Intel’s P4 XE 3.46GHz processor and 925XE chipset

WHAT CAN I SAY about the Pentium 4 Extreme Edition processor? It’s a stranger in a strange land, an anomaly in the desktop processor world, a thousand-dollar CPU inhabiting a world of sub-$1K computers. The technology comes from the Intel’s high-end server products, a Xeon processor core dubbed Gallatin with 2MB of on-chip L3 cache.

Le-vel-three.

That’s in addition to the L1 and L2 caches you’ll find on normal Pentium 4s. Not only that, but the Extreme Edition is based on older technology; the Gallatin core is derived from the Pentium 4 “Northwood” design that powered the P4’s successful run between 2GHz and 3GHz over the past couple of years. Newer P4s are based on the 90nm “Prescott” core, a substantially redesigned processor that offers higher performance in some cases and lower in others.

Intel today is launching a new version of the Pentium 4 Extreme Edition, and because it’s not based on the Prescott core, it lacks certain new features, such as support for SSE3 instructions. What it does have, however, is one very important attribute: the ability to run on a 1066MHz bus. The new P4 Extreme Edition’s partner in crime is the Intel 925XE Express chipset, a slightly tweaked version of the 925X Express chipset that also allows for a 1066MHz front-side bus, up from 800MHz. This faster bus should remove a key bottleneck, allowing the CPU to talk to dual channels of 533MHz DDR2 memory with the benefit of symmetry. (533MHz times two, you see, is 1066MHz. Clever, no?)

The big question about this new Extreme Edition processor is whether a faster bus alone can bring its performance into truly extreme territory. The new CPU runs at 3.46GHz, only up 66MHz from the 3.4GHz version that preceded it. Well, OK, 66.6666666666667MHz, to be exact. In our last CPU review, the Extreme Edition 3.4GHz was exposed like Ashlee Simpson on SNL. The regular ol’ Pentium 4 560 at 3.6GHz—a product that costs less than half the price—often outperformed the Extreme Edition 3.4GHz, and AMD’s range of Athlon 64 processors absolutely embarrassed the Pentium 4s in our gaming tests. Doom 3 was playing, but the P4’s lips weren’t moving. Can the Extreme Edition’s massive cache, fast DDR2 memory, and a faster system bus restore some of the luster to Intel’s flagship product? We’re about to find out.

The new chip and set
The new P4 Extreme Edition comes in a pin-free package, ready to slide into a newfangled LGA775 CPU socket where the pins are on the motherboard. That makes the P4 Extreme Edition a fairly sturdy bit of hardware compared to most CPUs. Let’s give it the extreme close-up treatment.


The P4 Extreme Edition 3.4GHz processor.

If you look closely at the picture, you can see the tiny indentations in the gold contact pads on the underside of the CPU where the pins of the LGA775 socket have made contact. Funky, huh? Having used LGA775 for a while now, I’m still not 100% sure about its sturdiness over the long haul, but my initial positive impressions remain largely confirmed. Handle it carefully, and the thing just works. Bust something, and in this case, you’ve gotta replace a $200 motherboard instead of a $1000 processor. Not a bad trade-off, all things considered.

The 925XE Express core logic chipset mated to the new Extreme Edition is just a tweaked version of the 925X Express, but that’s no bad thing. Intel’s 900-series chipsets are easily the most advanced core logic silicon available today, with support for a range of new technologies and standards, including PCI Express, DDR2 memory, Intel High Definition Audio, and advanced Serial ATA storage. If you’re not already familiar with the 900-series Express chipsets, you owe it to yourself to go read our review of them. Intel has revamped large swaths of the PC platform with these chipsets. A number of companies are preparing core logic chipsets for the Athlon 64 that include support for PCI Express and some of the other new standards in the Intel 900 series, but it looks like none of them will support the full spectrum of new goodies like Intel. Also, those chipsets haven’t quite arrived yet, so the Pentium 4 is currently your only choice for PCI Express.

A bus with only one seat?
One of the most surprising things about the new Extreme Edition processor is that it stands alone as the only Pentium 4 capable of running on a 1066MHz bus. This is a unique situation for Intel; in the past, the company has traditionally rolled out a new bus speed across most of its desktop processors in one stroke. Not so here.

I was puzzled by this decision, so I asked an Intel PR rep about the rationale behind it. He said the 1066MHz bus would not make its way to regular Prescott-based Pentium 4s, at least through the end of 2004, for three reasons. First, Intel wants the faster bus speed to be a product differentiator for the Extreme Edition CPU. Second, it takes time to ramp volume on new products with faster bus speeds. Third, Intel “can’t just magically” make all CPUs work properly at a 1066MHz front-side bus.

I believe this is an example of the time-honored PR tradition of listing one’s reasons in ascending order of importance. More likely than not, the 1066MHz bus will be confined to Extreme Edition processors because not all Prescott-based P4s are happy on a higher frequency bus. The fact that the Extreme Edition is still based on an older CPU core is telling. If Intel could roll out a 1066MHz bus across its entire Pentium 4 line without too much pain, I believe the company would do so sooner rather than later.

