to have to call BS on the low-end smartphone being faster. I use ARM servers for stuff I wrote myself, this is admittedly script execution, but I have also witnessed gcc on these ARM servers taking the age of the earth (I get bored and do something else) … these ARM servers have about 1/4 the per-core throughput compared to modern-ish Xeon servers (2.3ghz is a common base clock, maybe they hit 3.0 on turbo). I would bet on Jaguar/Bobcat/Atom/whatever over any phone chip this side of an Apple CPU.

      • tipoo
      • 4 months ago

      By happy coincidence or planning, a Ryzen core on 7nm is approximately the size of a Jaguar core on 28nm. So the APU isn’t necessarily larger than the PS4s was at launch.

    • notfred
    • 4 months ago

    [quote<]Sony says that headphones will be the "gold standard" for the effect, which is also odd to us—surely a 5.1 setup would be the "gold standard" for positional audio?[/quote<] I wonder if they mean something like the old Aureal A3D 2.0 on the Vortex 2? It did Head Related Transfer Function calculations and could make sounds appear above and below you - something not possible with a standard 5.1 setup

      • DragonDaddyBear
      • 4 months ago

      Can’t Dolby Atmos could do it, or something similar?

        • RAGEPRO
        • 4 months ago

        Atmos is basically HRTF, yes, although it’s a little silly because proper HRTF requires the use of a model that is at least somewhat close to the shape of your head, so trying to use a generalized model for everyone is never going to work all that well.

        But yeah, lots of games do HRTF. Older enthusiasts talk about Aureal A3D and Creative EAX as if they’re long-lost technology but they were just hardware accelerators for the same technology built into every sound engine package nowadays. It’s all done in software.

      • LostCat
      • 4 months ago

      I wouldn’t think 5.1 has been a gold standard since Atmos launched.

    • ronch
    • 4 months ago

    If I may hazard a guess, I think it’ll be called the PlayStation 5.

    Anyway, it’s really great to see some official word that it’ll use Zen. Zen is truly a winner for AMD. Jerry is mighty proud.

      • Krogoth
      • 4 months ago

      Sony might call it something else to avoid brand fatigue.

        • Blytz
        • 4 months ago

        PSV

        • Anonymous Coward
        • 4 months ago

        Oh yeah, I hear Apple is going to rename themselves so they’re all new and fresh.

          • ronch
          • 4 months ago

          How about Fruit, Inc.

            • JustAnEngineer
            • 4 months ago

            [quote=”Ronch”<] Fruit, Inc. [/quote<] [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNa4EMUWnAc[/url<]

      • psuedonymous
      • 4 months ago

      As long as they don’t follow the modern trend and call it just the “PlayStation”. I’d even accept “Play5tation” over that.

        • DeadOfKnight
        • 4 months ago

        PlayStation 6

        “PS4 Pro was #5”

        • Anonymous Coward
        • 4 months ago

        It will be [i<]Playstation 1[/i<] obviously.

          • ronch
          • 4 months ago

          You meant PlayStation One, right?

        • ronch
        • 4 months ago

        Play5tation. Clever.

      • freebird
      • 4 months ago

      Hey Jerry, Real women outsource FABs. 😉

    • chuckula
    • 4 months ago

    I just can’t wait for the over the top hyperbole from Sony about how this game console will change the world and cure cancer!

    The hype train is already getting warmed up and we are over a year from launch.

      • JustAnEngineer
      • 4 months ago

      [quote=”Chuckula”<] ...change the world and cure cancer! [/quote<] [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIOYoZGoXsw[/url<] [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4EEzhX04XU&t=0m42s[/url<] [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4EEzhX04XU&t=2m27s[/url<]

    • derFunkenstein
    • 4 months ago

    [quote<]the new system will accept physical media[/quote<] It has to. We haven't quite seen just yet what happens to a hardware platform after it's retired, and unlike PC digital stores, each PlayStation generation does ultimately get retired. Does that store stay up for all time? Or does it get culled after the platform has been unavailable for 3, 5, or 10 years? The first platform to experience this was the Wii, and Nintendo has taken that store down. If you owned stuff on WiiWare, you can no longer access it, even if it was transferred to a Wii U. That's not full games still. I think the first console platform for that is the Xbox 360 and PS3, and for now those stores are still up. What happens when platform holders can't sell stuff on the platform any longer, but Sony and Microsoft don't want to spend money to maintain it, either? Until that question is answered, a digital-only console (even the rumored Xbox One coming soon) is a big nope IMO.

