The TR Podcast 125: The Radeon vs. GeForce brouhaha comes home for Christmas

The Tech Report Podcast Date: December 16, 2012

Time: 1:22:45

Hosted by Jordan Drake

Co-Hosts: Scott Wasson and Geoff Gasior

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Show notes

We kick off the last episode of 2012 with a sneak preview of our upcoming collaborative opus: the How to build a PC guide and video. Then, Valve’s proposed Linux living room gaming PC has us perplexed, and we share our Christmas gift suggestions for 2012. Finally, Scott breaks down the complete saga of our Radeon vs. GeForce brouhaha, which unfolded over three successive articles last week. And that’s it! Thanks for an amazing 2012, and here’s to an exciting 2013.

Send in listener mail, and we’ll answer on the podcast. – jdrake@techreport.com

Follow us on Twitter – ScottJordanGeoffCyrilThe Tech Report

Tech discussion:

That’s all, folks! We’ll see you on the next episode in 2013.

Comments closed
    • tarateh00aa
    • 7 years ago
    • evelynnx0931
    • 7 years ago
    • kathyes7309
    • 7 years ago
    • staceymon888i
    • 7 years ago
    • chelsie09xmarie
    • 7 years ago
    • ashleyw2934x
    • 7 years ago
    • stacey1x0pp
    • 7 years ago
    • Stickmansam
    • 7 years ago

    In response to the “wacky” things, would it be possible to always have high speed videos for the game/GPU reviews if that would not be too time consuming. I think a 60fps video may help too for those of us still on 60hz screens. I understand that there is a lot of people with high end hardware but us with the cheaper stuff still want to see how the latency effects lower fps gaming. This may factor into budget considerations in choosing cards. My take on the high speed video was that AMD had fewer but more pronounced latency spikes and Nvidia had more but less pronounced spikes. I did end up showing the video to a non-tech folk and the result was that they could not tell the difference the two videos until I showed them the graph and explained it. They then found similar results to mine. Is it possible to have future videos without the name of the cards in each side (shown below the video or in a spoiler like thing) and show them before the graph? Another person I showed the video to (without showing the graph and having the names of the cards covered up) found that while both side had latency issues, he observed there to be more lag on the right side when I asked if he noticed any differences between the two sides of the video. He actually considered the left side more playable due to the longer ‘lag’ which seemed to have more time between ‘lag’ than the right side where he considered there to be more ‘ lag’ that was distracting and more easily noticeable (in his opinion). So despite the latency results, the playability of the cards still appears to be quite a subjective matter. Upon showing him the graph and explaining what frame latency was, his response was “so, I still like the left side better’. He has no opinions upon brand selection as far as I know and had not read the article before. Regardless, I had the stuff covered up and so on and so forth to ensure no bias (did not take expensive college courses on this to not rmbr anything regarding experiments =P )

    I am wondering about how power tune and the boost bios affect the frame latency. This may seem be an issue that could be enlightening. It be easier to test with say a 7870 vs a 660 I think or just turning off the boost bios (Not sure if possible) I really appreciated the Windows 7 to Windows 8 comparison, less reason to upgrade. Has AMD said anything regarding the results you found?

    Maybe next time not bundle those of us with concerns with those you consider trolls/skills/fanboys =P It’s just hard to understand something that totally changes your perspective in things and that always take a bit more convincing. What did confuse me was most sites had a higher FPS count for the 7950 than the 660ti. Of course the other sites did not test for frame latency but in fps, the 7950 you tested did exhibit lower fps than the 660ti. The follow up article with the removal of AC3 helped clear that out. Would it also be possible to show for both sides, removing an obviously biased game out of a graph. Eg 1 graph for overall and 1 graph excluding nvidia biased game and 1 graph excluding AMD biased game.

    I also like the graph with the line that curves up to show the latency. Is it possible to have one of those with all the games for each card E.g. an AMD one with all the game shown in different colours and a Nvidia one with same thing and a final one showing comparison between the two cards and maybe two more that exclude the based games.

    EDIT: Changed the paragraph formating

    EDIT 2: Foudn this example of label less pics and stuffs that I like [url<]http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ipad-mini-benchmark-review,3367-5.html[/url<]

      • aspect
      • 7 years ago

      The 60hz range isn’t even about high end hardware, even thousand dollar ips monitors are not higher than 75hz. Monitors don’t come higher than 60-75hz unless they are competitive gaming oriented monitors or 3D capable which support 100-120hz.

    • John59
    • 7 years ago

    An interesting podcast as normal but I am somewhat dissapointed in the lack of knowledge by Scott and co regarding Steam on Linux. I understand that the Tech Report is predominantly a Windows shop but the basic lack of understanding regarding Open GL on Linux is quite shocking compared to publications such as anandtech.