Whatever the case, the new Extreme Edition is the only P4 with official support for a 1066MHz bus, and the very nice Intel D925XECV2 mobo wouldn’t oblige our attempts to run a Prescott CPU on a 1066MHz FSB. I expect the first wave of 925XE motherboards from Taiwan will be more obliging, opening up some interesting overclocking possibilities for lower-end P4 chips.

Anyhow, that’s for another day. For now, let’s see how the new Extreme Edition performs.

 

Test notes
Please note that several of our test CPUs are actually underclocked versions of other products. Specifically, the Pentium 4 model 540 and 550 entries are actually our Pentium 4 560 3.6GHz engineering sample, which came with an unlocked multiplier for testing at different speeds, running at 3.2 and 3.4GHz, respectively. Similarly, the 130nm version of the Athlon 64 3500+ is a down-clocked Athlon 64 3800+, and our Athlon 64 3200+ results were achieved by testing the 90nm Athlon 64 3500+ at 2.0GHz. For most intents and purposes, save perhaps for our power consumption tests, these underclocked processors should perform just like the real McCoys.

Our testing methods
As ever, we did our best to deliver clean benchmark numbers. Tests were run at least twice, and the results were averaged.

Our test systems were configured like so:

Processor Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0GHz (S939)
Athlon 64 3500+ 2.2GHz (90nm)
Athlon 64 3500+ 2.2GHz (130nm)
Athlon 64 3800+ 2.4GHz
Athlon 64 4000+ 2.4GHz
Athlon 64 FX-55 2.6GHz
Pentium 4 540 3.2GHz
Pentium 4 550 3.4GHz
Pentium 4 560 3.6GHz
Pentium 4 Extreme Edition 3.4GHz
Pentium 4 Extreme Edition 3.46GHz
System bus 1GHz HyperTransport 800MHz (200MHz quad-pumped) 1066MHz (266MHz quad-pumped)
Motherboard Asus A8V Deluxe Abit AA8 DuraMax Intel D925XECV2
BIOS revision 1008 beta 1 1.4 CV92510A.86A.0338
North bridge K8T800 Pro 925X MCH 925XE MCH
South bridge VT8237 ICH6R ICH6R
Chipset drivers 4-in-1 v.1.11 beta (9/7/04) INF Update 6.0.1.1002
IAA for RAID 4.5.0.6515
INF Update 6.0.1.1002
IAA for RAID 4.5.0.6515
Memory size 1GB (2 DIMMs) 1GB (2 DIMMs) 1GB (2 DIMMs)
Memory type OCZ PC3200 EL DDR SDRAM at 400MHz OCZ PC2 5300 DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz OCZ PC2 5300 DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz
CAS latency 2 3 3
Cycle time 5 10 10
RAS to CAS delay 2 3 3
RAS precharge 2 3 3
Hard drive Maxtor MaXLine III 250GB SATA 150
Audio Integrated VT8237/ALC850 with 3.64 drivers Integrated ICH6R/ALC880 with 5.10.0.5022 drivers Integrated ICH6R/ALC880 with 5.10.0.5032 drivers
InGraphics GeForce 6800 GT 256MB AGP with ForceWare 66.81 drivers GeForce 6800 GT 256MB PCI-E with ForceWare 66.81 drivers GeForce 6800 GT 256MB PCI-E with ForceWare 66.81 drivers
OS Microsoft Windows XP Professional
OS updates Service Pack 2, DirectX 9.0c

All tests on the Intel systems were run with Hyper-Threading enabled.

Thanks to OCZ for providing us with memory for our testing. If you’re looking to tweak out your system to the max and maybe overclock it a little, OCZ’s RAM is definitely worth considering.

The test systems’ Windows desktops were set at 1152×864 in 32-bit color at an 85Hz screen refresh rate. Vertical refresh sync (vsync) was disabled for all tests.

We used the following versions of our test applications:

The tests and methods we employ are generally publicly available and reproducible. If you have questions about our methods, hit our forums to talk with us about them.

 
Memory performance
The 1066MHz bus on the Extreme Edition ought to allow for more memory bandwidth. Does it deliver?

Yes, the P4 Extreme Edition 3.46GHz (dubbed the P4 XE 3.46GHz in our graphs) gets a nice bump in Sandra memory bandwidth. However, look at the Cachemem results, and you can see how the P4 Prescott’s more aggressive prefetching of data into the L2 cache produces better bandwidth scores, even on an 800MHz bus. This is one reason I’d like to see a Prescott with a 1066MHz bus; I think maybe the Prescott could take better advantage of it.

Linpack shows us, visually, how the P4 Extreme Edition’s copious on-chip cache dwarfs that of all competitors. With data matrix sizes up to 2MB, calculations are performed almost entirely in L2 cache, where they are very quick.

I should mention, though, that the P4 Extreme Edition’s total effective cache size is 2MB, even though the chip has an 8K L1 data cache, a 512K L2 cache, and a 2MB L2 cache. Intel’s cache hierarchy is not exclusive, so total effective cache size isn’t additive. The L2 cache mirrors the contents of the L1 data cache, and the L3 cache mirrors the contents of the L2. This arrangement is distinct from the exclusive caches on recent AMD processors, where a 128K L1 data cache and 1024K L2 cache would lead to a total effective cache size of 1152K.