      • Krogoth
      • 4 months ago

      Physical distribution is still a requirement for the gaming console demographic. Quad-layered BD provides ample capacity for future content even if it needs to be multi-disc.

      Digital distribution for 100GiB+ installations is still awkward for those who do not have cheap or easy access to 50Mbps+ internet connectivity. The bulk of the gaming console demographic still falls under this umbrella.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 4 months ago

        Yes, everybody knows that houses with console gamers can only use dial-up. What a moronic comment.

        EVERY game on that has a physical release consoles is also available digitally. Quantum Break is on Xbox Games Pass and it’s like 90 GB to download.

          • Krogoth
          • 4 months ago

          Take a chill pill mate.

          I’m just saying that physical distribution is still a requirement in the console world for marketing reasons. I didn’t imply or suggest that digital distribution was impossible or non-existent for current library of PS4, Xbox One and Nintendo Switch titles let alone future platforms.

        • Usacomp2k3
        • 4 months ago

        I agree with everything except that last sentence. That is very naive. I would say the bulk has high speed internet.

          • Krogoth
          • 4 months ago

          Hate to burst your bubble, but 50Mbps+ service still isn’t commonplace outside of wonder spots (Scandinavian, South Korea, Japan) and metropolitan areas. Especially in North America and [b<]Australia[/b<]. 100GiB+ installations with digital distribution will take hours with a modest 25Mbps connection or less. This is awkward and inconvenient for the gaming console demographics who tend to be under such a predicament.

            • Usacomp2k3
            • 4 months ago

            It is in pretty much every urban area in the country. The slowest I can get is 100mpbs at my house. Unless you are the ~20% of people that don’t live in the city or burbs, you have access to >=50mbps internet.

            EDIT: Actually it’s 90%
            “10 percent of all Americans (34 million people) lack access to 25 Mbps/3 Mbps service. ” [url<]https://www.fcc.gov/reports-research/reports/broadband-progress-reports/2016-broadband-progress-report[/url<]

            • Krogoth
            • 4 months ago

            That chart is being generous at best. It is a lot worst outside of the major metro areas and coastal states.

            50Mbps+ service also tends to go far beyond the budget for most people in the gaming console crowd. Hopefully, 5G adoption will buckle that trend.

            • Usacomp2k3
            • 4 months ago

            Where are you getting your “facts” from? Come on man, be realistic.

            • Beahmont
            • 4 months ago

            Well it’s not like the FCC is a trustworthy source on this either. In fact the FCC has been ripped a new one several times by Congress because it’s coverage maps are notoriously inaccurate.

            • Krogoth
            • 4 months ago

            I work in an industry where I deal with clients from all over the country (rural, suburban, urban) and have to test internet connection to see if they can use our services without issues. That chart is just being optimistic at best.

            Granted, the scene is much better then a decade ago.

            • RAGEPRO
            • 4 months ago

            Krogoth was just talking about 50 megabit service and said 25 megabit isn’t fast enough. Your 10% number isn’t very interesting.

            Some half of Americans live in the suburbs and about 20% live in “purely rural” areas. The area where I live is considered sub-urban and I don’t have any option faster than 60 Mbps—and that’s my ONLY broadband option, at a whopping $99/month.

            Some of my friends live in “partly rural” areas and a couple live in “purely rural” areas. Most of them only have access to cellular (3G, not LTE) or satellite service.

            This is in the United States, one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

            Maybe take a step back and consider your point of view.

            • Usacomp2k3
            • 4 months ago

            You are disagreeing with the numbers presented by the FCC that are 3+ years old?

            • RAGEPRO
            • 4 months ago

            I’m not disagreeing with the numbers, I’m disagreeing with your presentation of them. You moved the goalposts (50 Mbps -> 25 Mbps) and then produced an arbitrary number that wasn’t relevant even after the goalposts were moved.