    Scott, I thing you should be aware that both Nvidia and AMD regularly release drivers for Linux and the quality of assets that can be produced is comparable to Direct 3D in Direct X. I don’t know where you get this 720P nonsense regarding what is possible using Steam on Linux. If anything there is evidence that there is better performance under Linux using the source engine than Windows.

    Jordan opened with the story of Steam big picture and the Steam box coming but failed to talk about any salient points. I would have thought that a few minutes of research beforehand might have been appropriate here. Jordan sounded so lost as what to say it was not even funny.

    The Linux beta is going mainstream this week, you can check out the list of supported games:

    [url<]https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8495-OKZC-0159[/url<] [url<]http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/12/steam-linux-to-launch-open-beta-next-week[/url<] Regarding porting games to Open GL / Linux take a look at the below link, it might just be an interesting read: [url<]http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI0MDI[/url<] The Source engine and Unigine engine and both running very well under Linux with often just a compiler switch to produce a Linux binary. You can download Ubuntu for free and give Steam a try your self to see how things run. I think Valve are very focused on their vision for the Steam box and I can see it being very successful, the big picture mode works well for me and I consider myself quite a hard core games. The PC gaming industry could do with a shake up like the Steam box and an open and powerful platform such as Linux / Open GL is an excellent platform to build upon. I'm sure that once the Steam box is out there will be a Steam distro release that we can download and install.

      • Damage
      • 7 years ago

      Hmm. John, I’m very aware of OpenGL on Linux, and we did talk about Source engine-based games running in Linux.

      I think perhaps one of the cuts made in editing gave you the wrong impression. When we were talking about 720p vs. 1080p and such, we were mainly trying to puzzle through the GPU hardware costs involved in building a box to meet those targets. I wasn’t trying to make any statements about Linux graphics being slow or unequal to the task.

      Anyhow, that segment wasn’t great. Just listened to it a while ago myself. Apologies for that. We were all tired, it was unscripted, and we were trying to puzzle through the questions raised by the announcement. I think we got there eventually, but we rambled a bit. I hope folks skip ahead to the GPU segment instead. 🙂

        • ThorAxe
        • 7 years ago

        I thought you did a great job of explaining a complicated benchmarking process. This was one of the best podcasts you’ve done, I’ve already listened to it twice.

        I’m really looking forward to a GTX 680 vs 7970 GHz showdown with new drivers and would also like to see how they now perform in BF3.

      • indeego
      • 7 years ago

      That list of supported games isn’t even .1% of all steam/Windows games. Quite the struggle they have going on there. From what I can tell OSX has not had a resurgence in gaming since Steam jumped on it.

      Performance means jack shizznizzle. BeOS had great performance in multimedia. Amiga in games. PS3. Those platforms did not own their markets. It takes more than performance or eye-candy features to win markets.

      • ThorAxe
      • 7 years ago

      720p is more than you get for most console games, which is why the comparison was made. I don’t think it had anything to do with the capabilities of Linux.

      • Arclight
      • 7 years ago

      Rabid Linux fan much? I understood quite well that they were trying to make an educated guess regarding the costs/performance of the hardware that might be used for the Steambox and correlating that to a target resolution. I sensed no ill intent to disinform listeners regarding the performance that can be achieved on Linux.

      Regarding performance, i think this is redudant, since so far we don’t have a clear sign that all the major developers will follow Valve and port their games on Linux…….for now we are waiting while Valve is testing the waters.

      • madgun
      • 7 years ago

      I think you took Scott’s comments in a totally different light. His viewpoint was more about performance per dollar than anything Linux oriented. Please listen to that segment again and you’ll understand what he was talking about. On the other hand, game publishers will have to join the ranks with Linux development if steam box is to be a worthy evolution of PC gaming. Most of the readers already know what Linux can do and the openness it presents!

    • flip-mode
    • 7 years ago

    Re: Corsair M60: I *need* an ambidextrous mouse. I switch mouse hands frequently to avoid RSI/tendinitis. It blows my mind how completely incapable most people are of doing this – put the mouse in their left hand and they’re completely crippled.

      • axeman
      • 7 years ago

      maybe you can flip to left mode easily, but that’s just because you’re special

        • superjawes
        • 7 years ago

        I could probably do it for web browsing without too much trouble, but I would have to switch left and right click and mirror the cursor.

          • flip-mode
          • 7 years ago

          I do invert the buttons when I switch hands. Actually, I just noticed my home mouse is in the left hand position while my work mouse is in the right hand position. I guess I don’t notice unless I think about it for some reason.

          When I gamed I always used the right hand, though.

            • superjawes
            • 7 years ago

            Yeah, that kind of gets righties (and lefties) stuck using the right hand on that front. Pretty hard to use a right-handed gaming mouse with your left hand…

            • lilbuddhaman
            • 7 years ago

            I did it for 3 years and gave me arthritis in my wrist and 2 fingers. Would not suggest.

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