The faster bus on the Extreme Edition shows a small but measurable improvement in our memory access latency benchmark. Let’s look at this effect in more detail with our fancy 3D graphs.

 
Memory performance (continued)
Here’s a slightly indulgent look at memory access latencies in more detail. If the following intimidates you, just skip to the next page with the gaming results. Remember, though, to flip back here if the boss is looking over your shoulder.

I’ve colored the data series below according to how they correspond to different parts of the memory subsystem. Yellow is L1 cache, light orange is L2 cache, and orange is main memory. The red series, if present, represents L3 cache. Of course, caches sometimes overlap, so the colors are just an interesting visual guide.

The new Extreme Edition takes less time getting to main memory than any of the other Pentium 4 chips, as one might expect. That allows it to close the gap slightly with the Athlon 64, but the AMD chips’ on-die memory controller is very tough to beat.

 

Doom 3
Let’s get right down to the gaming results now with Doom 3. We tested using a custom-recorded demo that should be fairly representative of most of the single-player gameplay in Doom 3.

The faster bus gives the P4 Extreme Edition a boost, but it’s only enough to bring it up to speed with the Athlon 64 3200+, not nearly enough to make it competitive at the high end.

Far Cry
Our Far Cry demo takes place on the Pier level, in one of those massive, open outdoor areas so common in this game. Vegetation is dense, and view distances can be very long.

Far Cry’s the same tune in a different key. The new Extreme Edition is a little bit faster, but nothing like it needs to be in order to catch the Athlon 64s.

 

Counter-Strike: Source
This is a final, release version of Counter-Strike: Source that we’re using, available for purchase via Valve’s Steam distribution system. Our demo game takes place on the cs_italy map.

The new bus yields an extra 3 frames per second, on average, in CS: Source, but that little boost is enough to move the Extreme Edition ahead of the A64 3500+.

Unreal Tournament 2004
Our UT2004 demo shows yours truly putting the smack down on some bots in an Onslaught game.

The move to a 1066MHz bus doesn’t help much in a UT2004 timedemo benchmark.

However, could the picture change during actual gameplay? Some folks from Intel have suggested to us that we should consider testing gameplay performance with the FRAPS frame rate capture program instead of relying on an in-game benchmarking function. The suggestion makes some sense, because timedemo playback tools don’t always use every aspect of the game engine, such as physics, A.I., and user input routines.

I tried using FRAPS with a couple of games, including Doom 3 and Rome: Total War, but frame rate caps in those games prevented us from being able to show meaningful performance differences between different processors. UT2004, which is very much a CPU-bound game, was a different story. The results below are the averaged from five different 150-second gaming sessions played on the same Onslaught map as in our timedemo above, ONS-Torlan. I was playing against computer-controlled bots, so UT2004’s A.I. was working overtime.

Somewhat surprisingly, the results track very, very closely with the frame rates in our timedemo above. The Extreme Edition 3.46GHz still produces a lower average frame rate than the A64 3500+, but the all-important frame rate minimum is higher on the Extreme Edition, so it probably produces a slightly smoother gaming experience overall.

On a wholly subjective front, I noticed a couple of differences between CPUs while playing through these Onslaught matches. One, playing with the Athlon 64 FX-55 was smooth as glass. I could feel the difference between it and the processors in the middle of the pack. Two, the lower end processors, especially the lower speed P4 Prescotts, felt a little sluggish at points—nothing too distracting, but the game was a little choppy sometimes.

Before we move on, we tried one more thing with UT2004. We tested CPU performance using its software renderer, just to see what would happen.

For software rendering, the P4 Extreme Edition is tops.

 

3DMark05

The 1066MHz bus allows the Extreme Edition 3.46Ghz to perform quite a bit better in 3DMark05’s two CPU tests, bringing its overall CPU score up above the Athlon 64 3800+.

 

WorldBench overall performance
WorldBench uses scripting to step through a series of tasks in common Windows applications. Also like those benchmarks, WorldBench produces an overall score for comparison. More impressively, WorldBench spits out individual results for its component application tests, allowing us to compare performance in each. We’ll look at the overall score, and then we’ll show individual application results alongside the results from some of our own application tests.

Overall, the P4s perform better, in relative terms, in Worldbench’s suite of applications than they did in our gaming tests. The new Extreme Edition just outdoes the Athlon 64 3800+.

Audio editing and encoding

LAME MP3 encoding
We used LAME to encode a 101MB 16-bit, 44KHz audio file into a very high-quality MP3. The exact command-line options we used were:

lame –alt-preset extreme file.wav file.mp3

MusicMatch Jukebox

In both apps, the Extreme Edition 3.46GHz is among the fastest processors for audio encoding.

 

Video encoding and editing

XMPEG DivX video encoding
We used the default settings for the DivX codec to encode a 3000-frame sequence from a DVD-formatted MPEG2 source file.