            • Usacomp2k3
            • 4 months ago

            I wasn’t intentionally moving goalposts. I just adjusted to the numbers that were presented by that particular report (which I didn’t have when I made my post, hence the addition of the EDIT to reflect the change after posting).

            • roncat
            • 4 months ago

            The point is the data lists “access to” not “actual”. I have access to Filet Mignon every day, but I can afford to enjoy it a couple times a year. Big difference.

            Is there a chart showing what real world speed people are buying/getting?

            • Redocbew
            • 4 months ago

            Agreed, but the 50 megabit line in the sand isn’t very useful either. 100GB sounds a bit large for the average size of a AAA game install, but it’d take hours to download at that speed also.

            As you said, the US isn’t a great example for the proliferation of broadband in any case. It’s been widely known for years that most of the biggest ISPs here are quite expensive for the amount of bandwidth you get compared to some other countries in the world.

            • LostCat
            • 4 months ago

            I love my 50mb. I don’t need more, and I don’t want less. And I download games all the time.

            • freebird
            • 4 months ago

            Apparently, you didn’t read about the disagreement with the FCC’s assessment…

            FCC: 25M Americans Lack Broadband, Microsoft: It’s 162M
            [url<]https://www.pcmag.com/news/367685/fcc-25m-americans-lack-broadband-microsoft-its-162m[/url<] Don't know that I trust either very much, but I agree with Krogoth on this one... even with high speeds available, many console buyers may not be using 50+ Mbps speeds.

            • Glorious
            • 4 months ago

            It took roughly 90 minutes for me to install RDR2 with a disk.

            Obviously if you have no other choice such is life, but my internet connection is literally faster than the Ps4’s blu-ray drive even optimally, and the disk is just a device you download from these days anyway.

            • f0d
            • 4 months ago

            yep aussie here and some areas still have shockingly low speeds outside of city areas
            heck even areas that are not too far away from the city get horrible speeds because of low quality and degraded copper cables
            some aussies get some good speeds though – those that have the “good” nbn are getting some great download speeds and connection quality

        • MrDweezil
        • 4 months ago

        The last physical PC game I bought was WoW 15 years ago, I don’t know why some think the console people live on a different planet. I also game on an Xbox and I’d happily never buy a disc again. Any 360 games I own digitally just add themselves to my library as back compat support expands without me having to rummage around in my basement for old physical copies.

        • gamerguy76
        • 4 months ago

        Not sure where you guys live, but I have 100 mbps however I’m capped at 1tb per month. Total bullshit. My family hits this cap all the time. So downloading games that are 100gb is not ideal for us.

          • derFunkenstein
          • 4 months ago

          The current console generation just isn’t kind to you even WITH optical media, and the next will be even worse. Every game I get on disc requires multi-GB downloads alongside whatever gets copied from the disc. PC gaming is not kind to you because you can’t easily get a lot of games on disc these days. Data caps are total crap, for sure.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 months ago

          That sucks. I run a plex server for my family and my use is into multiple terabytes a month. Wouldn’t like a cap at all.

          • maxxcool
          • 4 months ago

          WOW .. i only burn through 32GB of data per day when downloading full seasons of stuff .. from alternative sources.

            • nanoflower
            • 4 months ago

            Games tend to be much larger than shows/movies. So watching a show even at 4K from Netflix won’t be the same as downloading anything other than the smaller Indie games since most games seem to take up at least 6 gigabytes (looking through my list). Many take up tens of gigabytes and so can easily eat into any monthly bandwidth usage limit like the 1TB limit that seems to be quite common with Cox and Comcast using it. Even AT&T uses the 1TB/month limit but gives you ways around it (like Internet and TV service from them gives you ‘unlimited’ usage.)

        • NovusBogus
        • 4 months ago

        Credit where it’s due, console buyers thus far haven’t been foolish enough to tether themselves to The Matrix like the PC crowd. Their hardware companies are better at cracking skulls to protect the ecosystem than ours, too. Pity about the long-term legacy compatibility issue, but at least the last few console generations will outlive the open internet.