Windows Media Encoder

Adobe Premiere

VideoWave Movie Creator

The P4 XE 3.46GHz is at or near the top in three of our four video tests, but it’s near the bottom in Adobe Premiere video editing, oddly enough. Still, the P4 XE’s overall video encoding and editing performance is excellent.

 

Image processing

Adobe Photoshop

ACDSee PowerPack

picCOLOR
We thank Dr. Reinert Muller with the FIBUS Institute for pointing us toward his picCOLOR benchmark. This image analysis and processing tool is partially multithreaded, and it shows us the results of a number of simple image manipulation calculations. We’re using a new build of picCOLOR this time out; it removes the video tests, which are highly dependent on the chipset and video card, from the calculation of the overall score.

The P4 XE 3.46GHz is middle of the pack, all told, in our image processing tests. The P4 Prescott 3.6GHz processor outdoes the XE 3.46GHz in ACDSee and picCOLOR, and the Athlon 64 FX-55 takes the top spot in all three apps.

 

Multitasking and office applications

MS Office

WorldBench’s MS Office test runs a the various components of the Office suite simulataneously and switches between them, as most users would. The Pentium 4 CPUs surpass the Athlons here, probably in part thanks to the Hyper-Threading capabilities of the Pentium 4.

Mozilla

Mozilla and Windows Media Encoder

The Athlon 64s easily outrun the Pentium 4s in the Mozilla test, but when you add a Windows Media Encoder session to the mix for some intensive multitasking, the P4 XE comes roaring back to take the second spot, just a hair behind the FX-55.

 

Other applications

Sphinx speech recognition
Ricky Houghton first brought us the Sphinx benchmark through his association with speech recognition efforts at Carnegie Mellon University. Sphinx is a high-quality speech recognition routine. We use two different versions, built with two different compilers, in an attempt to ensure we’re getting the best possible performance.

Sphinx is a case where the Prescott’s design tweaks overcome the Extreme Edition’s additional cache and faster bus speed. The P4 XE is fairly competitive here, but it’s slower than its cheaper cousins.

WinZip

WinZip is like Sphinx in that the Prescott chips do relatively well here The XE 3.46GHz is no slouch, but it takes third in a tough field.

Nero

The Nero test is all about the disk controller, and in this case, the Intel ICH6 chip handily beats the VIA disk controller on our Athlon 64 test rig. CPU speed, as you can see, isn’t really a factor here.

 

Cinebench 2003
Cinebench is based on Maxon’s Cinema 4D modeling, rendering, and animation app. This revision of Cinebench measures performance in a number of ways, including 3D rendering, software shading, and OpenGL shading with and without hardware acceleration. Cinema 4D’s renderer is multithreaded, so it takes advantage of Hyper-Threading, as you can see in the results.

The P4 XE 3.46GHz just edges out its predecessor in Cinebench, taking top honors.

The shading tests are little rougher going for the Extreme Edition. The Prescotts do best in Cinema 4D shading, and Athlon 64s capture the top three spots in the OpenGL shading benchmarks.

 

3ds max
We have used 3ds max in the past for CPU testing, but most of those tests have consisted of rendering only. WorldBench’s 3ds max tests replicate an entire modeling and animation work session, stressing the graphics card as well as the CPU and the rest of the system.

The XE 3.46GHz is the class of the Pentium 4 processors, but the AMDs again do best here.

POV-Ray
POV-Ray is the granddaddy of PC ray-tracing renderers, and it’s not multithreaded in the least, because it’s designed to be a cross-platform application. POV-Ray also relies more heavily on x87 FPU instructions to do its work, and it contains only minor SIMD optimizations.

As expected, without many SSE, SSE2, or multithreading optimizations, the P4s don’t fare all that well.

 

Power consumption
Our power consumption results for the Athlon 64 processors were marred by that fact that the CPU voltage option on our Asus A8V Deluxe motherboard wasn’t actually functional. We could set the proper voltage for each CPU in the BIOS, but no matter what, both the AsusProbe monitoring software and CPU-Z reported 1.6V for the CPU. It’s possible this problem was caused by the revision 1008 beta 1 BIOS we were using, but that BIOS was necessary for compatibility with the 90nm Athlon 64. This problem was exacerbated by the fact that the A8V Deluxe is the only motherboard we had on hand that would POST with a 90nm Athlon 64 processor. As a result, all of the readings you’ll see below were taken with the CPU voltage at 1.6V (although we did set the proper value on the BIOS for each processor). Generally, 130nm Athlon 64s are supposed to run at 1.5V, and the 90nm flavors expect 1.4V. Take the results as you will, or ignore them if they offend your precise sensibilities.

The Pentium 4 is more complicated, because voltage specs for Prescott processors are set at the factory and may vary from one CPU to the next. The general expectation is about 1.4V, and we used the closest manual setting on our Abit AA8 DuraMax mobo, which was 1.3875V. The P4 Extreme Edition 3.4GHz ran at 1.575V, and we let the Intel mobo pick the default voltage for the P4 XE 3.46GHz.

We measured the power consumption of our entire test systems, except for the monitor, at the wall outlet using a Watts Up PRO watt meter. The test rigs were all equipped with OCZ PowerStream 470W power supply units. Ambient temps in Damage Labs were down in the low 70s, close to a sane room temperature. The idle results were measured at the Windows desktop, and we used Cinebench’s rendering test to load up the CPUs. For P4s, we used the multithreaded version of Cinebench to take advantage of Hyper-Threading.

The P4 XE 3.46GHz benefits from its P4 Northwood heritage; its power consumption at is lower than the Prescott chips, although not by much.

 

Overclocking
The overclocking function on the Intel mobo we used for testing was fairly limited. We couldn’t adjust CPU voltage, and it would only overclock the CPU by a maximum of 10%. I was able to coax another 180MHz out of the P4 XE, bringing it up to 3.64GHz. Unfortunately, I had to back way off on the memory timings, from 3-3-3-8 to 4-4-4-12, in order to get the system stable.

No dramatic gains here. However, a motherboard with better overclocking options might yield better results.

 
Conclusions
The Pentium 4 Extreme Edition 3.46GHz will list for $999. Our range of benchmarks shows that it’s a marginally better performer than its predecessor, the 3.4GHz XE with an 800MHz bus. In many cases, the fastest Pentium 4 of all is the P4 560 3.6GHz, which sells for well under half the price of the Extreme Edition 3.46GHz. And the undisputed overall performance king of the x86 CPU world is the Athlon 64 FX-55, which sells for an also ridiculous but comparatively cheaper $827.

In short, I don’t recommend buying this CPU. I’m pleased to see Intel going to extraordinary lengths to push the boundaries of performance at the high end of its desktop CPU line up. That is a very cool, very welcome development. Still, this processor isn’t a good deal by any stretch of the imagination, and it doesn’t really live up to its billing as the most “extreme performance” desktop CPU, especially for gaming. There’s really no way around that.

I’m also disappointed that the primary benefit of the P4 XE 3.46GHz, the move to a 1066MHz front-side bus, won’t trickle down to the rest of the Pentium 4 product line until some time next year. Usually, a new high-end CPU offers some benefit for the rest of the product line, either in terms of price or features. That’s not really the case here.

The 925XE chipset, on the other hand, could be a very interesting product. The chipset itself will list for $50, making it competitive with the 925X chipset. That’s reflected in the fact that the Intel 925XE motherboard will cost the same as the 925X board it replaces. I’m not sure why anyone would buy a 925X-based board once the 925XE arrives, unless Intel decides to limit the number of XE chipsets that it ships.

The real action with the 925XE chipset will happen if we can pair it up with a lower-end Pentium 4 Prescott chip like the P4 520 2.8GHz and overclock the stuffing out of the thing by cranking the bus up to 1066MHz. If such overclocking feats offer a reasonably decent success rate, the 925XE may become a very hot commodity in the right circles. 

Comments closed
    • tfp
    • 15 years ago

    Would it be possible to get a P4e 2.8 crank the FSB up to 1066 with good cooling see how much the 1066 buss helps the newer core or even to 1000? Might help the Pressy core more then then older northwood.

    • d0g_p00p
    • 15 years ago

    Ok. I am going to stop posting when, one. I have been drinking and two when I first get up in the morning drinking my coffee. Yes I am an idiot.

    • LoneWolf15
    • 15 years ago

    Sounds like Intel really needs to drop the P4 design and go back to the drawing board on their next trip. Not only because they’ve apparently hit the glass ceiling on the design, but because the design started with a desire to put clockspeed as the most important issue, with less regard to the efficiency of a higher instructions-per-clock design. Ars Technica has a great series of articles regarding the Pentium design history from the beginning to the present that illustrates this really well.

    • DrDillyBar
    • 15 years ago

    Too bad, I thought 1066FSB would help the EE out.

    • crose
    • 15 years ago

    Probably won’t be any exciting x86 CPU releases until the dual cores arrives next year.

      • Proesterchen
      • 15 years ago

      Dual cores will be fun – I expect the high-end ones to lose the games benches to the $120 Sempron of it time.

        • Krogoth
        • 15 years ago

        I doubt that, if anything the Sempron will be just as fast in single-threaded apps as the dual-core K8s. Dual core CPU’s main advanage is multi-tasking prowess for the masses. Which was exclusive to power users and professionals due to costs of larger motherboards, PSUs and cases. Dual-core CPUs will reap the benefits of multi-threaded apps that are coming down the pipe in the next five years. BTW the current 3100+ Semprons are certainly no slouchs in gaming benches.

        Parallelism is the foreseeible future of personal computing unless, AMD and Intel switch over to Galldium or Diamond as a semiconductor base. Which is still a couple of years away due to intrastructure and R&D costs.