      • sweatshopking
      • 4 months ago

      looks like they have another 5 years roughly of discs, then they’re dead.

      [url<]https://www.statista.com/statistics/190225/digital-and-physical-game-sales-in-the-us-since-2009/[/url<] personally, i haven't purchased a disc game in literally a decade and i wouldn't consider it. the issues of me losing a disc, scratching a disc, having to move around a disc, put it in the machine etc. are FAR worse than the risk of maybe one day i'd have to pick up a cheap game i used to own at some point. you're basically arguing against steam and its entire business model which seems plenty popular.

        • Krogoth
        • 4 months ago

        Gaming consoles are the only reason physical media distribution in the gaming world still has a presence. It is pretty much dead in the PC gaming space since the average PC gamer is likely to have a beefer connection if it is available. They also have easier access to bulk storage and off-line back-up schemes which makes downloads more of an one-time affair.

        Without modding, gaming consoles aren’t as fortunate. It is quite possible that a game console user will have to decide what to keep and how to purge to make room on their unit.

          • sweatshopking
          • 4 months ago

          I don’t think people are generally buying internet based on console VS pc gaming.

          Yes, consoles are the only ones buying discs. It’ll end as well.

            • Glorious
            • 4 months ago

            No only big city big bandwidth people are PC gamers.

            High ping hicks from the sticks use consoles.

            THE ABSOLUTE STATE

          • MrDweezil
          • 4 months ago

          [quote<]They also have easier access to bulk storage and off-line back-up schemes which makes downloads more of an one-time affair. Without modding, gaming consoles aren't as fortunate. It is quite possible that a game console user will have to decide what to keep and how to purge to make room on their unit.[/quote<] Both PS4 and Xbox support installing games to external USB3 storage devices, no modding necessary.

            • Glorious
            • 4 months ago

            I have a 2tb external drive on my ps4 full of games…but my eyes and life deceive once again–krogoth spake otherwise.

            • Krogoth
            • 4 months ago

            That’s a recent development. Prior to the Xbox One/PS4, you had resort to mods to get third-party storage to work.

            • Redocbew
            • 4 months ago

            “recent” as in several years ago?

        • NovusBogus
        • 4 months ago

        I used to buy AAA games on disc, until it became clear that the discs were just tokens for a digital download service that wouldn’t let me keep an offline copy.

        Then I quit buying AAAs.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 4 months ago

        To your last sentence, no, I’m not. I’m arguing against limited-life stores, which I think console stores are. With Steam at least I can mod it or patch it to run on modern systems and it’ll be around for basically ever. On console, once the store is down, you better hope your archived copy lasts you all eternity.

          • Krogoth
          • 4 months ago

          That’s just assuming that there isn’t some DRM scheme that the software uses which later becomes broken down the road (activation/phone home servers shut down).

        • jihadjoe
        • 4 months ago

        Only in the US. Japan has much better internet than most US cities and yet physical game sales outnumber digital almost 10:1. It’s a matter of ‘owning’ the game, having right of resale, and saying no to DRM, and the folks have voted with their wallets.

        [url<]https://gematsu.com/2019/02/famitsu-2018-japan-video-game-sales-report[/url<] Splatoon 2 for example: [quote<]Splatoon 2 Platform: Switch Publisher: Nintendo Release Date: July 21, 2017 Estimated Physical Sales: 1,122,324 Estimated Digital Sales: 68,630 Combined Estimated Physical and Digital Sales: 1,190,954[/quote<] I've also found that in most Asian countries the physical game is actually cheaper than getting a digital copy on Steam, and they also come with a Steam code that you can redeem to get a digital download if the disc is ever misplaced or scratched. Literally the best of both worlds.

      • LostCat
      • 4 months ago

      On a related note, MS is still selling and improving games from the Xbox and 360 platforms, so it’s a different story than the original Playstation or whatever.
      [url<]https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-adds-ninja-gaiden-ii-to-xbox-one-backward-compatibility-with-enhancements[/url<] We'll see if Sony follows suit later on, it seems like they might be gearing up to but I don't really know.

      • DeadOfKnight
      • 4 months ago

      Apparently NES still gets new releases every year. That’s crazy and kind of awesome.

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