          • jdevers
          • 15 years ago

          Read what he wrote again…he agrees with you, just in a sarcastic way πŸ˜‰

          • kvndoom
          • 15 years ago

          Word up on the Sempr0ns! When the 2.0 GHz version (3300+?) comes out next year, I’m dumping my A64 3000 for it. I can’t even get a 150 MHz overclock outta mine. Seeing Xbit hit 2.5 GHz with a $100 CPU almost made me cry. My mobo has a 250 FSB limit, so I need a CPU with a x10 multiplier, not the x9 the current S754 Sempr0n has.

            • d0g_p00p
            • 15 years ago

            that sucks, see my ealier post. I got up to 2.45Ghz out of my 3000+ 10x multi at 230FSB on air cooling (thermalright). This is on a Asus K8N-E Deluxe board.

            • apsog33
            • 15 years ago

            10 x 230 doesn’t equal 2450.

            • vortigern_red
            • 15 years ago

            LOL, I’m sure your A64 is running pretty fast, but I’m also sure you are unsure just what it is running at! πŸ˜‰

            Suffice to say it is almost certainly running faster than my early A64 3000+ (2.1Ghz), as mine is the first stepping and I have no AGP/PCI locks on my board. I’m now weighing up whether to just get a 2.4Ghz 3400 (Β£160 and very easy and quick) or buy an Nforce3 250 S939 and a 3200+ (more expensive and a more time consuming install). I’m leaning towards the 3400+ to see me through to Dual core.

    • MadManOriginal
    • 15 years ago

    How many times will the folks at Intel be doomed to repeat their own history? They seem to masochistically take a process/generation/CPU architecture and expect to push it too far then have nothing as a next step ready to go to market for some time. It seems just like the end of the PIII era.

    Is it:
    Miscommunication from the engineers to the suits?
    Attempting to squeeze as much possible from their R&D investments?
    Institutional stubborness, once they’ve set down a path they won’t change even when it seems clear they’re at a dead-end?
    800-pound gorilla ignorance, in that they just feel they can make even a major misstep and it will be smoothed over?

    What surprises me is that they don’t really have a suitable replacement ready for end-of-generation products, P4-M (Dothan) aside since it’s really not a mainstream product. Surely they knew some time ago that the P4 architecture wouldn’t keep going higher. It will be fun to see what happens when their next product generation reaches the end of it’s run. πŸ˜‰

      • kvndoom
      • 15 years ago

      Regardless of their mistakes, they will still dominate the market for all the foreseeable future. Even though AMD has the superior product for at least a year, their market share will only increase marginally. Monopolies are hard to tumble, especially with brand recognition. Look at the number of major bugs in every version of Windows released in recent memory. Have people been defecting from MS en masse? Nope. People know windows, people know “Intel Inside.” Even if AMD dropped a 3 GHz bomb right now and blew away everything Intel has by insurmountable percentages, it still wouldn’t give them more than a few percentage points.

        • Krogoth
        • 15 years ago

        Dude, you got to thank Dell!

        • MadManOriginal
        • 15 years ago

        So you vote for the ‘800-pound gorilla’ option? :p

        It still doesn’t explain *why* they repeat the mistakes though, it just says that it won’t matter for them. Unless the Intel execs conciously think this way in which case they are pretty incompetent imo.

        Why AMD doesn’t do more marketing is beyond me as well.

          • kvndoom
          • 15 years ago

          Hardly. All my machines are AMD, and I intend for it to stay that way. Unfortunately Joe Blow doesn’t read TR or too many other hardware sites, but he DOES see them thar funny Intel commercials during his football game. And of course, if all Dell sells is Intel, and Dell is #1 in sales, well, that speaks for itself.

          Their mistakes are made out of both arrogance and pride (if those aren’t the same thing). They know they can get away with fuggups without losing any significant amount of revenue. But at the same time they’re willing to risk those fuggups just to saythat they have the best product. Right now they know they don’t have the best product and can’t produce the best product anymore by just ‘making it faster.’ So they’re trying to find other ways to say that they’re the best, but aren’t doing so well thus far.

            • MadManOriginal
            • 15 years ago

            I just wasn’t sure which option you picked, it does sound like you pick ‘800-pound gorilla’ though so I’m not sure why you say ‘Hardly.’ 0o

        • Decelerate
        • 15 years ago

        While i agree to the essence of your explanation, I believe it’s wrong to compare Intel to Microsoft in terms of dominance.

        Intel’s dominance can technically be broken by a market shift, while Microsoft’s one would require the equivalent of a leap of faith by the entire populace.

        Simply because hardware is based on an architecture that’s compatible to both, while Windows/Mac/Unix aren’t compatible.

        So essentially, if Intel suddently dissapeared from the face of the earth, anyone and everyone can move to AMD, while if windows dissapeared, the programmers will need some serious crunch time to rewrite everything to another standard.

      • bhtooefr
      • 15 years ago

      Nitpick: the P4-M is a Northwood. You’re thinking of the P-M.

    • crichards
    • 15 years ago

    Excellent review as always.

    <fx: lifts head from desk, reads 1000 thingy front-side something or other, extra 66MHz clock thing, head slams back on forearms, zzzzz>

    • samadhi
    • 15 years ago

    I am quite impressed that Intel’s latest gamer chip has managed to equal and sometimes even slightly surpass the performance of an A64 3500+ in the games benchmarks.

    • Proesterchen
    • 15 years ago

    Would it be very rude not to read this article? I mean, I’ve read two others already and all they introduce seems to be a certain urge to fall asleep.

    At least Intel was decent enough to launch this thing on a football sunday (just like Prescott back in the day, IIRC), I can’t imagine what these articles would do to work morale on a monday morning. πŸ˜‰

    Anyways, Intel’s fucked, now and for another 17 months, at least.

    @33, EEs are based on the Gallatin core (once developed for the Xeon MP product line) and feature 512 kB L2 and 2 MB L3 cache and yes, its release was a quick hack of a core already on hand.

    • spworley
    • 15 years ago

    I think I missed something.
    I always thought the EE chips had 2MB of L2 cache.
    But from this article, it seems like EE has 1MB L2, and 2MB L3.
    But the horrible part is that the L3 DUPLICATES the L2, thereby wasting half of it. Isn’t this scarily inefficient? (Actually the benchmarks show so). Why didn’t Intel just make a bigger L2? They’ve done it before (Dothan has 2MB L2). It makes the EE feel a lot more like a hack.

    • Rakhmaninov3
    • 15 years ago

    Is it just me, or is Intel getting the siht kicked out of it at the moment?

      • derFunkenstein
      • 15 years ago

      from a performance perspective, absolutely…from a financial perspective, notsomuch…

        • indeego
        • 15 years ago

        Which means Intel still is doing almost everything right, and AMD isn’tg{<.<}g

          • Occupant
          • 15 years ago

          Yes, its rather sad. But all over the computer industery, its not the top line manufactures that make money, but the second rung guys who dont make high performance parts, but rather make mid-line or low-end stuff for note books, or office PCs…

          The bulk of PCs sold today, are probably on the bottom 1/2 of the performance spectrum.

    • DeadlyFreeze
    • 15 years ago

    Whats with the game fps benches? I mean doom is scoring in the triple digits, and CS:S and UT arnt?

    That dosent seem right, an athlon +3800 with a 6800GT only avergaing 66 fps at 640×480? wtf???

    • spworley
    • 15 years ago

    #28, that’s the 90nm version?
    Woah!

      • d0g_p00p
      • 15 years ago

      Err. super typo, sorry. 2.45Ghz, not 3.45Ghz.

        • vortigern_red
        • 15 years ago

        /[<(230FSB@15x)<]/ Was this a typo as well? you can not hit, even, 2.45 on an A64 3000+ at 230FSB without unlocked higher multipliers.

          • d0g_p00p
          • 15 years ago

          yes, I am stupid. It was a late night posting on spooknight, right after a party.

    • UberGerbil
    • 15 years ago

    ………………………..

    • Samlind
    • 15 years ago

    I thought #18 was funnier.

    • CM
    • 15 years ago

    Nice review. I heard this was a good place from Carl over at hCw. Now I have another place to get my info. Looks like I will be getting that 90nm 3500 I have had my eyes on.

    • Ruiner
    • 15 years ago

    1994 called and it wants its cpu price structure back.

      • Krogoth
      • 15 years ago

      Only a rich fool who get ether a P4EE or FX55. Right now, the best performance deal for ether party is the A64 3500+ and P4E 3.4Ghz.

      The good days of cheap, highly overclockible AXPs paring up with a NF2 board are over, just get over it. If you want something current on the cheap that can OC decently then get the A64 3000 or 3200 S939 with a NF3 250 board.

        • d0g_p00p
        • 15 years ago

        I agree somewhat. We got spoiled with the AXP2500+and NF2 combos. Those were great OC combos, as well as the 2.4C P4 and so on. Those CPU/MoBo combos were along the lines of the great P133 @ 166@83FSB and Celeron 300A/BX combos. However the current A64’s still shine, for instance right now I am sitting happy with my A64 3000+ sitting at 3.45Ghz (on air) on a NF3 250gb. That is sweet.

        The OC goodness is still there, you just have to look. Right now overclocking is getting pointless because the CPU’s are getting so fast and cheap, it’s almost not even worth it. I did not even think to OC this CPU, but I decided to see what it could do. I just hit this number on the first try (230FSB@15x) and let it stick.

          • Chryx
          • 15 years ago

          Could we get some benchmarks from that plz?

          • vortigern_red
          • 15 years ago

          When did the A64 get an unlocked multiplier? for higher multipliers obviously I mean. Have I missed something somewhere?

            • derFunkenstein
            • 15 years ago

            Athlon64 FX is completely unlocked, everything else is just open to lower speeds.

            • Krogoth
            • 15 years ago

            Thanks to Cool and Quiet. πŸ˜‰

        • Ruiner
        • 15 years ago

        Those days aren’t really gone. An overclocked Sempron K8 3100 will get you within 10-15% of the performance of the uberexpensive chips. They’ve been priced as low as $100 recently, and will probably drop to 80-90 once they start coming out in .09 micron.

    • Hance
    • 15 years ago

    i really expected the 1066FSB to help more than it did . oh well it makes the 90nano 939 3000+ i just ordered look all the better .

    • Captain AMD
    • 15 years ago

    *Insert lame-assed “I wonder if I could heat my room with this chip” joke.
    Hmm, what else, how about some half-brained Intel conspiracy theory.
    Now lets sing the praises of AMD and how the world is a better place because of their holy shining example.*

      • Convert
      • 15 years ago

      Ha

      • Shining Arcanine
      • 15 years ago

      Currently I heat my room with my 2.4GHz P4 Revision C.

      • Krogoth
      • 15 years ago

      P4EEs are Galltain based chips which even at 3.46Ghz they still generates less heat then 3.4Ghz Prescotts.

    • Lucky Jack Aubrey
    • 15 years ago

    I’m underwhelmed. Outstanding review, though, as per usual.

    • spworley
    • 15 years ago

    One interesting point this review makes.. the P4 560 3.6GHz is the one Intel CPU to get. That’s still expensive, but it’s arguably better than this topped-out EE, and the 560 costs half as much.
    The other observation is that this really is evidence that Intel’s topped out its CPUs, the current P4 architecture has hit the limits and Intel is (rightly) moving onto a replacement designs.. But we don’t expect to see anything faster for likely a YEAR (!).

      • Krogoth
      • 15 years ago

      C’mon dual-core Dothan, it’s Intel’s only hope against AMD’s K8 in the performance arena. πŸ˜‰

      Intel shouldn’t be worrying anyway, they still have a very strong influence on the mainstream market. Which is where they make most of their dough. Althought, the Server/Workstation segment is getting some pressure from the Opteron line.

    • ieya
    • 15 years ago

    endersdouble – basically, she got caught out lipsynching on Saturday Night Live. Duly ‘covered’ this by doing the world’s weirdest dance, before vanishing offstage, and finally at the end of the show blaming her band for playing the wrong song.

    All the more embarrassing when she was on record previously with this:

    y[http://www.collegehumor.com/news/ashlee_snl.wmv<]Β§

    • endersdouble
    • 15 years ago

    ashlee simpson? Can someone fill me in here?

    And frankly, I’m quite glad to see AMD’s continued pwnage.

    • Samlind
    • 15 years ago

    Intel is about cached out.

    IANACD, but if bolting on that much cache (yes it’s not a Prescott, I know) results in almost no advatage then they are at the end of the road technically with that chip. Where’s the headroom? What advantage did you get for the huge area on chip devoted to that huge cache? Wonderful Linpack scores? There’s no advantage of any significance in a desktop environment for such a beast, Scott’s data makes that clear. This chip belongs in a server.

    Intel should be embarassed.

    • vortigern_red
    • 15 years ago

    Typo’s page 3:

    /[

    • dragmor
    • 15 years ago

    P4 EE is looking like a fools errand in marketing.

    Since every A64 I’ve built (7 on NF3-250) can reach a 265FSB(most hit 290) and the price difference on RAM speeds is dropping why doesn’t AMD release a A64 with 250FSB?

    Give them a speed advantage without effecting yields.

    • Convert
    • 15 years ago

    Ehhh…. I was expecting more from the little piece of silicon. Good article of course.

    Would have been interesting to oc the 3.4xe another 66mhz and see how it did.

    • lyc
    • 15 years ago

    66.6666666666667mhz isn’t really exact, but the rest of the review was very well done!

    still a very happy a64 owner though πŸ˜‰

    • derFunkenstein
    • 15 years ago

    Intel intentionally releases stuff that won’t live up to the hype at times that are really perplexing…remember the Prescott release? Today’s isn’t THAT weird, but it’s still odd considering it’s sunday afternoon.

    • UberGerbil
    • 15 years ago

    I wonder what is really going on with Intel and the Norman Conquest bus speed? Clearly there’s some kind of problem, or they would have moved everything over by now. It’s also odd that they’ve decided to debut it with such a niche product. Surely Xeon systems would benefit more from the bus speed increase, and would sell in higher volumes besides.

    Curiouser and curiouser.

      • DreadCthulhu
      • 15 years ago

      Intel might not be able to get enough chips running with a 1066 bus to meet Xeon demand. Or possibly, the chips are stable enough with the 1066 bus for the not-so bright gamers with too much cash that is the Extreme Edition’s main market, but not stable enough for the server & workstations you see in the Xeons sold for.

        • UberGerbil
        • 15 years ago

        Yeah, I thought of those, and more besides. They’re all plausible but what I want to know is: what’s the real problem? If you got an Intel architect’s dangly bits in a vise and got him to tell you the whole story, what would it be?

    • Usacomp2k3
    • 15 years ago

    excellent review….too bad it doesn’t do very well…i’m a little surprised actually, i really thought the 1066 would help more…oh well

      • UberGerbil
      • 15 years ago

      Not that big of a surprise. It would help a regular P4 more. The L3 cache is going to hide a lot of the advantage of the bus speed in anything but streaming apps.

    • Usacomp2k3
    • 15 years ago

    woot woot…been waiting for it…gunna start reading it now

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